It's the TruBores. Especially with dual inline valves, I find that the slots are much better defined in the high register with them over any other kind of valve Shires offers.
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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ttf_sfboner
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Jul 31, 2015, 03:05PMIt's the TruBores. Especially with dual inline valves, I find that the slots are much better defined in the high register with them over any other kind of valve Shires offers.
Well, yes and no. As I wrote, I also tried another dual bore bass slide with my bell section, and found similar, though not exactly the same, results.
I wish I could have tried trubore bass valves before buying my bass. I wasn't terribly enthused by them on tenor, so I stuck with the axials I was used to on tenor.
Well, yes and no. As I wrote, I also tried another dual bore bass slide with my bell section, and found similar, though not exactly the same, results.
I wish I could have tried trubore bass valves before buying my bass. I wasn't terribly enthused by them on tenor, so I stuck with the axials I was used to on tenor.
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ttf_The Bone Ranger
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
My work-supplied bass is a Shires with dependent axials and a dual-bore slide. I find a similar effect, whereas my Edwards with similar specs is my go-to horn.
I had an opportunity to try a single-bore slide on the Shires a while ago, and the horn came to life! This will be where I start if I ever get the chance.
Andrew
I had an opportunity to try a single-bore slide on the Shires a while ago, and the horn came to life! This will be where I start if I ever get the chance.
Andrew
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: The Bone Ranger on Jul 31, 2015, 07:35PMMy work-supplied bass is a Shires with dependent axials and a dual-bore slide. I find a similar effect, whereas my Edwards with similar specs is my go-to horn.
I had an opportunity to try a single-bore slide on the Shires a while ago, and the horn came to life! This will be where I start if I ever get the chance.
Andrew
A year or so ago Gabe brought a student by and everything was a little loose with the B62; a dual-bore B62-78 wound up firming up the slots for him. I know I didn't expect that going in, and I think Gabe didn't either.
It is important to note that every experience is unique.
I had an opportunity to try a single-bore slide on the Shires a while ago, and the horn came to life! This will be where I start if I ever get the chance.
Andrew
A year or so ago Gabe brought a student by and everything was a little loose with the B62; a dual-bore B62-78 wound up firming up the slots for him. I know I didn't expect that going in, and I think Gabe didn't either.
It is important to note that every experience is unique.
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ttf_The Bone Ranger
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Aug 02, 2015, 06:10AM
A year or so ago Gabe brought a student by and everything was a little loose with the B62; a dual-bore B62-78 wound up firming up the slots for him. I know I didn't expect that going in, and I think Gabe didn't either.
It is important to note that every experience is unique.
Agreed. A dual bore seems to work better for me on the Edwards, but single bore is a better fit on the Shires. Go figure. Whatever works best.
Speaking of which, could you post a picture of the current dependent rotor and dependent trubore valve sections? I have neck clearance issues, so I'm currently using your dependent Thayer section on my work-supplied horn, but a new horn is on the horizon, and some pics of the two valve sections would help me decided whether it's even worth considering those when the time comes. There are varying images online, but it seems the configuration may have changed a few times over the years.
Andrew.
A year or so ago Gabe brought a student by and everything was a little loose with the B62; a dual-bore B62-78 wound up firming up the slots for him. I know I didn't expect that going in, and I think Gabe didn't either.
It is important to note that every experience is unique.
Agreed. A dual bore seems to work better for me on the Edwards, but single bore is a better fit on the Shires. Go figure. Whatever works best.
Speaking of which, could you post a picture of the current dependent rotor and dependent trubore valve sections? I have neck clearance issues, so I'm currently using your dependent Thayer section on my work-supplied horn, but a new horn is on the horizon, and some pics of the two valve sections would help me decided whether it's even worth considering those when the time comes. There are varying images online, but it seems the configuration may have changed a few times over the years.
Andrew.
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ttf_Mahlerbone
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Jul 31, 2015, 09:42AMHi Jeff,
If your small bore tuning slide has no markings it is a standard SY, no number, which is the largest one we make. When the small bores first came out, they were mostly geared toward a larger feel. Since that time, we did come out with the SY1.0 and SY1.5 tuning slides, which make all the difference in the world when it comes to giving the horn more of a small bore feels, especially in terms of getting a more compact, dense sound out front. Of the two, the SY1.5 is the more compact and more popular with most players.
Gold brass is an interesting option, but most find that they prefer the yellow brass tuning slide on small bores. Doing a gold brass in any size would be a custom order only.
Seamed tuning slides on small bores are possible, but they don't settle in the same way they do on the large bores. The seamed tuning slides also tend not to have as much point to the front of the articulation as the drawn tuning slides do, which is usually the opposite of what people want in a small bore. Seamed small bore tuning slides would also be a custom order only.
I hope that helps!
Ben
Thanks Ben, looks like the SY1.5 tuning slide should work great for me. I'll be ordering one soon.
If your small bore tuning slide has no markings it is a standard SY, no number, which is the largest one we make. When the small bores first came out, they were mostly geared toward a larger feel. Since that time, we did come out with the SY1.0 and SY1.5 tuning slides, which make all the difference in the world when it comes to giving the horn more of a small bore feels, especially in terms of getting a more compact, dense sound out front. Of the two, the SY1.5 is the more compact and more popular with most players.
Gold brass is an interesting option, but most find that they prefer the yellow brass tuning slide on small bores. Doing a gold brass in any size would be a custom order only.
Seamed tuning slides on small bores are possible, but they don't settle in the same way they do on the large bores. The seamed tuning slides also tend not to have as much point to the front of the articulation as the drawn tuning slides do, which is usually the opposite of what people want in a small bore. Seamed small bore tuning slides would also be a custom order only.
I hope that helps!
Ben
Thanks Ben, looks like the SY1.5 tuning slide should work great for me. I'll be ordering one soon.
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ttf_schiffko
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
i would be interested to know the difference between the regular tuning slides for large bore shires trombones and the X tuning slides.
which partials are different? thanks a lot
which partials are different? thanks a lot
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: schiffko on Aug 03, 2015, 02:14PMi would be interested to know the difference between the regular tuning slides for large bore shires trombones and the X tuning slides.
which partials are different? thanks a lot
The short answer is that the TY feels more like a Conn and the TX more like a Bach. The TY is a bit more open feeling and TX provides a bit more feedback on the back half of the instrument.
The long answer is more nuanced, and more interesting.
