TromboneChat

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:49 am**

I was going to sign up for part 5, but there are two bars 117 and 118 that have a very high B flat in them. I don't think I can get higher than a high F. I'll have a go and see if I can push my range.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:19 am**

Thanks a lot for preparing everything!

I have seen that quite a few parts are not covered yet. If needed, I could try to record more than one.

Until when do you want to have the recordings?

And again, as I am not sure how to exactly do this and until now only did audio recording: Is it okay to provide separate files for video and audio so that you would then put them together? Or should I somehow merge the files myself? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:47 am**

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:31 am Thank you. I'll start working on this immediately. A=440 right?

Yep, A440.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:55 am**

Hey guys (and ladies).

Before you get too excited and start making videos, give me a day or 2 to create a backup track. Having everyone clap together at a point sometime before the music starts is an important part of getting all the videos lined up.

And if you want to do your video an audio separately, that's fine. I can combine them. In fact, if you have a good microphone or Zoom or some other type of recording device, that will sound a lot better than a smart phone mic. What I do is record to my computer using an AT 2020 USB mic. I can stop and start as needed if I make a mistake. Then I do a video of myself playing along to the recording. That takes the pressure off of having to do a perfect video.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:22 am**

MStarke wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:19 am Thanks a lot for preparing everything!

I have seen that quite a few parts are not covered yet. If needed, I could try to record more than one.

Let's wait and see on that. I suspect that all the parts will be covered soon enough.

Until when do you want to have the recordings?

No rush. Let's shoot for by Thanksgiving.

And again, as I am not sure how to exactly do this and until now only did audio recording: Is it okay to provide separate files for video and audio so that you would then put them together? Or should I somehow merge the files myself? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:52 am**

Looks like a blast - I'll jump in!

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:20 pm**

^ I'll also hop in.
I probably won't have time to record in the next few weeks as we're wrapping up our semester and there are about a million things to practice and record.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:59 pm**

Having trouble downloading my part. I get Server Errors.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:05 pm**

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:59 pm Having trouble downloading my part. I get Server Errors.

Just emailed it to you.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:19 pm**

nogginbone wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:49 am I was going to sign up for part 5, but there are two bars 117 and 118 that have a very high B flat in them. I don't think I can get higher than a high F. I'll have a go and see if I can push my range.

Not in Tenor 5 (I just downloaded it). Which part do you have? I'll swap with you.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:38 pm**

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:19 pm Not in Tenor 5 (I just downloaded it). Which part do you have? I'll swap with you.

In the tenor 5 that I downloaded from here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... Qrmu-rf9O2

there are two very high B flats 4 lines above the stave. I can just about reach them.

Is this the right folder to download from?

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:51 pm**

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:19 pm
nogginbone wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:49 am I was going to sign up for part 5, but there are two bars 117 and 118 that have a very high B flat in them. I don't think I can get higher than a high F. I'll have a go and see if I can push my range.
Not in Tenor 5 (I just downloaded it). Which part do you have? I'll swap with you.

There are two in tenor five. I just checked the PDF I sent you, it's right.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:54 pm**

nogginbone wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:38 pm
BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:19 pm Not in Tenor 5 (I just downloaded it). Which part do you have? I'll swap with you.
In the tenor 5 that I downloaded from here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... Qrmu-rf9O2

there are two very high B flats 4 lines above the stave. I can just about reach them.

Yeah, I'd take that down an octave. Especially at this speed, that's on the edge of playability in a 5th part. Plus, it's covered in other parts as well.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:00 pm**

If you can play it as written, please do, but it's fine to take it down an octave if not. Just be sure to take the whole triplet down the octave if you do.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:03 pm**

Signed on for bass 2.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:43 pm**

Okay, if you're planning on playing a part, please put yourself on the sign-up sheet for that part.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:59 pm**

Ok dudes and dudettes, here are your backup tracks. One with a click and one without. Take your pick and have at it.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Remember to wear something festive for your video. An ugly Christmas sweater is the perfect festive attire. Our jazz band has worn those for our last 2 Christmas concerts. And a nice set of antlers always completes the picture.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:55 pm**

Anyone taking tenor 3? Id love to attempt, i would try bass but the only one available is bass 4 and i dont have those chops.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:03 pm**

I was planning to do Tenor 3 since Nogginbone wanted to do Tenor 5. Pick whichever you want. Since all parts are covered (except Bass 4) you can double up with any of us.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:46 am**

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:00 pm If you can play it as written, please do, but it's fine to take it down an octave if not. Just be sure to take the whole triplet down the octave if you do.

