TromboneChat

I saw a thread on here about all things Bach 50’s and thought I should make one for Bach 42’s!

I currently play on a Bach 42 BOF (Centennial Model) with the Meinlschmidt “open flow” valve. I remember testing this horn along with a standard Bach 42BO, a Bach 42AF, and a Conn 88HO back in 2018. I found the Bach trombones to play better than the Conn, but there was something special about the Bach 42BOF. The valve to me was a great compromise between the standard rotor of the 42BO and the Axial Flow valve on the 42AF. I ended up purchasing the 42BOF and have been playing it ever since.

What’s your Bach 42 story?

I got to try a friend's 42T back in the early 2000s, and it was outstanding. I wanted that horn. Never found a 42 anything that played that well after that.

I've had a few.

I started with a 42BO from DJ that was a pretty trash instrument. Just didn't respond or play very well at all.

Later I bought two Corp 42s, one with gold bell, at different times. I used the yellow bell one as is for a while- it was basically trashed, but played ok and I thought it had potential. I combined the two horns and a ball bearing rotor into one instrument. It played well, but I was dissatisfied (thought I would love to play it again) and traded it on for an Edwards.

Now I'm on an A47, which is basically a customized 42. It has been specialized for principal/solo playing, which shows in how it responds and sounds... it sings above a section, but doesn't really have the width to fill out a 2nd or lower part. I love it but I'm not sure if I should have such a specialized instrument for all my large bore playing. The slide plays very well on a 42, so maybe I just need a good bell section.

The best large bore tenor I have ever played is a stock 42T that my teacher has used in the orchestra for a good few years. Huge, colorful sound that projects for miles and doesn't stop at any volume... Has a perfectly easy high register to boot. Playing that horn has basically ruined most other big horns for me. He also has a 42AFG that plays as easily as any of the boutique horns you could throw up against it, but sounds like a Bach.

Along the way I have played a great many other 42s. Most are fine. They get the job done and they sound ok. A good amount of them are not good instruments, with fluffy articulations, dull sounds, dead spots, bad ranges, etc. It's the stand out horns that keep the addicts coming back.

Oh where to begin...

Our army buys silver plated Bach 42A, those with Hagmann valves. So I have been able to play a lot of these. Some where very good, some where meeh... none where bad.

In the last 4 or 5 years I bought and resold a lot of 42 Corporations, all of them where very solid horns that I would have been able to play as daily drivers.

I also had a Mount Vernon 42 with yellow bell. REALLY good horn! The low register on this baby was incredible. Middle register was very good. It felt a little closed in the high register for me.

My first large bore was a well used Bach 42 Corporation that I bought from a professional orchestra player. From what I can remember (more than 15 years ago) it was a good horn, easy playing. Got me through all my junior recitals and into the army bands.

In 2004 I sold my trustee 42 Corporation and bought a 42A with yellow bell. I honestly can't remember why I bought that horn as it never really played for me. So I took it to Mr. Hagmann in Geneva. He worked his magic on it, put the vibrabell system on and delacquered the entire horn. It became better, but it still wasn't what I looked for. So I mated it up with a goldbrass Shires slide and BOOOM. This baby is my daily driver since 2009. Since 2009 I had on and off lessons with three pro symphony players here around. All three of them wanted to buy that horn

It has hold it's own against all the Shires, Rath, Yamaha etc that came through my collection since 2009. But recently it got some serious competition by an Edwards t396A. We'll see how that competition turns out...

Every single Bach 42 that I've tried in a shop has ranged between "meh" and complete, irredeemable garbage... none that I've wanted to play, much less buy.

Every one of my friend's or teacher's horns that I've tried really got me going. They were all different, but all good. I got bitten by the 42 bug when I tried a friend's bone-stock 42BOG with a lightweight slide.

I bought a corporation 42 with an olsen valve sight unseen, and loved it. Sold it after I bought my Greenhoe, which is a super-42. Still have a 42 leadpipe in that, though!