If you haven't experienced a standard Shires TY tuning slide, it's tough to draw true comparisons. Steve expressly wanted a 10th partial D that was in tune (
), and so there is a paticular harmonic alignment that can take a little getting used when coming from a different instrument. I find that 3rd and 6th partial F are not so sharp and that 5th and 10th partial D are really not flat. (I also think that the 7th partial Ab is in a unique place, but this is a whacky note with no consistency that I've found between manufacturers).
The TX arranges the overtones closer to what you might find on a Bach 42. So the F's are exaggerated high in most overtones and the D's are low in the 5th harmonic and a bit lower in the 10th. The 8th partial Bb is a bit lower as well.
I've taken to playing a TX on my personal large bore/s (7YLW or TII 5YVNY bell, Tru bore, TW47 w/2 leadpipe). I find it's a touch more lithe and lively. It's not quite as timbrally flexible, but that's not an issue that I have trouble with on most horns. Most of all, I like the feedback it gives to my chops, which aids security on an instrument that I do not play as often professionally as some others. (I should note that I am not a stranger to the big horn. I play a LOT of large bore trombones every day...if you bought a horn new from Shires in the last three years I most likely did the play-test before it went out the door. I play the prototypes and trial instruments that center around production changes. I also play my big horn with my students at URI. In short, I play big horns a LOT. But that's a little different than the horn a play when someone is paying me...and most people hire me as a commercial/jazz/show musician).
A lot of people recently have been using the TX with non-Bach-like instruments, and I think it's a good thing. One more option we offer (that most others don't) that can dial a horn in that extra 10% or more to put it over the top in terms of sound, playability, and comfort.
I hope that helps
which partials are different? thanks a lot
The short answer is that the TY feels more like a Conn and the TX more like a Bach. The TY is a bit more open feeling and TX provides a bit more feedback on the back half of the instrument.
The long answer is more nuanced, and more interesting.
If you haven't experienced a standard Shires TY tuning slide, it's tough to draw true comparisons. Steve expressly wanted a 10th partial D that was in tune (
), and so there is a paticular harmonic alignment that can take a little getting used when coming from a different instrument. I find that 3rd and 6th partial F are not so sharp and that 5th and 10th partial D are really not flat. (I also think that the 7th partial Ab is in a unique place, but this is a whacky note with no consistency that I've found between manufacturers). The TX arranges the overtones closer to what you might find on a Bach 42. So the F's are exaggerated high in most overtones and the D's are low in the 5th harmonic and a bit lower in the 10th. The 8th partial Bb is a bit lower as well.
I've taken to playing a TX on my personal large bore/s (7YLW or TII 5YVNY bell, Tru bore, TW47 w/2 leadpipe). I find it's a touch more lithe and lively. It's not quite as timbrally flexible, but that's not an issue that I have trouble with on most horns. Most of all, I like the feedback it gives to my chops, which aids security on an instrument that I do not play as often professionally as some others. (I should note that I am not a stranger to the big horn. I play a LOT of large bore trombones every day...if you bought a horn new from Shires in the last three years I most likely did the play-test before it went out the door. I play the prototypes and trial instruments that center around production changes. I also play my big horn with my students at URI. In short, I play big horns a LOT. But that's a little different than the horn a play when someone is paying me...and most people hire me as a commercial/jazz/show musician).
A lot of people recently have been using the TX with non-Bach-like instruments, and I think it's a good thing. One more option we offer (that most others don't) that can dial a horn in that extra 10% or more to put it over the top in terms of sound, playability, and comfort.
I hope that helps
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ttf_schiffko
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Hi ben
Thanks so mich for your detailled answer
This helps a lot
I just tried a combo:
3T R bell
X tuning slide
Yellow brass standard slide (long)
2 brass pipe
Standard rotor
And immediately fell in love with this combo
Last question: is there a heavy valve cap available?
Thx
Tom
Thanks so mich for your detailled answer
This helps a lot
I just tried a combo:
3T R bell
X tuning slide
Yellow brass standard slide (long)
2 brass pipe
Standard rotor
And immediately fell in love with this combo
Last question: is there a heavy valve cap available?
Thx
Tom
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: schiffko on Aug 06, 2015, 04:27AMHi ben
Thanks so mich for your detailled answer
This helps a lot
I just tried a combo:
3T R bell
X tuning slide
Yellow brass standard slide (long)
2 brass pipe
Standard rotor
And immediately fell in love with this combo
Last question: is there a heavy valve cap available?
Thx
Tom
A 3T R? I'm not sure what the "T" means, but the type 3 bells are a rare thing indeed.
For those that do not know, the type 3 came before the type 7 bells and were a way to try to get to the same place (thinner toward the edge of the flare). The type 3 bells were a two-piece design but the flare was made out of a sheet of brass that was like a disc with a slice of the pie removed. It was then brazed together and spun down (like vintage horns). They have a cool quality about them, a bit more blend than the type 1, but still with lots of personality. I think they have a "vintage" quality to the sound. Ultimately the type 7 did the same thing Steve was looking for more consistently and effectively across the board, so the type 3 was phased out.
We do not offer caps of different weights for our valves, what is on there is what we have.
I hope this helps,
Ben
Thanks so mich for your detailled answer
This helps a lot
I just tried a combo:
3T R bell
X tuning slide
Yellow brass standard slide (long)
2 brass pipe
Standard rotor
And immediately fell in love with this combo
Last question: is there a heavy valve cap available?
Thx
Tom
A 3T R? I'm not sure what the "T" means, but the type 3 bells are a rare thing indeed.
For those that do not know, the type 3 came before the type 7 bells and were a way to try to get to the same place (thinner toward the edge of the flare). The type 3 bells were a two-piece design but the flare was made out of a sheet of brass that was like a disc with a slice of the pie removed. It was then brazed together and spun down (like vintage horns). They have a cool quality about them, a bit more blend than the type 1, but still with lots of personality. I think they have a "vintage" quality to the sound. Ultimately the type 7 did the same thing Steve was looking for more consistently and effectively across the board, so the type 3 was phased out.
We do not offer caps of different weights for our valves, what is on there is what we have.
I hope this helps,
Ben
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ttf_afugate
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Hi Ben.
Will Shires .547 leadpipe threads fit an Eastman Shires 634?
--Andy in OKC
Will Shires .547 leadpipe threads fit an Eastman Shires 634?
--Andy in OKC
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: afugate on Aug 10, 2015, 07:34PMHi Ben.
Will Shires .547 leadpipe threads fit an Eastman Shires 634?
--Andy in OKC
Maybe.
