TromboneChat

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:13 am**

On what record did Donald Knaub play a singel valve trombone?

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:01 am**

Basbasun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:13 am On what record did Donald Knaub play a singel valve trombone?

I have an Ithaca Brass Quintet record where Knaub is playing a 72H for the trombone line. Not really "bass trombone with 1 valve" in the sense the OP was asking.

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:39 pm**

Reply to "Babasun" about Donald Knaub : There is a spectacular recording of The Eastman Brass Quintet performing "German & English Renaissance Brass" on which Donald Knaub plays a Conn 72H single trigger horn. I just saw a vinyl copy of it on EBay. It is on the "CANDIDE" label. Dan Patrylak and Philip Collins on trumpet -- Verne Reynolds on French Horn, Donald Knaub doing the honors of playing the tenor trombone parts on a Conn 72H single trigger bass trombone, and Cherry Beauregard , tuba. I think I got all the players right since I don't have the recording at hand for reference. To my knowledge, the solo recordings that I re-mastered for Don's "RETREAD" album were all of the solo recordings that he had done up to that time. I just saw the "RETREAD" CD online at "Cherry Classics.com". He only started using a double trigger horn regularly when he became a Yamaha Clinician. My recollection is that the Reynolds Contempora he played back in 1961 was a single trigger horn also. If we'd only had cell phones with those wonderful, ready-to-go cameras back then !

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:38 pm**

That's the Ithaca Brass Quintet that I have a vinyl album of. Mine has a different title, so there must be a few of them. Given that these recordings are some 60 years old, the playing is excellent.

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:07 pm**

When you think of all the albums of fine performances of every genre that are re-issued, and consider that the performers themselves probably never saw a dime's worth of the profits that the company that did the re-issue made, it makes you wonder if you are on the right side of the horn ! Nonetheless, it perpetuates the art of so many of our brethren, that I suppose it actually borders on being a public service. Shades of Laurel & Hardy ! I'm going to spin that Candide / ESM Brass Quintet album at my first opportunity !

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:22 pm**

I'm not aware of Don Knaub teaching at Ithaca, but perhaps he did briefly? I have a couple of old Eastman Brass Quintet recordings, and I know that he's playing the tenor part on a 72H (or similar, based on the album pictures). 2bobones had the personnel correct.

Jim Scott

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:39 pm**

Jimprindle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:30 pm
bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:48 am I just listened to Nelson Riddles "The Joy Of Living" album in it's entirety on YouTube. Wow! What a tour-de-force for GR. Definitely a sound to emulate! How much "sweetening" was done in the recording studios in that period (late 50's-early 60's)? For those of you that played with or heard George Roberts live, was there a difference between his live sound and recorded sound?
I went to live concerts that featured GR from 1963-68. No matter where you sat in the auditorium (usually HS or college, once in a convention hall) with no mic, his sound projected above the accompaniment (usually not very good student bands) with no effort. A jazz sax player friend said, "Listening to him is like taking a bath in melted chocolate".

All the times I heard him, live and recorded, it was (as the studio recording guys called him) Mr. Bass Trombone.

Thanks Jim!

Wish I could talk to you some day!

Leif

Posted: **Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:25 pm**

Basbasun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:13 am On what record did Donald Knaub play a singel valve trombone?

I have this LP, and notes from Doug Yeo's website:

Donald Knaub, Bass Trombone (Recording 1). With Barry Snyder, piano. LP. Recorded 1971. Golden Crest RE-7040. Alec Wilder: Sonata, J. S. Bach: Cello Suite V - Sarabande, Jules Semler-Collery: Barcarolle et Chanson Bachique, Halsey Stevens: Sonata (for tuba or bass trombone), Samuel Adler: Canto II

In high school, I was at a summer program at Eastman and had lessons with him. In addition to the 72H, he played a silver plated 73H on a recital that summer. I think both instruments are on the album cover of his second album (notes also copied from Doug Yeo's web site):

Donald Knaub, Bass Trombone (Recording 2). With Barry Snyder, piano. LP. Recorded 1977. Golden Crest RE-7070. Johann Ernst Galliard: Sonata I, J. S. Bach: Cello Suite IV - Sarabande, Jean Michel Defaye: Deux Danses, J. S. Bach: Arias (Cantata 40 - Darzu ist erschienen der Sohn Gottes; Cantata 27 - Wer weiss, wie nae mir mein Ende; Cantata 145 - So du mit deinem Munde bekennest Jesum, Donald White: Tetra Ergon

<<The Eastman Brass Quintet performing "German & English Renaissance Brass">>..yes, terrific recording that I have on LP.

Joe Stanko

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:45 pm**

Tony Studd played in lot of ensembles. His real name was not Tony Studd:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/255111-Tony-Studd

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/tony_studd/credits/

There is more and more of this old recordings on youtube, just make a search.
He sounds amazing.....

