TromboneChat

BassBoneWadie99 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:56 am Personally, I'd say that the King 7B and 8B's cousin the Benge 290 would definitely be one of them. Along with Getzen's Eternal Basses. At first I wasn't sure what to think of my 1062FD as I've had conflicting views, but overtime I've grown to like it's quirks and have grown attached as it was my first horn I've bought with my own money.

Different strokes for different folks

Agreed. I'm selling my 290 if anyone wants to see how underrated it really is!

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:50 pm I suspect that if we made a list of OVERrated horns, we'd see many of the same names.

I was thinking the same thing! Trombones are certainly a "different strokes for different folks" item. Many of the models that I see listed here are the exact models that I would put on my "least favorite" list. I don't say that to belittle anyone......I just think it is fascinating to see what different people think is a "great-playing horn." Thank goodness we have so many different models to choose from!

Ah! the eternal bass....hope springs.....
Chris

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:53 pm

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:50 pm I suspect that if we made a list of OVERrated horns, we'd see many of the same names.

I was thinking the same thing! Trombones are certainly a "different strokes for different folks" item. Many of the models that I see listed here are the exact models that I would put on my "least favorite" list. I don't say that to belittle anyone......I just think it is fascinating to see what different people think is a "great-playing horn." Thank goodness we have so many different models to choose from!

That is exactly the point with this thread. Here people list the horns that most people do not favour. The people posting here have discovered some of these horns to be a lot better than the reputation and thats why they are considered to be underrated.

My personal viewpoint is what horn is good or not depends on what you want. What style you are going to play and what part you are going to play and what people around you play.

Some think the good horns are few. Many consider the current horn they play to be the best horn they ever played or the horn they sold that they regret selling was the best horn or the horn they are going to buy is the best horn. I have a more forgiving attitude towards horns.

To me horns just play and sound different. There are horns that are more difficult to play and needs to be explored more and the first impression could then be they are awkward, but with a little work they can change a lot. If you consider professional horns and especially new ones there are not many real bad horns. The secret is to learn how to play them and to go with the horn and not try to make it to something it is not. You could try a different mouthpiece and that could completely change a horn. I think most do not experiment like that so they will never know. Some ebay horns I've bought just need a good clean. If you want a large deep sound to play modern classical symphonic repertoire then a Conn 4h or a Benge 170 freelance is maybe not a so good horn if you are not a magician.

/Tom

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:08 pm Ah! the eternal bass....hope springs.....
Chris

Whoops, looks like I forgot to turn off autocorrect.... LOL. Should be fixed now

imsevimse wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:26 pm There are horns that are more difficult to play and needs to be explored more and the first impression could then be they are awkward, but with a little work they can change a lot.

...

I think most do not experiment like that so they will never know.

My professional work is in historically informed performance (keyboards, not brass), where the starting point is that the instruments have something to teach you in relation to their original repertoire, and you should be modifying your technique to suit. That doesn't mean you have to like every instrument, nor does it mean that all the instruments end up having equal potential, but the starting premise with an unfamiliar instrument is not 'why doesn't it do what I want?', but rather 'what is it designed to do best, what should I want from it, and how can I best make those things happen?'

With trombones, I have the luxury of behaving the same way, not least because I'm an amateur and there is zero risk involved. For a busy pro, this may not be practical or realistic. I find the process intrinsically interesting and enjoyable, and I'm fascinated by instrument design in its own right. Even if I never end up liking the instrument, I'll learn a lot about my own playing, and at least a bit about how instruments and mouthpieces work.

A while ago, I read someone objecting to interchangeable leadpipes (can't remember if it was here, or elsewhere on the dark web) - the mere possibility of choice overload was a cause of distress, even though they were already happy with their horn as it was. The worldview this implies is alien to me, but it exists, and its adherents should not pursue avenues that lead to unhappiness!

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:28 am
My professional work is in historically informed performance (keyboards, not brass), where the starting point is that the instruments have something to teach you in relation to their original repertoire, and you should be modifying your technique to suit. That doesn't mean you have to like every instrument, nor does it mean that all the instruments end up having equal potential, but the starting premise with an unfamiliar instrument is not 'why doesn't it do what I want?', but rather 'what is it designed to do best, what should I want from it, and how can I best make those things happen?'

This is how I look at my horns too. I'm a collector, not just a hoarder of trombones but also of trombone sounds. The oldest american horns I own are a Conn from 1902 and a King from 1904. I bought those just to know better the circumstances of the trombone players who were the pioneers of our instruments (especially pioneers in jazz). I did not know how the instruments they had back then played and are the instruments of today really better made? I had to get those instruments to learn. Since then I have collected a lot of horns. I have most of the well regarded professional horns, but also some unknown horns that are forgotten now. Were they bad horns? I have come to the conclusion the ideals change over time, just as I guess also is with other instruments as keyboards. The old trombones absolutely teach us a lot about repertoire if you choose to go that path. I think in the trombone world most do not do that if they are not interested in historical instruments like the sacbut. Most tromboneplayers I meet are not interested in old sounds, especially not the classical players. They might use their Conn 88h, Bach 42 or whatever fancy they own for everything.

/Tom

imsevimse wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:17 pm I'm a collector, not just a hoarder of trombones but also of trombone sounds.

Yes, that's a really nice way to put it.


Similarly, I'm always surprised by those who dismiss modular/custom horns as encouraging the attitude that one can spend one's way to a better sound as opposed to putting in the necessary hours of practice.

Certainly, anyone shopping on that basis should be strongly discouraged for their own financial and emotional good.

Equally, however, there is nothing morally wrong with even a lousy player wanting to try a nickel silver hydrocoptic marzlevane out of pure musical curiosity.

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:47 pm ...

Equally, however, there is nothing morally wrong with even a lousy player wanting to try a nickel silver hydrocoptic marzlevane out of pure musical curiosity.

I would agree with this provided the person buying the whizbang is capable of paying for it, not trying to wheedle the money from the Bank of Mom and Dad.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:58 pm I would agree with this provided the person buying the whizbang is capable of paying for it, not trying to wheedle the money from the Bank of Mom and Dad.

That's fair