The threads are supposedly the same, but some fit and some don't, with most not fitting (in my experience). I would check and see if a friend with a Shires will let you try one of their leadpipes in your horn. That's the only way to know for sure.
I hope that helps,
Ben
Will Shires .547 leadpipe threads fit an Eastman Shires 634?
--Andy in OKC
Maybe.
The threads are supposedly the same, but some fit and some don't, with most not fitting (in my experience). I would check and see if a friend with a Shires will let you try one of their leadpipes in your horn. That's the only way to know for sure.
I hope that helps,
Ben
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ttf_afugate
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Thanks, Ben. 
-Andy in OKC
-Andy in OKC
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ttf_joshbird
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I have a couple questions. The first question about your small bore horns with an f attachment purely from a curiosity standpoint. I was just wondering why the only listed option for a trigger is the standard rotor? I'm just curious to know the reasoning why you would be less likely to put a trubore or axial valve on it.
The second question I have is how much extra it would cost to have a single Gb valve in the Gb independent configuration built. I have one on my medium bore from a number of years back that you built at no extra cost simply because whoever took the order at the time said something along the lines "I don't know if we can do that. We've never tried but it sounds really cool and I really want to try it now so no extra cost." but I have to assume that was an anomaly simply because that kind of custom work for standard price would put you under in a hurry. I may or may not be asking due to grandiose future plans of another one for another horn...
p.s I love it and it's not for sale!
The second question I have is how much extra it would cost to have a single Gb valve in the Gb independent configuration built. I have one on my medium bore from a number of years back that you built at no extra cost simply because whoever took the order at the time said something along the lines "I don't know if we can do that. We've never tried but it sounds really cool and I really want to try it now so no extra cost." but I have to assume that was an anomaly simply because that kind of custom work for standard price would put you under in a hurry. I may or may not be asking due to grandiose future plans of another one for another horn...
p.s I love it and it's not for sale!
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ttf_Driving Park
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: joshbird on Aug 13, 2015, 08:33PMI have a couple questions. The first question about your small bore horns with an f attachment purely from a curiosity standpoint. I was just wondering why the only listed option for a trigger is the standard rotor? I'm just curious to know the reasoning why you would be less likely to put a trubore or axial valve on it.
I would guess it has to do with neck room.
I would guess it has to do with neck room.
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ttf_Burgerbob
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Driving Park on Aug 13, 2015, 09:09PMI would guess it has to do with neck room.
Or the fact that the smallest version they have is probably set up for .547 with .562 tubing.
Or the fact that the smallest version they have is probably set up for .547 with .562 tubing.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
QuoteI have a couple questions. The first question about your small bore horns with an f attachment purely from a curiosity standpoint. I was just wondering why the only listed option for a trigger is the standard rotor? I'm just curious to know the reasoning why you would be less likely to put a trubore or axial valve on it.
We use the same rotor valve on small bores with valve as we do for our alto trombones. Current existing valve sets for other instruments are simply too large for this application. Making a tru-bore or axial of appropriate size would require a significant amount of custom hand work (we would not even dream of tooling up for an instrument that we've built only 5 or 6 of in the last 20 years).
I've heard from Steve and some of the guys in the shop that we did do a small bore with a small tru-bore valve. This was before I came on board with the company and must've been one of those things that Steve just wanted to see if he could do. Much like your Gb valve. I'm guessing that you spoke to Steve (or maybe Gabe) and they went ahead with it as part of R&D. Due to production and resource demands, we have been more limited to what new flights of fancy we can take. So you got in at a good time!
I would have to see pictures of the valve in question. I would guess that such a valve would be of similar cost to a comparable or more valve section (i.e. a single Gb valve section would cost the same/more than a single F section). This would fall in the category of custom/non-returnable and would most likely be subject to a lull in our production schedule.
I hope that helps!
Ben
We use the same rotor valve on small bores with valve as we do for our alto trombones. Current existing valve sets for other instruments are simply too large for this application. Making a tru-bore or axial of appropriate size would require a significant amount of custom hand work (we would not even dream of tooling up for an instrument that we've built only 5 or 6 of in the last 20 years).
I've heard from Steve and some of the guys in the shop that we did do a small bore with a small tru-bore valve. This was before I came on board with the company and must've been one of those things that Steve just wanted to see if he could do. Much like your Gb valve. I'm guessing that you spoke to Steve (or maybe Gabe) and they went ahead with it as part of R&D. Due to production and resource demands, we have been more limited to what new flights of fancy we can take. So you got in at a good time!
I would have to see pictures of the valve in question. I would guess that such a valve would be of similar cost to a comparable or more valve section (i.e. a single Gb valve section would cost the same/more than a single F section). This would fall in the category of custom/non-returnable and would most likely be subject to a lull in our production schedule.
I hope that helps!
Ben
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ttf_joshbird
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
That does indeed help a lot Ben. Thanks for getting back so quick and continuing to keep this thread alive and kicking.
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ttf_anonymous
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
What is the general feel of the Michael Davis Plus trombone? Does it play like a 3B, or more like a Bach or Conn?
Regards, and thanks for the great information about Shires trombones.
Regards, and thanks for the great information about Shires trombones.
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ttf_sabutin
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: louilou on Aug 24, 2015, 01:22PMWhat is the general feel of the Michael Davis Plus trombone? Does it play like a 3B, or more like a Bach or Conn?
Regards, and thanks for the great information about Shires trombones.
[s]More like a very lightweight 2B or 2B+, to me.[/s]
I blew this one. Missed the word "Plus" in the question. Duh. Gabe pointed this out to me. Thanks, Gabe. I wrote a whole 'nother answer several posts down from here.
S.
Regards, and thanks for the great information about Shires trombones.
[s]More like a very lightweight 2B or 2B+, to me.[/s]
I blew this one. Missed the word "Plus" in the question. Duh. Gabe pointed this out to me. Thanks, Gabe. I wrote a whole 'nother answer several posts down from here.
S.