Thanks. I'll do both and see how I get on.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:55 am**

Thought I'd repost the links to files as they're getting hard to find:

Music PDFs: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... Qrmu-rf9O2

Background tracks: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... H9l6VohePw

Signup sheet:

Musescore version: https://musescore.com/user/12682446/scores/6425950

Upload: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... H9l6VohePw (Same as background tracks)

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:01 am**

I don't want to promise as I am not sure if I will find the time. But if I do, I will also record bass trombone 4.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:37 am**

I've signed up to double the tenor 5 part (also an octave down when it goes high). If it's okay to have more than one person on a part, I will play. No problem if not.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:59 am**

bwanamfupi wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:37 am I've signed up to double the tenor 5 part (also an octave down when it goes high). If it's okay to have more than one person on a part, I will play. No problem if not.

I am very happy to have someone seconding me on part 5.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:10 pm**

Wow. Bass 4 is LOW! I would need my tuba for that one. Meanwhile, I'll keep working on Tenor 3. Nice part. Sorta fits in between everybody else.

Btw, not being Christian I don't have any gaudy Christmas stuff -- and my funny hat got ruined in one of my recent car crashes. I may pull out my plastic trombone for color.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:27 pm**

MStarke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:01 am I don't want to promise as I am not sure if I will find the time. But if I do, I will also record bass trombone 4.

Not to worry, our own Neo Bri will be recording bass 4. You can still record it if you want, but don't feel obligated.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:21 pm**

I sat down to do my first draft recording tonight. A few observations -

That thing is really fast. And I am playing a tenor part. The bass players trying to manage those 8th notes down in the trigger range are going to have their hands full.

The solo triplets on beat 3 are hard to hit in tempo at that speed.

My suggestion would be to back the tempo off to about 170 or so. It would be much more manageable. That tune is not traditionally played at 192. I will be interested to hear what others think.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:23 pm**

Yeah, very fast. Not only is the counting hard. The triplets for 3rd tenor is Bb Db and F. I guess i could play Bb trigger 3 and F in 6th, but ew. I think knocking tempo down a couple clicks would be great.

Posted: **Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:37 pm**

I can back it off a bit more. I'll upload a new midi tomorrow.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:29 am**

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:27 pm
MStarke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:01 am I don't want to promise as I am not sure if I will find the time. But if I do, I will also record bass trombone 4.
Not to worry, our own Neo Bri will be recording bass 4. You can still record it if you want, but don't feel obligated.

Perfect!

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:00 am**

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:21 pm I sat down to do my first draft recording tonight. A few observations -

That thing is really fast. And I am playing a tenor part. The bass players trying to manage those 8th notes down in the trigger range are going to have their hands full.

The solo triplets on beat 3 are hard to hit in tempo at that speed.

My suggestion would be to back the tempo off to about 170 or so. It would be much more manageable. That tune is not traditionally played at 192. I will be interested to hear what others think.

I was kind of waiting for someone to break the ice with a little realism. This was clearly written on a computer for a computer. In the 2nd tenor part, the triplets are challenging enough, but the unison 1/16 notes (and the off-beats) in measure 50 may be a little over the top at this speed. The duple/triple figures from 117-120 are going to be really tough to hit in time at speed, and the whole passage with the duple offbeats is going to sound like a train wreck. Even on the WAV, it's messy. Measures 128-132 look nice on the score, but I don't think they are very realistic. And even on the click track, the clicks sound late because of the bloom of the midi, length of the click and the speed of the piece. Add basses down to pedal F at this speed, and it's really a no-go, Neo-Bri or not. This could never be performed live at this speed. Recording it individually, and probably in small parts spliced together into a single take with no errors is really the only way to do it. That or record it at a playable speed, and then speed it up in software. This project is becoming more about technology than having fun playing.

Getting real participation (actual usable tracks submitted) has to be at least partially connected to having accessible music to play. I'm not as interested in the editing side of things as I am with playing, so I think I'm going to drop off the list.