Here's a 42 I'd love to try:



Sawday 42 refit.

http://www.brassark.com/arkupdatedtrombones.html

Anybody tried one of these?

I have 2 42`s right now . A wonderful 42BO that plays exceptional and it got even better when I switched the valve out for the Olsen Valve. I also have an Lt42G. Nice combination. Tuesday I tried a 42B (standard wrap) with a Thayer.
Horn played well, I was not impressed with the thayer valve.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:32 am Anybody tried one of these?

Yes, they're very nice.

I've had long term experience with three Bach 42s:

1. My high school's 42B, with the old style linkage. This was my first exposure to one, and they were using it as a "bass trombone". It was sadly not treated well, and I think from the 70s. Still, it did have a great sound. It was just a really nice horn. Great sound, though the F linkage was horrible, and it may have had port alignment issues.

2. My personal Bach 42CO, purchased new from Dillon Music probably in 1996? My original private teacher was BIG on straight horns, so when I went to Dillon Music, I figured, "why not get a horn that can do both?". This was a good horn, and the one I played in All State Orchestra in NJ. also played it in Region Band and All State Wind Ensemble. At that point, I really didn't know what I wanted for a trombone. It lasted a while, but I had gotten "next trombone itis" and traded it in once the much anticipated Bach 42T came out. it was a good horn, and at that point I don't think I had played on anything but a 6 1/2 AL, so I really hadn't learned how to truly play it before I traded it in.

3. My personal Bach 42T, purchased new from Dillon Music around 1999-2000, which I still own. This is a trombone, that despite the construction issues it had, is the trombone that I judge ALL other trombones by. It has a beautiful sound, the classic BACH sound. It's all yellow brass, like my 42CO was, and it is just a joy to play. Still, it came from the factory with issues, which unfortunately was somewhat common at that time.

- The outer slide was warped from the factory. This was not realized until several years of owning it. I couldn't get a nice action, so I went back to Dillon music, and they put it on a counter, and showed me the wobble. I had them fix that, and since then it has been the best moving slide I have ever owned.

- the Orla ed Thayer valve was never installed correctly from the factory. The end play hat not been properly removed, so it leaked, and lots of moisture could get in easily, which resulted in the oil mixing with water and making it slow. I finally took it up to Osmun, and they refit it, got rid of the end play, and it was great for a while. Then I had another tech work on it, as removing the end play made the main tuning slide VERY parallel, so much that it would not stay put. He expanded one leg, and also re-attached the slide receiver, which was not correctly adapted to the bottom of the thayer. As of now, it's in great shape.

However, that Orla Ed Thayer valve was one of the early teflon coated aluminum cores, not the current anodized cores they use, so it slowly is losing the coating, and has started to get some oxidation. Eventually I will have to have it replaced, most likely with an Olsen Axial Flow valve.

Still, it is a GREAT sounding horn, very open, and i don't care what people stay about standard tuning slides, this one doesn't need any reversing. I just wish I had more time to play it, as I'm mostly playing bass trombone these days.

I got my Lt42BO from a local music store in the early 90's. At the time I had a Conn 72H and a Conn 8H, but wanted a tenor with an f-attachment. The 8H was very responsive and had a great sound, so I took it with me hoping to find one just as good. The store had 3 42B's, and the one with the lt slide was the one I felt was equal to the 8H. I currently play it with either the original slide or a Courtois lightweight dual-bore (.527/.547) which makes it feel and sound between my 42 and 36.I've bought and sold other horns, but will never part with my 42.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:32 am Here's a 42 I'd love to try:



Sawday 42 refit.

http://www.brassark.com/arkupdatedtrombones.html

Anybody tried one of these?

I haven’t. Timothy Higgins, SFS principal, plays one now. I heard him in a recital about 4 months ago. He sounded wonderful.

I’ve played a few 42’s in my time. The first new horn I bought 30-odd years ago was a 42C.