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ttf_anonymous
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- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Thanks for the information. I was curious about The Michael Davis Plus .508 bore because I have the presumption that it would be like a King 3B -but with less funkiness in the high Bb to high D partials. I am playing now second trombone and in some songs first in a three trombone Salsa band that plays some of the Willie Colon,Hector Lavoe, Ruben Blades, Conjunto Libre, and Dimension Latina songs, among others. The King 3B is my favorite in this environment because of the tone character and the power, but I have to work hard in the high A flat to high D notes to get them to sound good. I bought an used .508 shires with a nickel silver lightweight slide, normal original brass tuning slide and the 7,75 1YM bell. I like the fact that the Shires horn is more even and plays easier and more in tune in those upper partials than the 3B, but I find the tone in the 3B to be more interesting than the Shires. The 3B has more core complexity and a greater variety of overtones than the Shires. In a perfect world, I would like the ease of playing of the Shires with the timbre of the 3B. Maybe a small change in the Shires components will do it.It was suggested to me to look into the Michael Davis Plus Model, since it might have that missing tone component. In addition, it would simplify the process of mixing and matching components.I bought the .508 Shires as is about 18 months ago (probably this horn is around 10 to 12 years old right now,). Like Sam says, everything requires personal experience and experimentation.
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ttf_anonymous
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
For those players that go with a yellow brass bell, how popular is it to slap on a gold brass tuning slide?
I mean, I remember that back in 2010, there was a manufacturer's advice to get a gold brass tuning slide with a yellow brass bell on the website.
Personal story: when I bought my Shires in 2010, I found that with a 1Y bell, the yellow brass tuning slide sounded too strident, aggressive,
and "snappy". Using a gold brass tuning slide, I got the characteristic warm, mellow sound while getting as smooth or as crispy an articulation
that I wanted. Thus, I have wound up with a 1Y bell and a gold brass tuning slide.
With a 1G bell and a yellow brass tuning slide, it took too much effort to play with more crisp when needed.
I mean, I remember that back in 2010, there was a manufacturer's advice to get a gold brass tuning slide with a yellow brass bell on the website.
Personal story: when I bought my Shires in 2010, I found that with a 1Y bell, the yellow brass tuning slide sounded too strident, aggressive,
and "snappy". Using a gold brass tuning slide, I got the characteristic warm, mellow sound while getting as smooth or as crispy an articulation
that I wanted. Thus, I have wound up with a 1Y bell and a gold brass tuning slide.
With a 1G bell and a yellow brass tuning slide, it took too much effort to play with more crisp when needed.
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: sabutin on Aug 24, 2015, 08:10PMMore like a very lightweight 2B or 2B+, to me.
S.
Are you sure you're talking about the MD Plus, Sam? That's an additional model wiith a .508 slide and 8" bell, not the original with the .495 slide and 7.5" bell.
S.
Are you sure you're talking about the MD Plus, Sam? That's an additional model wiith a .508 slide and 8" bell, not the original with the .495 slide and 7.5" bell.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: louilou on Aug 24, 2015, 09:44PMThanks for the information. I was curious about The Michael Davis Plus .508 bore because I have the presumption that it would be like a King 3B -but with less funkiness in the high Bb to high D partials. I am playing now second trombone and in some songs first in a three trombone Salsa band that plays some of the Willie Colon,Hector Lavoe, Ruben Blades, Conjunto Libre, and Dimension Latina songs, among others. The King 3B is my favorite in this environment because of the tone character and the power, but I have to work hard in the high A flat to high D notes to get them to sound good. I bought an used .508 shires with a nickel silver lightweight slide, normal original brass tuning slide and the 7,75 1YM bell. I like the fact that the Shires horn is more even and plays easier and more in tune in those upper partials than the 3B, but I find the tone in the 3B to be more interesting than the Shires. The 3B has more core complexity and a greater variety of overtones than the Shires. In a perfect world, I would like the ease of playing of the Shires with the timbre of the 3B. Maybe a small change in the Shires components will do it.It was suggested to me to look into the Michael Davis Plus Model, since it might have that missing tone component. In addition, it would simplify the process of mixing and matching components.I bought the .508 Shires as is about 18 months ago (probably this horn is around 10 to 12 years old right now,). Like Sam says, everything requires personal experience and experimentation.
The MD Plus is very easy to play in the upper register, especially 8-12th partials (which are really finicky, some might say obstinate, on a King 3B). The sound is similar in breadth and size of sound, but more responsive. If you've ever compared a Jiggs 2-B to a standard 2-B you'll get a better idea of the feeling. The sound, however, is different than a 3-B.
I'd describe the tonal color as being very clear and clean. There's not a lot of extra "junk" (close, crunchy upper overtones) in the sound. This is different than a 3-B, which does have a lot of the junk in the sound. If you know this going in, you should be fine.
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I want to take this opportunity to explore a second point, it this is with my trombone hat on and not my Shires hat. You simply cannot buy a horn from one manufacturer and expect it to sound the same as a different one. Time and time again I have people that contact me wanting a horn that plays exactly like ___________, but with the clarity and ease of a Shires.
It doesn't happen that way.
I have come to find that all that extra stuff in the sound is the same stuff that makes certain things more difficult on the horn. It's a particle collider of overtones/soundwaves, sometimes avoiding each other and sometimes getting in each others' way. When you get to a note or register when they're colliding in a particular way, you get the funny or difficult notes. Or the "out of tune" harmonic. Or the longer/shorter 4th position on just this one note. That's just how it works.
Steve spent a lot of time with acousticians and experimenting to get the harmonic series to align a particular way. The "clean" way. So you get better playability. But there may not be as much junk in the sound. This isn't to say that Shires don't sound great or interesting, I really think they do, but they are different. It's math.
So the best piece of advice I can give anyone is if they want the sound of a particular horn, they need to play that horn because nothing else will be the same. If you are looking for a 3-B sound, you need to get a 3-B. You may need to play 20 to find one that plays the way you want. Or may have to accept that the sound is the trade off for the funny notes (And generations of players have done that). You want the ease of playability, you have to accept a sound change.
The MD Plus is very easy to play in the upper register, especially 8-12th partials (which are really finicky, some might say obstinate, on a King 3B). The sound is similar in breadth and size of sound, but more responsive. If you've ever compared a Jiggs 2-B to a standard 2-B you'll get a better idea of the feeling. The sound, however, is different than a 3-B.
I'd describe the tonal color as being very clear and clean. There's not a lot of extra "junk" (close, crunchy upper overtones) in the sound. This is different than a 3-B, which does have a lot of the junk in the sound. If you know this going in, you should be fine.
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I want to take this opportunity to explore a second point, it this is with my trombone hat on and not my Shires hat. You simply cannot buy a horn from one manufacturer and expect it to sound the same as a different one. Time and time again I have people that contact me wanting a horn that plays exactly like ___________, but with the clarity and ease of a Shires.
It doesn't happen that way.