I would suggest a bit of an edit from someone who has done more real-world writing. Not to be rude, but this should be something fun, not a splicing/editing exercise. This is a song with words, maybe it should reflect that? Have you ever been to a trombone or tuba Christmas event? The music is challenging but fun. Not improbable.

Examples of successful trombone ensemble writing for pros:

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:28 am**

AmI missing something or is Alto 1 the same as Tenor 1 and Alto 2 the same as Tenor 2?

I agree that the triplet handoff is going to be tough to get smooth at this tempo. And I keep getting tripped up going from the off-beat 8ths to the on-beat 8ths.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:48 am**

Okay, so a few things-
First of all, easiest to answer, Alto 1 and 2 are not the same as Tenor 1 and 2.
Second of all, there were a few things I had in my mind when I was writing this. I evidently planned for too high a skill level. That's completely my fault, and I apologize for that. I also did try quite hard to make it fun. However, I apparently have a very different idea of fun than some members of the forum. This is, again, completely my fault, and I apologize.
As for my credentials, I have done real-world writing before. I had hoped that this was a chance to write for a group at a higher level. Again, clearly I was mistaken, my fault, apology, etc. If it didn't come through in my writing, that's a major failure on my part. Also, a couple parts (the duple/triple section, for example) I thought would be easier outside of a live ensemble. That was me attempting to take advantage of the virtual format where each person records their part individually.
All this being said, I am more than capable of editing it down to be more realistic myself. I'll have the requested edits done by the end of the week.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:00 pm**

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:48 am Okay, so a few things-
First of all, easiest to answer, Alto 1 and 2 are not the same as Tenor 1 and 2.
Second of all, there were a few things I had in my mind when I was writing this. I evidently planned for too high a skill level. That's completely my fault, and I apologize for that. I also did try quite hard to make it fun. However, I apparently have a very different idea of fun than some members of the forum. This is, again, completely my fault, and I apologize.
As for my credentials, I have done real-world writing before. I had hoped that this was a chance to write for a group at a higher level. Again, clearly I was mistaken, my fault, apology, etc. If it didn't come through in my writing, that's a major failure on my part. Also, a couple parts (the duple/triple section, for example) I thought would be easier outside of a live ensemble. That was me attempting to take advantage of the virtual format where each person records their part individually.
All this being said, I am more than capable of editing it down to be more realistic myself. I'll have the requested edits done by the end of the week.

I must say that I found the comments a little harsh, but as we are speaking about a mixed group of people it's certainly good to make it a little easier.

However we should not forget the efforts that go into the arranging. Big thank you for that! No need for apologies on that end!

I personally am happy with the parts I plan to record.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:40 pm**

Many many thanks to mahlertwo for all the work being done. Challenging at 192? You bet. But a really good work out. I need the work on my bottom bottom Eb's

Still transitioning from a dependent Holton to an independent Rath, so brain farts still occuring!

doug

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:55 pm**

Hyperbolica seems to have removed himself from the signup sheet, so we need a tenor 2 again.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:41 pm**

I was not criticizing the arrangement, only suggesting that the tempo might be a bit ambitious. But yes, there are players of many varying skill levels on here, from top pros to amateur schmucks such as myself to fairly inexperienced players. The goal for a project like this should be to do something that a large number of people can participate in. And easier music played well sounds better than harder music played poorly.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:51 pm**

I'll weigh in. First, I want to record this version. It's challenging, and I would love to have a piece that I've recorded where I gliss from F5 to Bb5, an octave above what is written in the alto part's last measure. That would be hilarious. That said:

I know of no group that would risk playing this arrangement live, or at least without a click track. It will be extremely challenging to sound like we are all playing together. Also, recording this might take 3 hours of my time to get the recording right -- I can't afford to lose a weekend day and then have to rerecord a different version because too many people bailed.

The comments about expecting a high level of playing will make people who want to participate feel put out. An easy arrangement played well IS superior to a difficult one played poorly. Hyperbolica could have just said "I think this is too difficult for the group"

Who here can realistically play this piece, as arranged, in a mechanical tempo, so that it can actually be edited together? I think I can, but I would rather have lots of people in the forum involved

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:11 pm**

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:51 pm I'll weigh in. First, I want to record this version. It's challenging, and I would love to have a piece that I've recorded where I gliss from F5 to Bb5, an octave above what is written in the alto part's last measure. That would be hilarious. That said:

I know of no group that would risk playing this arrangement live, or at least without a click track. It will be extremely challenging to sound like we are all playing together. Also, recording this might take 3 hours of my time to get the recording right -- I can't afford to lose a weekend day and then have to rerecord a different version because too many people bailed.