Leif

Posted: **Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:54 am**

2bobone wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:37 pm I'm replying to comments by "Inspector 71". I was a student of Donald Knaub in 1956-61 at The Eastman School of Music. Hearing him play on a Reynolds Contempora back then was my inspiration to follow the bass trombone path [ I began studying with him as a euphonium player]. He did, indeed, switch to a Conn 72H from the Reynolds and always used a Bach 1 1/2 G --- and even a Bach 2G --- on his horns. He had an accident on a construction site as a student where he worked a summer job, during which his front teeth and lips were smashed by the collapse of a scaffold. He credits a dentist who repaired the damage sufficiently for him to manage a long and successful career as a performer and teacher. I remember vividly him showing me the lumps of scar tissue that still resided in his upper lip. He contacted me me to re-master the analogue vinyl recordings he had done throughout his career because he feared that his legacy as a performer would die away without digital replications of his work. I did so, and the resultant recording is available as "RETREAD". A remarkable man, friend and teacher. He did eventually play a Yamaha and made a video for them while being a Yamaha clinician. It is very difficult to believe that he EVER owned a Bach trombone, but not difficult to believe at all that he rarely used it. His sound was distinctive, to say the least, and a Bach would have never been his first choice. RIP, Don.

Thanks for the info. I was unaware of the Reynolds....you learn something new everyday, I guess.

Knauby had told me the story about the teeth and all. He suggested that I get an impressions of my teeth made every so often to help curb such a crisis if it were to ever arise.

Many thanks to you for your work on his albums. I was glad that they were saved. I own a few copies of the Retread. Still a learning experience with every listen.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:11 pm**

"Knauby had told me the story about the teeth and all. He suggested that I get an impressions of my teeth made every so often to help curb such a crisis if it were to ever arise. "

I heard a story about Bud Herseth's brother, who was a dentist and told Bud that he should have an impression made of his teeth in case of some bizarre accident. Unfortunately, it DID happen by way of a car accident during which Bud's face collided with the steering wheel of his car ! His brother's wise counsel was rewarded and Bud's career continued with only a slight bump in the road. I took the same advice and have plaster casts of my teeth still setting in my safe deposit box the last time I looked. By now, they are probably no longer relevant, but I hang onto them for laughs. At my age I have more important things to worry about than a bizarre accident ending my trombone playing career !

Posted: **Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am**

I just listened to Stan Kenton's "The Stage Door Swings" album for the first time. The two bass bone players were listed as Bob Olson and Bill Smiley. They sound really good! Does anyone know what horn's they were playing and when this album was recorded?

Posted: **Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:00 pm**

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am I just listened to Stan Kenton's "The Stage Door Swings" album for the first time. The two bass bone players were listed as Bob Olson and Bill Smiley. They sound really good! Does anyone know what horn's they were playing and when this album was recorded?

Not sure about this specific album, but I do know Bob Olson played a Williams 10.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:27 pm**

Bob owned two horns. The Williams 10 and a Conn 8H. I don’t know what Bill played.

Posted: **Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:26 pm**

One name that I couldn't find in the posts In Robert Harper, long time bass trombonist for the PhILadelphia Orchestra.
He played a Conn Fuchs 70H Bass Trombone I believe. You can hear and see him on YouTube on a videorecording of Ormandy conducting the Planets.

Posted: **Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:20 pm**

I met George few times and I love him and are my favorite I met and played together with Kenny Shroyer too, you can hear George on his albums and on the joy of living by Nelson Riddle and in many Sinatra 's albums, Kenny' solos on Music for wives and lovers by Riddle, rendevouz with Kenton (Stan Kenton album) tutti's trombones by Tutti Cammarata also with George Roberts on 10 trombones like two pianos by Pete Rugolo, Kenny also did a short solo on Sammy Davies jr song Ocean 11.
Tony Studd works in many albums like The Cat by Jimmy Smith, Oscar Peterson"to Nat with respect "Kai Winding incredible trombones(with Paul Faulise) Kai Ole, the Kai Winding trombones. Gil Evans out of the cool.
George Roberts played 70h, olds George Roberts model with tis and P22. Kenny Shroyer 70h mostly then modified a lot many horns like 70h with Williams bell... He give to me for 10 days in LA his 73h with Holton valves(180)and 70h inner slide and 73h outer slide... Really funny person. Tony Studd mostly on 72h. Paul Faulise 70h, 72h, holton 185,conn 62h, olds p24g, Minick 62h. All on 1 1/2 g around(Paul on bach Minick 1 1/2g).
George Roberts gift to me his minick V (1 1/2g)Kenny mostly on 1 1/2 and also 2g.Tony Studd I know him played a 1 1/2 g little over sized.

Posted: **Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:26 pm**

You can hear Alan Raph on Cabin in the sky(C. Fuller) Gerry Mulligan concert jazz band, George Benson Shape of this thing to come(on last train to clarksville you can hear his low pedal G).
Tommy Mitchell and Dick Hixson on Kai Winding album Swingin states, Dick also on Ted Mcnabb e co. big band. All on conns 70h, 72h Alan on King all life...