I have come to find that all that extra stuff in the sound is the same stuff that makes certain things more difficult on the horn. It's a particle collider of overtones/soundwaves, sometimes avoiding each other and sometimes getting in each others' way. When you get to a note or register when they're colliding in a particular way, you get the funny or difficult notes. Or the "out of tune" harmonic. Or the longer/shorter 4th position on just this one note. That's just how it works.
Steve spent a lot of time with acousticians and experimenting to get the harmonic series to align a particular way. The "clean" way. So you get better playability. But there may not be as much junk in the sound. This isn't to say that Shires don't sound great or interesting, I really think they do, but they are different. It's math.
So the best piece of advice I can give anyone is if they want the sound of a particular horn, they need to play that horn because nothing else will be the same. If you are looking for a 3-B sound, you need to get a 3-B. You may need to play 20 to find one that plays the way you want. Or may have to accept that the sound is the trade off for the funny notes (And generations of players have done that). You want the ease of playability, you have to accept a sound change.
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ttf_sabutin
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Aug 25, 2015, 05:27AMAre you sure you're talking about the MD Plus, Sam? That's an additional model with a .508 slide and 8" bell, not the original with the .495 slide and 7.5" bell.
My bad, Gabe. I missed the word "plus." Thanks. I will delete the other post after I say something about the .508 bore plus model.
I like it a lot. Much more powerful than the smaller one; much more usable as an acoustic horn with some projecting power. Very 3B-ish but without some of the flaws of many 3Bs...not all 3Bs, though...and with a more complex sound. The only drawback, I think...and you might not call it a drawback...is the relative simplicity of the sound of a yellow brass bell 3B allows it to attack at fairly high volumes like a whip. SMACK!!! Right in your face. A good thing in some respects. I would love to spend some real time w/one of these horns. My .508 is the only size of all of my Shires horns that doesn't quite work for me. I think this one might.
S.
My bad, Gabe. I missed the word "plus." Thanks. I will delete the other post after I say something about the .508 bore plus model.
I like it a lot. Much more powerful than the smaller one; much more usable as an acoustic horn with some projecting power. Very 3B-ish but without some of the flaws of many 3Bs...not all 3Bs, though...and with a more complex sound. The only drawback, I think...and you might not call it a drawback...is the relative simplicity of the sound of a yellow brass bell 3B allows it to attack at fairly high volumes like a whip. SMACK!!! Right in your face. A good thing in some respects. I would love to spend some real time w/one of these horns. My .508 is the only size of all of my Shires horns that doesn't quite work for me. I think this one might.
S.
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
QuoteI want to take this opportunity to explore a second point, it this is with my trombone hat on and not my Shires hat. You simply cannot buy a horn from one manufacturer and expect it to sound the same as a different one. Time and time again I have people that contact me wanting a horn that plays exactly like ___________, but with the clarity and ease of a Shires.
It doesn't happen that way.
I have come to find that all that extra stuff in the sound is the same stuff that makes certain things more difficult on the horn. It's a particle collider of overtones/soundwaves, sometimes avoiding each other and sometimes getting in each others' way. When you get to a note or register when they're colliding in a particular way, you get the funny or difficult notes. Or the "out of tune" harmonic. Or the longer/shorter 4th position on just this one note. That's just how it works.
100% right.
It doesn't happen that way.
I have come to find that all that extra stuff in the sound is the same stuff that makes certain things more difficult on the horn. It's a particle collider of overtones/soundwaves, sometimes avoiding each other and sometimes getting in each others' way. When you get to a note or register when they're colliding in a particular way, you get the funny or difficult notes. Or the "out of tune" harmonic. Or the longer/shorter 4th position on just this one note. That's just how it works.
100% right.
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ttf_JohnL
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Aug 14, 2015, 08:39AMDue to production and resource demands, we have been more limited to what new flights of fancy we can take. So you got in at a good time!Too true. You only have time to mess with stuff like that when the shop isn't busy, but when the shop isn't busy, you really can't afford to spend money on projects that probably aren't commercially viable.
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ttf_r4mos
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
How do the lengths of Shires slides and Bach 42 slides compare? If I got a standard TB47 or TW47 shires slide and put a 42 tenon on it would anything be out of whack?
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: r4mos on Aug 25, 2015, 09:58AMHow do the lengths of Shires slides and Bach 42 slides compare? If I got a standard TB47 or TW47 shires slide and put a 42 tenon on it would anything be out of whack?
A Bach 42 slide is longer. Using a Shires slide on a Bach raises the pitch, which for many is a good thing. I've had to cut the tuning slide on every Bach I've owned.
A Bach 42 slide is longer. Using a Shires slide on a Bach raises the pitch, which for many is a good thing. I've had to cut the tuning slide on every Bach I've owned.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: jongjup on Aug 24, 2015, 09:54PMFor those players that go with a yellow brass bell, how popular is it to slap on a gold brass tuning slide?
I mean, I remember that back in 2010, there was a manufacturer's advice to get a gold brass tuning slide with a yellow brass bell on the website.
Personal story: when I bought my Shires in 2010, I found that with a 1Y bell, the yellow brass tuning slide sounded too strident, aggressive,
and "snappy". Using a gold brass tuning slide, I got the characteristic warm, mellow sound while getting as smooth or as crispy an articulation
that I wanted. Thus, I have wound up with a 1Y bell and a gold brass tuning slide.
With a 1G bell and a yellow brass tuning slide, it took too much effort to play with more crisp when needed.
This may have been the case once, but I no longer think it is.
In general (very general), gold brass somewhere in the horn introduces color in the lower fundamental and fifth overtones. Also, gold brass has a specific kind of bright that it gets, leaving a strong fundamental but less middle overtones. This can add color to a dull sounding horn or tame an overly bright or harsh one. The degree that this occurs depends on what parts you are changing on what part of the horn (handslide, tuning slide, leadpipe, or bell).
I think that our horns (primarily bells) have developed to a point that I think they rarely need a gold tuning slide to add color or dimension. I also think the aesthetic ideal has come to desire the brilliance and stability that an all yellow brass instrument produces. I usually see gold brass tuning slides paired with sterling leadpipes.
In your particular application, the 1Y is a relatively heavy and simple bell. Not simple in a bad way, but direct, no-nonsense "this is what I am" kind of way. Adding a gold tuning slide probably gave it some elasticity to the feel and timbre in addition to calming it down at volume. If it works, it works! That's why we make so many options.
I hope that helps!
Ben
P.S. Soemtimes, an all gold brass horn just plain works as too. There's one we did for our German dealer that was AMAZING. So lovely and colorful and bouncy and vibrant. I stayed late just so I could play it longer. I was in love with that horn and was sad to see it go. But this was a very specific set of parts, different specs/weights and the horn didn't have the magic.