The comments about expecting a high level of playing will make people who want to participate feel put out. An easy arrangement played well IS superior to a difficult one played poorly. Hyperbolica could have just said "I think this is too difficult for the group"

Who here can realistically play this piece, as arranged, in a mechanical tempo, so that it can actually be edited together? I think I can, but I would rather have lots of people in the forum involved

I do apologize if I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention. And I'd love for as many people to participate as possible. I made the piece too hard. That was a mistake. I'm working on toning it down a bit now. Also, Harrison, originally I was going to put an optional 8va on that last gliss, but decided against it. Glad to know my first instinct there was right!

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:26 pm**

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:11 pm
I do apologize if I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention. And I'd love for as many people to participate as possible. I made the piece too hard. That was a mistake. I'm working on toning it down a bit now. Also, Harrison, originally I was going to put an optional 8va on that last gliss, but decided against it. Glad to know my first instinct there was right!

Yeah. Don't take me the wrong way. Thank you so much for doing this work -- I want to record this version (and play that Bb5!). I just also want to be playing along side people I read stuff from on the forum all the time and for everyone to be having fun.

Maybe others will weigh in with their honesty.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:34 pm**

Best would probably be a version that has parts where everyone finds something to feel comfortable. But at the same time this is probably demanding even more from the arranger

But maybe it's feasibly by doing some optional alternatives and simplifications, plus an overall slightly slower tempo?

As said I personally am confident to play as written, although it is definitely a challenge.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:48 pm**

Don't worry about asking too much from me- No one's making me do this, I freely chose to. Also, testing out parts of it myself, slowing it down to 171 makes the handoffs significantly easier. There's half the battle down. I'm just reducing some range things, then it should be fine (I hope! As we've learned, I'm not the greatest judge of that). Harrison, Markus, I'm keeping your parts more or less the same.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:53 pm**

If you have the time/interest to turn this into a learning experience, compare Elkjer's quartets to Christopher Bill's quartets. Bill's stuff is mainly unplayable due to cheap effects (anybody can write unplayably high notes or write annotated syncopation that performers would normally add - or not add - on their own). Elkjer's stuff seems much easier on paper, but it's far more musically sophisticated. Elkjer still offers big challenges for your average college trombone quartet. My quartet has tunes from both arrangers in our book, but we actually play the Elkjer. We play very little C. Bill. We have 3 retired/former pros in the group, so we can play.

Did you ever see that episode of Star Trek Voyager where the doctor goes to sing a recital, but they replace him with a program that can sing anything they can write?

compare that with

Beauty is beauty regardless of simplicity. Higher-faster-louder is not more beautiful.

I do like your arrangement, mixing in the other Christmas tunes was clever, and I love this particular melody. I was specific about what I would change because I think it can be adjusted, plus I really hate it when people just give general criticism without making the effort to explain themselves. I do a little arranging myself, so I know how easy it is to fall into different types of traps, especially when the computer is right there, and it can perform anything. Sorry if the criticism comes off as harsh, that wasn't the intent.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:03 pm**

Alright, here's the latest update of the piece: https://musescore.com/user/12682446/scores/6425950

If anyone has specific concerns with or requests for their parts, please let me know as soon as you can. Thank you to everyone who's participating.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:05 pm**

Also, Hyperbolica, I'm a Star Wars fan, not a Trekkie, but I do get the sentiment.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:33 pm**

Are the parts available under the same links?

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:37 pm**

Not the new ones. Pulling the parts out takes some time.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:59 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:53 pm I
Did you ever see that episode of Star Trek Voyager where the doctor goes to sing a recital, but they replace him with a program that can sing anything they can write?

I like to think of the Andy Griffith episode where Barney is supposed to sing a solo with the town choir, but they put Gomer backstage to sing it while Barney mimes. I have done that to a few folks in my community band on our group videos.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:07 pm**

Very doable, very nice.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:18 pm**

vetsurginc wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:07 pm Very doable, very nice.

Don't worry, I left your pedal Ebs in!

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