I’m currently playing a friend’s stock Corporation 42B (thanks, John!), while mine is in the shop. It’s actually quite refreshing to play. Nothing incredibly outstanding about the instrument, but It has an even sound and response throughout the range of horn. And it has that Bach weight, brilliance, and depth to it.

My 42C convertible is currently in the shop to be reworked. After owning that instrument for about 3-4 years, I had it converted to a Thayer valve. I also set It up like many horns were 25-30 years ago—short open leadpipe, open neckpipe, Thayer valve, etc. I usually played it with a 42H bell. Very big, heavy, open sounding equipment, but en vogue for the time. I sold it to a friend about 17 years ago, and just bought it back this summer! A tech is doing some work on it to make it more manageable—slide work, M/K leadpipes, nickel slide crook, tapered neckpipe. Hopefully, that will make it a little easier to play—I’m only getting older!

So many people commenting that the old Bach 42Ts are the bomb.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:16 pm So many people commenting that the old Bach 42Ts are the bomb.

Plenty of really horrible 42Ts out there, though.

I've only had one long term relationship with a 42b
They issued me one in the Navy. It felt like an old galvanized trash can lid to me, but it played ok. It did what it was supposed to do. It was loud and sturdy. I've played other Bachs I actually liked, other 42s, mv36s, 16, NY6. I kept hoping it would get crushed in a big accident. After 4 years of travel and marching, I never even dented it.

I'm a Conn guy, and never made peace with the Bach feel, but for marching, and making a 16 piece band sound like 60, it was perfectly suited for that.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:43 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:16 pm So many people commenting that the old Bach 42Ts are the bomb.

Plenty of really horrible 42Ts out there, though.

Yeah, many require work to get them going good, as mine did. Also I know more than a few people who put theirs away for a few years, came back, and found that the aluminum core had oxidized quite a bit, and needed to replace the entire valve.

So the parts were good, but the assembly was not.

Still, LOTS of them sold. There was a long wait for the Gold Brass bell version. It was the first time you could get a factory horn with an Axial Flow Thayer valve aside from Edwards or Getzen. So everyone went nuts, even though they were not the best horns. I was one of those people, though these days I know better.

The bell is one point of skillful manufacturing. The assembly is another.
Has anyone reassembled the bell section of there 42 and had it play better? It was done on my 50, big change.

whitbey wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:54 am The bell is one point of skillful manufacturing. The assembly is another.
Has anyone reassembled the bell section of there 42 and had it play better? It was done on my 50, big change.

That's basically what got Gary Greenhoe in business. Reassembling Bach instruments with the manufacturing stresses released.

I bought a Corp 42B from a friend a few years back. The blow always seemed a little squirelly(technical term).

I eventually bought a Thayer valve from Benn H and had him install it.

He sent me a photo of the inside of the main tuning slide where he’d found a blob of solder.

.

I bought my 42 in 1980. It was a used straight Bach Corp model. In quite reasonable order.

I played it in the local brass band where we lived and a few other church music ensembles from time to time.

I was (and still am) an amateur learning my way around but I used to get compliments on my sound and I enjoyed playing it.

In about 2010 or 11 I sent it to Greenhoes for a valve and refurb.

It came back looking amazing and with everything in perfect order but it sounded quite different to how it was before. It took a while to get used to it. I began trying leadpipes and mouthpieces to try to get back to the sound I had before.

The LP I've found the best and have used for quite a while now is Brasslab's Hartz Mt Vernon pipe. I don't have the same sound I had before but the sound I have now is more focussed than before and easier to make clear precise articulations. The slide action is as smooth as glass.

I've flirted with a few other bones but I keep coming back to this one. It is so resonant and even. Warm and solid. It is still my favourite bone after nearly 40 years.

My first professional horn was a very early Corporation Bach 42b. It’s possible it had Mount Vernon parts on it, come to think of it.