I mean, I remember that back in 2010, there was a manufacturer's advice to get a gold brass tuning slide with a yellow brass bell on the website.
Personal story: when I bought my Shires in 2010, I found that with a 1Y bell, the yellow brass tuning slide sounded too strident, aggressive,
and "snappy". Using a gold brass tuning slide, I got the characteristic warm, mellow sound while getting as smooth or as crispy an articulation
that I wanted. Thus, I have wound up with a 1Y bell and a gold brass tuning slide.
With a 1G bell and a yellow brass tuning slide, it took too much effort to play with more crisp when needed.
This may have been the case once, but I no longer think it is.
In general (very general), gold brass somewhere in the horn introduces color in the lower fundamental and fifth overtones. Also, gold brass has a specific kind of bright that it gets, leaving a strong fundamental but less middle overtones. This can add color to a dull sounding horn or tame an overly bright or harsh one. The degree that this occurs depends on what parts you are changing on what part of the horn (handslide, tuning slide, leadpipe, or bell).
I think that our horns (primarily bells) have developed to a point that I think they rarely need a gold tuning slide to add color or dimension. I also think the aesthetic ideal has come to desire the brilliance and stability that an all yellow brass instrument produces. I usually see gold brass tuning slides paired with sterling leadpipes.
In your particular application, the 1Y is a relatively heavy and simple bell. Not simple in a bad way, but direct, no-nonsense "this is what I am" kind of way. Adding a gold tuning slide probably gave it some elasticity to the feel and timbre in addition to calming it down at volume. If it works, it works! That's why we make so many options.
I hope that helps!
Ben
P.S. Soemtimes, an all gold brass horn just plain works as too. There's one we did for our German dealer that was AMAZING. So lovely and colorful and bouncy and vibrant. I stayed late just so I could play it longer. I was in love with that horn and was sad to see it go. But this was a very specific set of parts, different specs/weights and the horn didn't have the magic.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Aug 25, 2015, 10:30AMA Bach 42 slide is longer. Using a Shires slide on a Bach raises the pitch, which for many is a good thing. I've had to cut the tuning slide on every Bach I've owned.
Yes, yes.
I should note that we do make a "long" slide, which is the same length as a Bach. In fact, all of the original Shires slides were this length, but so many people had trouble getting up to pitch with it that we redesigned them shorter.
In general, the longer slide had a bit more "slot" to the notes and little more stability. For some people, it's a make-or-break option. Usually for people that have been playing Bach instruments for a long time and want a similar feel (and have no pitch issues with it).
Ben
Yes, yes.
I should note that we do make a "long" slide, which is the same length as a Bach. In fact, all of the original Shires slides were this length, but so many people had trouble getting up to pitch with it that we redesigned them shorter.
In general, the longer slide had a bit more "slot" to the notes and little more stability. For some people, it's a make-or-break option. Usually for people that have been playing Bach instruments for a long time and want a similar feel (and have no pitch issues with it).
Ben
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ttf_Ellrod
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Does Shires do a satin finish on its bells?
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Ellrod on Aug 25, 2015, 05:03PM Does Shires do a satin finish on its bells?
We will do a finish that looks like brush finish, but it's applied a different way. This is an extra cost, custom, non-returnable option.
Ben
We will do a finish that looks like brush finish, but it's applied a different way. This is an extra cost, custom, non-returnable option.
Ben
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ttf_The Bone Ranger
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Hi Ben,
Is this what the current dependent trubore valve section looks like?
There's not many pictures of dependents online.
I have neck clearance issues with many valve sections (i.e. where valve tubing leave the Gb valve on independent thayers), so I play dependent thayers on my work-supplied Shires, but this horn will likely be replaced shortly, so I'm doing some homework.
Andrew
Is this what the current dependent trubore valve section looks like?
There's not many pictures of dependents online.
I have neck clearance issues with many valve sections (i.e. where valve tubing leave the Gb valve on independent thayers), so I play dependent thayers on my work-supplied Shires, but this horn will likely be replaced shortly, so I'm doing some homework.
Andrew
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Hello Andrew,
Yes, that is the current dependent Tru-Bore layout. Please let us know if you have any questions or if there is anything we can do to help when it's time to set-up your new horn!
Ben
Yes, that is the current dependent Tru-Bore layout. Please let us know if you have any questions or if there is anything we can do to help when it's time to set-up your new horn!
Ben
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ttf_Mahlerbone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I have the dependent Tru-Bore valves. They play great! With these valves the trombone feels very stable throughout all registers.
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ttf_ah64pilot
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Hey Ben,
I want to order a yellow brass #2 standard length lead pipe for my Master Series...547 bore.
Order through you or call the shop?
I want to order a yellow brass #2 standard length lead pipe for my Master Series...547 bore.
Order through you or call the shop?
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ttf_mr.deacon
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Ben would it be possible to order a Dependent Tru-Bore valve section in the older style wrap? The one where the valves are on two separate sides of the horn? I can't seem to find a picture of what the wrap looks like... but I think you know what I'm talking about.
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ttf_Ellrod
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Does Shures do a .508 with an F att? Sort of like the King 3B/F?
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: ah64pilot on Aug 30, 2015, 08:56PMHey Ben,
I want to order a yellow brass #2 standard length lead pipe for my Master Series...547 bore.
Order through you or call the shop?
Contact me at the factory, either email [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] or call 508-634-6805 x413.
I look forward to hearing from you!
Ben
I want to order a yellow brass #2 standard length lead pipe for my Master Series...547 bore.
Order through you or call the shop?
Contact me at the factory, either email [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] or call 508-634-6805 x413.
I look forward to hearing from you!
Ben
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: mr.deacon on Aug 30, 2015, 09:13PMBen would it be possible to order a Dependent Tru-Bore valve section in the older style wrap? The one where the valves are on two separate sides of the horn? I can't seem to find a picture of what the wrap looks like... but I think you know what I'm talking about.
The wrap shown above is the only wrap currently available.
We went through a few different wrap designs and settled on the current one, which is now standardized. Many of the older wraps were done through the imagination of Steve and/or the craftsmen and were not standardized (dependent Tru-Bores are a great but there is not a lot of call for them). Even if we had pictures or a model to build the old one off of, it would take away too much valuable time away from other instruments needing to be built. (Not to mention the cost of this now completely custom valve section would probably be prohibitive.)