Posted: **Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:29 pm**

Ernie Tack also from LA with Luis Bellson, Tonight Show, Tutti ' s trombones by Cammarata. Maybe conn early 70h, 72h and from the 70's with p24g olds

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:59 am**

This is done on a single. Unfortunately I for some reason can not use a [media] [/media] tag to display this, only provide the actual url to the youTube clip.

Click at this link and you will go to youTube and have a listen to this remastered clip from 1977 with the Swedish Radio Jazz Group. Sven Larsson is the bass trombone player.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pg0SwzynjA

/Tom

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:07 am**

imsevimse wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:59 am This is done in a single. Unfortunately I for some reason can not use a [media] [/media] tag to display this, only provide the actual url to the youTube clip.

Click at this link and you will go to youTube and have a listen to this remastered clip from 1977 with the Swedish Radio Jazz group. Sven Larsson is the bass trombone player.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pg0SwzynjA

/Tom

Thanks for sharing Tom. Thats wonderful. Sven Larsson also play on some of the Astrid Lindgrens movies for children. Had lot of kids so I have seen them lot of times. Amazing bass trombone playing suddenly occurs in these movies. I think that was him. He is Basbasun on this site I think.

Lot of things we can do on a single. Lately I found out it's possible also for me to play C and B without thinking so much on all the difficulties or limits we make in our head. I just gave all these problems on the boat, and just had only one thing in mind; Put the slide wherever and just focus on the sound and pitch. Only sound and pitch, nothing else and it will come out the bell. We just have to make it simple and not be unsure like I often are. Have the pitch an sound in the ear and go straight on it. No hesitate or wondering.

Anyway Tom, thanks for the link!

Leif

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:28 am**

Savio wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:07 am
imsevimse wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:59 am This is done in a single. Unfortunately I for some reason can not use a [media] [/media] tag to display this, only provide the actual url to the youTube clip.

Click at this link and you will go to youTube and have a listen to this remastered clip from 1977 with the Swedish Radio Jazz group. Sven Larsson is the bass trombone player.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pg0SwzynjA

/Tom
Thanks for sharing Tom. Thats wonderful. Sven Larsson also play on some of the Astrid Lindgrens movies for children.
...
Only sound and pitch, nothing else and it will come out the bell. We just have to make it simple and not be unsure like I often are. Have the pitch an sound in the ear and go straight on it. No hesitate or wondering.

Anyway Tom, thanks for the link!

Leif

Yes, that's him on those movies. Can't argue with you when it comes to what's important "sound and pitch" and make it simple. If all this is in order it doesn't matter where you put the slide..... but as I think Sven would agree "The factitious notes are privileged at certain places and therefore they speak a lot better at those positions" - as he taught and showed me - but when it comes to very short notes they do not need to be perfectly in tune because our brains "make them in tune". I heard Bob MacChesney play fast scales from the middle register and up without moving the slide at all. It was so fast the brain could not keep up. Our brains get confused but decides it must have been a scale beginning on one note and ending on the upper octave. We just decide to believe all notes in between were played perfectly in tune, but I'm sure if we could slow that down quite a bit we would hear that the pitches weren't that accurate.

/Tom

Posted: **Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:00 am**

George Roberts, Bart Varsalona, Kenny Shroyer until mid 70's maybe switch to the double at time... , Tony Studd, Tommy Mitchell switch also on double the same for Paul Faulise, Dick Lieb, Dick Hixon, Barrett O'Hara, Lew Mcreary, Dick Leith, Dick Nash played only single,

Posted: **Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:43 pm**

Hi folks,
George Roberts come to my mind first with no doubt.
MD

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:27 am**

As long as this thread has come back up, I'll comment that I've found myself using my Shires single rotor option more and more often in recent months. For orchestra programs it's been about half single, half double...and for almost half of the programs when I chose a double it wasn't really necessary. More if I got even more comfortable with the low C on one valve.

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:45 am**

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:27 am As long as this thread has come back up, I'll comment that I've found myself using my Shires single rotor option more and more often in recent months. For orchestra programs it's been about half single, half double...and for almost half of the programs when I chose a double it wasn't really necessary. More if I got even more comfortable with the low C on one valve.

And thanks to CBS you’re famous!

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:07 am**

Generations of bass trombone players used a single valve. John Coffey played in the Boston Symphony on a single. Bart Varsalona "invented" big band bass trombone on a single (actually a King 5B, which we consider a large tenor). Ed Kleinhammer and Alan Ostrander started on singles.

I'd bet there were a lot of famous British pros who played on a single valve G/D bass (G bass trombone with D valve). Can we get some names from our British contingent?

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:55 pm**

Cliff Heather with the Thad/Jones Mel Lewis Orchestra played a single; pretty sure a 72H.

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Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve

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Re: Famous bass trombonists with 1 valve