TromboneChat

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:21 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:08 am

This is exactly why the constant growth capitalism model is so insidious. There's no reason this guy needed to expand and make more flutes, but we all feel like he should because...?

Yup. Simply doing a thing well, at a scale that supports whomever one needs to support, shouldn't be a countercultural anomaly. (There's also the small matter of relentless growth sending the planet straight into the chipper.)

Agreed with both of you. We'd all be better off if most of just did less and chilled out a bit.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:08 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:38 pm

What, he is too stuck up to take on an apprentice?

This is exactly why the constant growth capitalism model is so insidious. There's no reason this guy needed to expand and make more flutes, but we all feel like he should because...?

Taking on an apprentice would be a sort of unselfish thing to do for someone who has a backlist longer than a flautist's career, and the rest of his career.

You aren't putting your customer first if you take their money, and then say "see you in 17 years".

Rather than going to dark thoughts about capitalism, my thoughts were more towards helping to pass on his craft.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:35 pm
Taking on an apprentice would be a sort of unselfish thing to do for someone who has a backlist longer than a flautist's career, and the rest of his career.

You aren't putting your customer first if you take their money, and then say "see you in 17 years".

Rather than going to dark thoughts about capitalism, my thoughts were more towards helping to pass on his craft.

Again, who cares. Let him do what he wants.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:58 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:35 pm
Taking on an apprentice would be a sort of unselfish thing to do for someone who has a backlist longer than a flautist's career, and the rest of his career.

You aren't putting your customer first if you take their money, and then say "see you in 17 years".

Rather than going to dark thoughts about capitalism, my thoughts were more towards helping to pass on his craft.

Again, who cares. Let him do what he wants.

You right you right

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”

“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

The problem with taking on an apprentice is that the people who actually possess the aptitude to do this kind of work are few and far between. I have discovered that it's a lot harder than I believed it was, and simply explaining the process to someone doesn't guarantee they can do it. So it becomes an equation of whether you want to spend countless hours hovering over someone, repeatedly explaining how to do something that seems simple in your mind, but is not, or just doing it yourself and be done with it. Are you losing money because you're spending more time fixing the problems with your apprentice than you would have spent just doing the work yourself?

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:37 am The problem with taking on an apprentice is that the people who actually possess the aptitude to do this kind of work are few and far between. I have discovered that it's a lot harder than I believed it was, and simply explaining the process to someone doesn't guarantee they can do it. So it becomes an equation of whether you want to spend countless hours hovering over someone, repeatedly explaining how to do something that seems simple in your mind, but is not, or just doing it yourself and be done with it. Are you losing money because you're spending more time fixing the problems with your apprentice than you would have spent just doing the work yourself?

Even if they possess the aptitude, there's still a learning curve. Even the best will mess up some stuff along the way; that's why you need to have enough "apprentice-level" work (rental fleet or maybe school instruments) for them to do to make it worthwhile. I doubt if Chris Wilkes has a whole lot of that sort of thing pass through his shop.

A story of the slowest.
Around 1975 when I was still in High School I ordered a Miraphone mouth piece from the music store. Never showed up. Until…. About 1993. The music store had changed hands twice. I just happen to be at the music store looking at sheet music and a box appeared from UPS. They opened the box as it was from Germany and in the box was the mouthpiece I ordered. I overheard this and told my friend the owned the store about the order. He gave me the mouthpiece. So remember; when someone tells you the music biz is slow, know that it is normal and 18 years is slow.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:37 am The problem with taking on an apprentice is that the people who actually possess the aptitude to do this kind of work are few and far between.

I worked for the Shires company for five years doing sales. The entire time I was there Steve Shires was trying to train others to spin bells, and he was never able to find someone with the aptitude to do that particular job at the level he needed. After I left he finally found a guy named Rodrigo who was able to learn to spin bells to Steve's satisfaction. As you are probably aware, Steve is no longer with the company, and as far as I know Rodrigo is now the only person spinning bells in that factory.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:35 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:08 am

This is exactly why the constant growth capitalism model is so insidious. There's no reason this guy needed to expand and make more flutes, but we all feel like he should because...?

Taking on an apprentice would be a sort of unselfish thing to do for someone who has a backlist longer than a flautist's career, and the rest of his career.

You aren't putting your customer first if you take their money, and then say "see you in 17 years".

Rather than going to dark thoughts about capitalism, my thoughts were more towards helping to pass on his craft.

Anyone who has trained another employee, let alone taken on an apprentice (or been an apprentice), knows the time- and energy-consuming nature of such an endeavour. It’s neither selfish nor unselfish.

If said maker were part of a union, he might be required to take on an apprentice in order continue he status in the union or progress in the ranks, so to speak. As a private maker, he is under no such obligation.

The short-term prospect: an apprentice is a time-suck. Long-term prospect: an apprentice is an investment, which takes care and nurturing to achieve full potential.

I’m never surprised when small shops have no helpers or apprentices, even when a casual observation lends one to think, “Well, they’d make more money, and have more time to crank up production!” Only after years of training…

Mistakes can be VERY expensive to fix.

Mr. Reginald Schilke used to say something along the lines of: “It is easy to take material off of a mouthpiece. It is much more difficult to put it back.”

OneTon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:49 pm Mr. Reginald Schilke used to say something along the lines of: “It is easy to take material off of a mouthpiece. It is much more difficult to put it back.”

Renold Schilke. And I believe he said "impossible." Measure twice,* cut once.


*Or more, as necessary.

A buddy of mine sent his tenor sax to a shop in New Orleans for a rebuild just before Katrina. I can’t remember if he ever got it back.

Some bike shops are quoting delivery times of 6 months to a year or more on high end bikes these days.

As the proctologist said, this too shall pass. Hopefully.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:53 pm Mistakes can be VERY expensive to fix.

If they can be fixed at all. It's one thing if an apprentice bolluxes up something they're making, and a whole 'nother stretch of road when they make a bad mistake on a repair job.

In the former case, there's a loss of time and material (both of which equal money), but it's recoverable. In the latter case, it's you having to break the news to the customer that something has happened to their one-of-a-kind whatever-it-is.

Of course, that's assuming the apprentice's mistake doesn't result in significant damage to the shop equipment or (worst possible scenario) him/herself.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:19 pm

OneTon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:49 pm Mr. Reginald Schilke used to say something along the lines of: “It is easy to take material off of a mouthpiece. It is much more difficult to put it back.”

Renold Schilke. And I believe he said "impossible." Measure twice,* cut once.


*Or more, as necessary.

You are correct. It was Renold. I was never on a first name
basis with him. All the communication went through my university teacher.