TromboneChat

I was thinking about ordering a 1 and 1/8 from Greg but given some of the threads here and the TTF over the years, I have a few reservations.

If you place an order through his website, are you charged immediately, even if he doesn’t have your mpc in stock and you have to wait months?

Just order through a dealer like Brass Ark or Dillons

I think that's one of the sizes that Brass Ark tries to keep in stock, according to their website. I would definitely go through a dealer, as they have a bit more pull.

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tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:27 am I think that's one of the sizes that Brass Ark tries to keep in stock, according to their website. I would definitely go through a dealer, as they have a bit more pull.

I've contacted both dillons and brass ark before, dillons quoted 9-12 months for a mouthpiece and brass ark said they had been waiting on stock from Greg black for a long time.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:00 pm I was thinking about ordering a 1 and 1/8 from Greg but given some of the threads here and the TTF over the years, I have a few reservations.

If you place an order through his website, are you charged immediately, even if he doesn’t have your mpc in stock and you have to wait months?

Yes, it charges immediately regardless of availability. You could call him to see if it's in stock, but your best bet is trying to find it through a dealer.

Bassbonechandler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:54 am I've contacted both dillons and brass ark before, dillons quoted 9-12 months for a mouthpiece and brass ark said they had been waiting on stock from Greg black for a long time.

This would be why many stores don't really deal with them anymore. Ferguson Music / Horn guys doesn't. They even started making their own line of mouthpieces with James New, which are developed off of a bunch of Minick designs, which are quite nice, if you like that rim design.

When I was looking for mouthpieces, even though I am in NJ, I never considered Greg Black, as the wait times have always been long. I had much better communication with Scott Laskey (now deceased), Karl Hammond, etc. As well as much shorter wait times, if there were any at all.

Greg's mouthpieces are very good - his customer service sometimes is not. Decide what's more important to you. The advice to try one of the stores that carries his mouthpieces is a good way to go, and seeing if he has it in stock is also not bad advice.

Jim Scott

You could always see if someone here or on Facebook has one they are willing to part with.

I've always had pretty good response times from Greg. My last order from him (a 4G/5G) arrived maybe 2 months after I ordered it. That was a few months ago.

Andrew

Dillon's often has GB's, it's just kind of a crapshoot which ones.

When I was in college, I called Black^Hill to order a mouthpiece. It went like this:

Me: uhh, hi! I saw your ads in the ITA journal. Your mouthpieces look great. I'd like to order a 4.5.
Person on phone: No.
Me: umm. OK. Thanks? Bye?
Person on phone: Bye.

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:09 pm I've always had pretty good response times from Greg. My last order from him (a 4G/5G) arrived maybe 2 months after I ordered it. That was a few months ago.

Andrew

Did you order from his website?

bbocaner wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:47 pm When I was in college, I called Black^Hill to order a mouthpiece. It went like this:

Me: uhh, hi! I saw your ads in the ITA journal. Your mouthpieces look great. I'd like to order a 4.5.
Person on phone: No.
Me: umm. OK. Thanks? Bye?
Person on phone: Bye.

Hahaha!

Bassbonechandler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:13 pm Did you order from his website?

Yes.

Andrew

I've had probably 10 or 12 Greg Black mouthpieces, and most came from the secondary market (incidentally the ones I bought "new" wound up on the secondary market!).

If he doesn't need the business, more power to him. Honestly, though, for making the most sought-after pro/custom mouthpieces out there, it sure is tough to get him to take your money.

My old teacher has several full custom pieces from Greg. My guess is that Greg prefers to do the one-off stuff, as opposed to turning out dozens of 5Gs for his distributors.

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Definitely + 1 for Zac Thornton.....

You do have to pay in full when you order off of the website. I decided to take that chance and tried. I then experienced all of the negative customer service issues and excessive wait times that you read about.

I reached out to Zac for assistance and received the piece in a week and a half.

Certainly other folks have had better experiences. However, I would recommend going through a dealer as others have said. If you decide to order directly from the website I hope your experience is better than mine.

J

I'll put in a plug for Griego Mouthpieces. They have unbelievably good customer service and can immediately ship a bass piece in the generic sizes you're requesting or within their artist lines. Their designs and craftsmanship are the best I've seen. It is very difficult to get a custom job done by them, but clearly they have the capability.

My colleague plays on the Dave Taylor piece and loves it. Seemed like everyone at ATW who was competing or was a performer had either a Pagano or Taylor piece on bass, or an Alessi tenor piece. I use both the Alessi and Bousfield lines and the designs are game changers.

Griego makes some good stuff... but it's not Greg Black

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There are several great mouthpiece makers to choose from, if you choose Greg then you know what is involved and how he works, if you want it now or tomorrow then maybe not the best choice for you

DE is my choice

There is no "them" at Greg Black, there is only "him." He runs his shop alone; no assistant to do grunt work, no secretary to answer the phone and email and do shipping. He does have blanks made on a CNC lathe (by Terry Warburton's shop) and he sends pieces out for plating, but other than that he does everything on old-school lathes by hand. Including hand-polishing every mouthpiece when it comes back from plating. I think you can hear that care and attention to detail in the sound, honestly...and maybe the speed of the machines as compared to CNC also makes a difference, who knows?