My mom bought it for me sight unseen from ebay for super cheap. The bell had been absolutely crushed on one side, straightened, and re-lacquered. I remember the metal being so thin and flimsy on one part that I could press my fingers on the inside of the bell and the metal would wobble. The slide was perfect though. I had the valve rebuilt by Lenny Zapf, who also did all my adjustments/cleanings at the time.

Looking back, the horn was really amazing, I just didn’t realize it then. By the time I started to develop a sound, I wanted to play jazz and was set on the notion that I needed to play smaller equipment. I realize that is far from the truth now. I sold the horn before going to college for jazz performance and have never found a 42 I like as much as that one. I’m currently playing an Elkhart 8h from the same era as my 42b, and I absolutely love it.

I have a straight Bach 42 and a 42B. Both are from the 80-ies and are great horns. Must have been lucky with all talk of bad Bachs. My Bachs are very good all of them.

/Tom

imsevimse wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:18 am I have a straight Bach 42 and a 42B. Both are from the 80-ies and are great horns. Must have been lucky with all talk of bad Bachs. My Bachs are very good all of them.

/Tom

Sounds like you need a larger sample size!

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:35 am

imsevimse wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:18 am I have a straight Bach 42 and a 42B. Both are from the 80-ies and are great horns. Must have been lucky with all talk of bad Bachs. My Bachs are very good all of them.

/Tom

Sounds like you need a larger sample size!

Well, I don't exactly understand what that expression mean. I guess what you are saying is I need to try more Bachs to understand there are are a majority of bad ones?

Maybe so, but what I'm humblingly saying (in bad english) is I'm lucky that the Bach 42's I own are very good horns. I'm very fortunate to own only good horns, made by many good manufactures. There are not many bad horns around to my experience but there are a lot of dirty horns on ebay and what I guess is people sell them instead of giving them a good cleaning. Many old horns played bad when I got them off ebay but after a good cleaning they came to life. It goes for the old Bachs I bought as well as other horns. A bad slide is another thing, that can be a disaster. I'm very picky when it comes to the slide. I find it hard to play a slide that is sluggish and uneven.

/Tom

Well, it's not so much that there are really "bad ones", but they do vary a bit. Also what someone loves, another may hate. I think Vincent Bach himself liked the 1 piece bell design due to the variations it caused.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:51 pm Well, it's not so much that there are really "bad ones", but they do vary a bit. Also what someone loves, another may hate. I think Vincent Bach himself liked the 1 piece bell design due to the variations it caused.

Yes, they vary, but that goes for every horn I own. They are all different and vary a lot. To me different does not mean bad, it just takes some time to adjust and to learn the horn. The feel and what is picked up behind the bell varies a lot, but others might not notice those differences at all. Sometimes someone says the horn I'm playing sounds great, but adds the one I had last week was even better because it fit the section better. That is how bad critics can made sound positive The majority of horns I own and play is from the 19th century. I bet noone who doesn't know me and my horns would notice I always bring a new horn every time we meet. I like different, it makes me on my toes.

/Tom

Tbonesullivan:
Are there more variations between one piece bells then between two piece bells? Why?
Not questioning this; just curious!

Chatname wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:43 am Tbonesullivan:
Are there more variations between one piece bells then between two piece bells? Why?
Not questioning this; just curious!

That is how Vincent Bach thought. There is a lot more stretching that happens with a single piece bell.

Companies such as Rath who only use 2 piece bells state that allows better control of the bell thickness.

Edwards only makes 2 piece bells. Shires was the same way until more recently.

Since I got to high school, I've been playing an older (80's if I had to guess), heavily used Bach 42BO that the band program owns. The slide is pretty good (not amazing), the valve is a little clanky and almost all of the lacquer on that trombone is basically gone. The thing doesn't look great but it's not a bad horn. I've done a solo in the Balad of this year's marching band show on that horn and it took me all the way to Region Band this year. I generally play high 1st trombone parts in our concert band, but it even performed well on Low 3rd Trombone parts during Region Band. Sounds really well in all registers and I love that thing to death. Too bad I can't take it with me to college.