For better or for worse, all companies evolve designs and the old ones are no longer available. In this case I think it's better. I haven't had a customer complain about this wrap, it works great, and the standardization means that it gets built in the same time as more popular valve configurations (at no extra cost) and doesn;t take away from delivering other orders in a timely fashion.
Ben
The wrap shown above is the only wrap currently available.
We went through a few different wrap designs and settled on the current one, which is now standardized. Many of the older wraps were done through the imagination of Steve and/or the craftsmen and were not standardized (dependent Tru-Bores are a great but there is not a lot of call for them). Even if we had pictures or a model to build the old one off of, it would take away too much valuable time away from other instruments needing to be built. (Not to mention the cost of this now completely custom valve section would probably be prohibitive.)
For better or for worse, all companies evolve designs and the old ones are no longer available. In this case I think it's better. I haven't had a customer complain about this wrap, it works great, and the standardization means that it gets built in the same time as more popular valve configurations (at no extra cost) and doesn;t take away from delivering other orders in a timely fashion.
Ben
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Ellrod on Aug 30, 2015, 09:52PMDoes Shures do a .508 with an F att? Sort of like the King 3B/F?
Shires can do any small bore with an F attachment. I have one myself (a dual bore .500/.508) that I have written about many times. Fellow forum member Mike Miller has one as well. They play great.
The biggest obstacle for most customers is cost, $4,795. People buying large bore trombones seem to take this in stride, but small bore players tend to balk at it. I can understand that when a decent King 3B-F can be had for less than $1,000. Then again, I have yet to play a King 3B-F that even begins to approach how good ours is.
I should know, I've bought and sold at least 8 King 3B-F and King 3B+-F trombones, and spent a lot of my money fixing or modifying them after the fact in an attempt to get them to play better. I REALLY wanted a small horn with an F attachment. Looking back on it, I probably spent as much on all of them as I did for my one Shires, and I haven;t really modified that at all.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Ben
Shires can do any small bore with an F attachment. I have one myself (a dual bore .500/.508) that I have written about many times. Fellow forum member Mike Miller has one as well. They play great.
The biggest obstacle for most customers is cost, $4,795. People buying large bore trombones seem to take this in stride, but small bore players tend to balk at it. I can understand that when a decent King 3B-F can be had for less than $1,000. Then again, I have yet to play a King 3B-F that even begins to approach how good ours is.
I should know, I've bought and sold at least 8 King 3B-F and King 3B+-F trombones, and spent a lot of my money fixing or modifying them after the fact in an attempt to get them to play better. I REALLY wanted a small horn with an F attachment. Looking back on it, I probably spent as much on all of them as I did for my one Shires, and I haven;t really modified that at all.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Ben
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ttf_bigeg
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Ben, I'd like to know a bit more about the Michael Davis + model and the reasoning behind a 7.75" bell over the 8" bell (I started a separate post a little while ago not realising there was some chat about the MD+ here already).
Also, does it come with different leadpipes, and is it balanced differently to be used without a counterweight or is that just MD's preference?
Thanks
Gareth
Also, does it come with different leadpipes, and is it balanced differently to be used without a counterweight or is that just MD's preference?
Thanks
Gareth
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: bigeg on Sep 01, 2015, 08:02AMBen, I'd like to know a bit more about the Michael Davis + model and the reasoning behind a 7.75" bell over the 8" bell (I started a separate post a little while ago not realising there was some chat about the MD+ here already).
Also, does it come with different leadpipes, and is it balanced differently to be used without a counterweight or is that just MD's preference?
Thanks
Gareth
All bells are not created equal. They are a balance of their taper and, of course, the rest of the horn. IN shires-land, the 7.75" does what most other 8" bells do on other comparable bore instruments: they provide a full sound that is also flexible enough to play in a wide variety of circumstances. Our 8" bells are little more limited, sounding more like little big horns. I didn't believe it until I tried otherwise identical models back to back myself, but there it is. And it's been reaffirmed many times over during my time here.
Both the Michael Davis and Michael Davis Plus models come with only one leadpipe, a 1.5 (in their respective bore sizes). This is the pipe that MD plays and selected for this instrument and the instrument works hand in hand with it. As such, it is the only pipe that comes with the horn (though we can and will make other leadpipes available for purchase separately).
The horn wasn't specifically designed to be used without a leadpipe, the balance is similar to other horns except that it is extremely lightweight. This does make it a bit easier to balance without the weight in my opinion. MD does not use a counterweight out of personal preference, but we added one to the horn at Mike's request because so many people requested one.
I hope that helps!
Ben
Also, does it come with different leadpipes, and is it balanced differently to be used without a counterweight or is that just MD's preference?
Thanks
Gareth
All bells are not created equal. They are a balance of their taper and, of course, the rest of the horn. IN shires-land, the 7.75" does what most other 8" bells do on other comparable bore instruments: they provide a full sound that is also flexible enough to play in a wide variety of circumstances. Our 8" bells are little more limited, sounding more like little big horns. I didn't believe it until I tried otherwise identical models back to back myself, but there it is. And it's been reaffirmed many times over during my time here.
Both the Michael Davis and Michael Davis Plus models come with only one leadpipe, a 1.5 (in their respective bore sizes). This is the pipe that MD plays and selected for this instrument and the instrument works hand in hand with it. As such, it is the only pipe that comes with the horn (though we can and will make other leadpipes available for purchase separately).
The horn wasn't specifically designed to be used without a leadpipe, the balance is similar to other horns except that it is extremely lightweight. This does make it a bit easier to balance without the weight in my opinion. MD does not use a counterweight out of personal preference, but we added one to the horn at Mike's request because so many people requested one.
I hope that helps!
Ben
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ttf_sabutin
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Sep 01, 2015, 10:32AMAll bells are not created equal. They are a balance of their taper and, of course, the rest of the horn. IN shires-land, the 7.75" does what most other 8" bells do on other comparable bore instruments: they provide a full sound that is also flexible enough to play in a wide variety of circumstances. Our 8" bells are little more limited, sounding more like little big horns. I didn't believe it until I tried otherwise identical models back to back myself, but there it is. And it's been reaffirmed many times over during my time here.
Both the Michael Davis and Michael Davis Plus models come with only one leadpipe, a 1.5 (in their respective bore sizes). This is the pipe that MD plays and selected for this instrument and the instrument works hand in hand with it. As such, it is the only pipe that comes with the horn (though we can and will make other leadpipes available for purchase separately).