I had a 42bo with a 45 slide. The horn sounded great but it was very uncomfortable to play. I was constantly trying different mouthpieces trying to get it to feel better. The 45 slide really opened up the sound. If I still had it, I would seriously consider replacing the valve.

Tried some when buying my first F-attachment trombone, all stuffy and dead. Bought a Conn and enjoyed Conn for the next 20 years, though I always liked the sound some people got out of some Bach trombones.

At some point got an itch to try a 42 again and saw a cheap, used LT42 (straight) locally. Tried it, loved it, bought it. No stuffiness and surprisingly easy to play.

Decided I liked the LT42 so much I got a convertible valve section made and sold off all my Conn gear.

I still have the convertible LT42 and have added a couple of Edwards slides, a shires bell adapted to the same fittings and recently a Bach dual-bore slide and a Hölle copper tuning slide.

I tend to alternate between combinations. This week I‘m enjoying the Bach 42 bell with the original tuning slide and my custom valve section, unusually for me with the Bach .547/.562 slide. Next week it‘ll probably change. My most commonly used combinations have either a Bach slide, bell or both.

chouston3 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:01 pm I had a 42bo with a 45 slide. The horn sounded great but it was very uncomfortable to play. I was constantly trying different mouthpieces trying to get it to feel better. The 45 slide really opened up the sound. If I still had it, I would seriously consider replacing the valve.

Quick question, what do you mean by this? According to the shop cards, for horns that are old enough to have them, the 42 and 45 slides are identical. Same bore, same leadpipe. FWIW, I like my two 45 slides better than my 42 slide, but that’s because that slide needs a rebuild.

Cheers,
Andy

elmsandr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:08 am

chouston3 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:01 pm I had a 42bo with a 45 slide. The horn sounded great but it was very uncomfortable to play. I was constantly trying different mouthpieces trying to get it to feel better. The 45 slide really opened up the sound. If I still had it, I would seriously consider replacing the valve.

Quick question, what do you mean by this? According to the shop cards, for horns that are old enough to have them, the 42 and 45 slides are identical. Same bore, same leadpipe. FWIW, I like my two 45 slides better than my 42 slide, but that’s because that slide needs a rebuild.

Cheers,
Andy

My 45 slide was a dual bore (.547/.562). It sounded a lot better than my 42 slide (.547).

I am curious now if I had some kind of special order item. My teacher's dad owns a music store and I ordered it through him.

Not sure how much of a Bach 42 my horn will be considered soon, but I’m planning on having my tech swap the 42 bell with a Tennessee Williams Model 8 bell. I have a Hoelle copper tuning slide as well as MK outer slide tubes and an MK bronze slide crook to be installed as well.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:22 am
Along the way I have played a great many other 42s. Most are fine. They get the job done and they sound ok. A good amount of them are not good instruments, with fluffy articulations, dull sounds, dead spots, bad ranges, etc. It's the stand out horns that keep the addicts coming back.

very well said...

Interestingly enough, I own 2 /Bach 42BO's from the 1980's and they are "night and day".

Both have their uses, the earlier one, silver-plated, plays bright, easy to articulate, and easy to play. it is my go-to horn for playing second parts.

The "night" version plays huge! I noticed almost no difference between it and my bass trombone. The leadpipe is standard, but must be much more open than other 42's I have played. I work harder playing it, It seems to play louder, but can bark more than the "day" horn. This is the horn my son used to play Mahler!! Also it is a little harder to control the intonation than the "day" horn.

CarlVicVogel

I thought Bach 42’s just weren’t for me, after playing a decent 42B from DJ a number of years ago, and honking on a couple other Bach horns when they came across my path. But I just recently tried a friends 42T, and it PLAYS! Everything felt easy and relaxed and had a wonderful sound, and the best part? He’s selling it to me!