The horn wasn't specifically designed to be used without a leadpipe, the balance is similar to other horns except that it is extremely lightweight. This does make it a bit easier to balance without the weight in my opinion. MD does not use a counterweight out of personal preference, but we added one to the horn at Mike's request because so many people requested one.
I hope that helps!
Ben
What he said about bell sizes. Precisely, from much experience.
S.
Both the Michael Davis and Michael Davis Plus models come with only one leadpipe, a 1.5 (in their respective bore sizes). This is the pipe that MD plays and selected for this instrument and the instrument works hand in hand with it. As such, it is the only pipe that comes with the horn (though we can and will make other leadpipes available for purchase separately).
The horn wasn't specifically designed to be used without a leadpipe, the balance is similar to other horns except that it is extremely lightweight. This does make it a bit easier to balance without the weight in my opinion. MD does not use a counterweight out of personal preference, but we added one to the horn at Mike's request because so many people requested one.
I hope that helps!
Ben
What he said about bell sizes. Precisely, from much experience.
S.
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ttf_ntap
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I have to say that both the MD and MD+ models are some of the best small bore horns I've ever played, especially the MD+, which feels like the perfect balance between the flexibility of a King, the warmth of a Bach, all while being super open, yet very responsive and very precise. . .
I have tried so many small bore horns in the past year or so, and these still float to the top, especially of the modern horns. Of course there's that perfect Mt Vernon 16 or 2b Silversonic out there, but I've found there is so much variability and a considerable amount of wonkiness that one has tolerate with older horns, it's really worth it to look into these. It also takes some of the guesswork out of the myriad of choices Shires offers...
I have tried so many small bore horns in the past year or so, and these still float to the top, especially of the modern horns. Of course there's that perfect Mt Vernon 16 or 2b Silversonic out there, but I've found there is so much variability and a considerable amount of wonkiness that one has tolerate with older horns, it's really worth it to look into these. It also takes some of the guesswork out of the myriad of choices Shires offers...
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ttf_The Bone Ranger
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Hi again, Ben.
I was going to email the following to you, but thought I might post here, as it might be useful for others, too.
Today I spent the day with a couple of Shires bass trombones, and swapped some parts around in order to get a feel for a future order for my employer.
I had the following components at my disposal:
- BII 1Y, B62-78, BGCS tuning slide, dependent axials
- BII 1YHW, B62-78, BGB tuning slide, independent axials
- B62 slide
The first horn listed is my current work-supplied horn, which was picked out by a colleague before I won the job. It's very easy to play, but I struggle to get sounds other than 'wide and warm' out of the horn without working very hard, so I rarely play it, preferring my personal Edwards bass (1149CF, dependent axials, dual bore, strangely more colourful and crisp than the similarly-specced Shires) or my mid-60's Bach 50 (more tempermental to play, but with a huge whack of character!)
From the above components, the standout setup (and to the ear of a trusted colleague) was the following:
- BII 1Y, B62, BGCS tuning slide, dependent axials
This is essentially the work-supplied horn that I dislike, but with a single bore slide. What a difference! Crisp, with much needed character, and very clear and projecting, with good clarity at the front of the sound. I intend to spend a little more time on this setup, (and do some recording to confirm my thoughts), but I could be very happy on this setup, or something similar.
If I were to be greedy and want a little more from this setup, it might be:
- a little more variability of articulation?
- perhaps a little more 'grit' or 'rub' in the sound? A little less 'pretty', for lack of a better word?
- a little less spread and girth in the valve range?
I wonder whether any of these tweaks might be useful in obtaining the above?
- one of the popular BII 7YM bells or similar
- a yellow brass tuning slide
- trubore valves
Given I'm in Australia, it's often tricky to get too many components in the same room before purchase, so any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading,
Andrew
I was going to email the following to you, but thought I might post here, as it might be useful for others, too.
Today I spent the day with a couple of Shires bass trombones, and swapped some parts around in order to get a feel for a future order for my employer.
I had the following components at my disposal:
- BII 1Y, B62-78, BGCS tuning slide, dependent axials
- BII 1YHW, B62-78, BGB tuning slide, independent axials
- B62 slide
The first horn listed is my current work-supplied horn, which was picked out by a colleague before I won the job. It's very easy to play, but I struggle to get sounds other than 'wide and warm' out of the horn without working very hard, so I rarely play it, preferring my personal Edwards bass (1149CF, dependent axials, dual bore, strangely more colourful and crisp than the similarly-specced Shires) or my mid-60's Bach 50 (more tempermental to play, but with a huge whack of character!)
From the above components, the standout setup (and to the ear of a trusted colleague) was the following:
- BII 1Y, B62, BGCS tuning slide, dependent axials
This is essentially the work-supplied horn that I dislike, but with a single bore slide. What a difference! Crisp, with much needed character, and very clear and projecting, with good clarity at the front of the sound. I intend to spend a little more time on this setup, (and do some recording to confirm my thoughts), but I could be very happy on this setup, or something similar.
If I were to be greedy and want a little more from this setup, it might be:
- a little more variability of articulation?
- perhaps a little more 'grit' or 'rub' in the sound? A little less 'pretty', for lack of a better word?
- a little less spread and girth in the valve range?
I wonder whether any of these tweaks might be useful in obtaining the above?
- one of the popular BII 7YM bells or similar
- a yellow brass tuning slide
- trubore valves
Given I'm in Australia, it's often tricky to get too many components in the same room before purchase, so any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading,
Andrew
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Andrew, given what you're describing both of what you're getting and what you want, I'd recommend first trying the BII 7YM bell and a standard yellow tuning slide, and keeping everything else the same.
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ttf_The Bone Ranger
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Sep 02, 2015, 09:32AMAndrew, given what you're describing both of what you're getting and what you want, I'd recommend first trying the BII 7YM bell and a standard yellow tuning slide, and keeping everything else the same.
Thanks Gabe,
By "standard yellow tuning slide" are you referring to a non-seamed slide, in this instance a BYC?
Andrew
Thanks Gabe,
By "standard yellow tuning slide" are you referring to a non-seamed slide, in this instance a BYC?
Andrew
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: The Bone Ranger on Sep 03, 2015, 03:49AMThanks Gabe,
By "standard yellow tuning slide" are you referring to a non-seamed slide, in this instance a BYC?
Andrew
Yes, or even a BYB. I've recently rediscovered the benefits of putting a little bit of efficiency back there.
By "standard yellow tuning slide" are you referring to a non-seamed slide, in this instance a BYC?
Andrew
Yes, or even a BYB. I've recently rediscovered the benefits of putting a little bit of efficiency back there.