Greg is also the nicest, most accommodating guy in the world...which means that he is always over-committed. And he is - by his own admission - not particularly organized. If somebody wants to visit him, he has a really hard time saying no, and that probably sets him back a full day every time. When he's way too busy and has too many mouthpieces to get out the door he simply doesn't answer the phone or email.

So...what to do? I second the recommendation to check with the dealers that move most of his stock, and at this point that's DIllon's. They might have what you want. If not, they might already have it on a stock order. If not that, they are in contact with him more regularly than anybody else, so he will be reminded of your order.

In the meantime, go ahead and play a Hammond or a Doug Elliott (which is working better for me these days than my beautiful custom Greg Black piece) or a Griego, but keep that order open from Greg and give it a good try when you get it. If you don't like it, you will certainly be able to resell it quickly.

That definitely is something to consider. "Old School" manufacturing means old school wait times, though I would wager being "too nice" may also be a part of it, maybe most of it. While I know people have complained about wait times, I can never recall anyone complaining about the quality of Greg Black's pieces, or their sound. Being from NJ, I have many friends with his mouthpieces, and they all love them, and would never consider anyone else to get a MPC from. Though, they all got these from him back when he was in NJ.

Idon't really think the CNC process would have any impact on things. It's still a lathe, spinning at probably the same speed with the same blades. There's just a computer that tells it what to do, instead of a template. It reminds me of some of the guitar makers talking about their "fully hand made" guitars, but they also use templates and even a "duplicarver", which is a machine that lets them make several guitar bodies at the same time off the same template. Regardless of all this, there still is the final sanding, fit, and finish, which is done by hand, regardless of how the roughing out is.

I have never had anything but great service from Greg, and I have never waited more than 3 weeks for a mouthpiece. He has answered any and all questions I have had. Not sure why everyone thinks he is some elusive creature.

He takes a box full of mouthpieces to the STS workshop in GA every summer. Anyone can walk into the room where he and Shires are usually set up all week. Or you can audit the seminar for a day for $50 or so. I bought one there a few years ago but it turned out to be a tad too big, so I sold it.

A trumpet playing friend of mine grew up in Mt. Holly with Greg. He didn't know him at the time, but now they are good buddies and he takes his pieces up there to have them worked on all the time. I live about an hour south of Mt. Holly. FWIW, I have had good luck with Hammond pieces lately and they are easy to get.

Just a curiosity question . . is it worth it? Do you really get that much value-added as opposed to using any one of many other outstanding makes/models out there?

Gary wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:00 pm Just a curiosity question . . is it worth it? Do you really et that much value-added as opposed to using any one of many other outstanding makes/models out there?

Yup.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:02 pm

Gary wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:00 pm Just a curiosity question . . is it worth it? Do you really et that much value-added as opposed to using any one of many other outstanding makes/models out there?

Yup.

Actually I'd say it depends. For some they are worth it. For many of us they are not. I'm not limited by my current mouthpieces (Elliott, Wick, Warburton) so chasing a Black is not something I want to do. If Aidan finds them so much better, good luck to him.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:02 pm

Gary wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:00 pm Just a curiosity question . . is it worth it? Do you really et that much value-added as opposed to using any one of many other outstanding makes/models out there?

Yup.

That's why it is frustrating..

TuckerWoerner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:18 pm I have never had anything but great service from Greg, and I have never waited more than 3 weeks for a mouthpiece. He has answered any and all questions I have had. Not sure why everyone thinks he is some elusive creature.

So Tucker, would you mind giving Greg a call for me?


Kidding of course.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:33 pm

TuckerWoerner wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:18 pm I have never had anything but great service from Greg, and I have never waited more than 3 weeks for a mouthpiece. He has answered any and all questions I have had. Not sure why everyone thinks he is some elusive creature.

So Tucker, would you mind giving Greg a call for me?


Kidding of course.

Yeah send him an email for me, too. I've only sent 5-6.

What mainly bothers me is the VAST disparity in experiences that people seem to have when ordering from him.

I mean, if I'm waiting months, and someone else can get theirs in weeks, that's pretty upsetting.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:24 pm What mainly bothers me is the VAST disparity in experiences that people seem to have when ordering from him.

I mean, if I'm waiting months, and someone else can get theirs in weeks, that's pretty upsetting.

...but I still would want it!

Jk jk lol

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:45 pm...but I still would want it!

Jk jk lol

honestly, now I'm starting to want one too. The NY series looks interesting. Is that the series that was originally developed with Joe Alessi? The numbers seem to match up with his current Griego offerings. A New York 5.5 would seem to be just about the size I use.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:33 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:45 pm...but I still would want it!

Jk jk lol

honestly, now I'm starting to want one too. The NY series looks interesting. Is that the series that was originally developed with Joe Alessi? The numbers seem to match up with his current Griego offerings. A New York 5.5 would seem to be just about the size I use.

It's got some changes from the original Alessi line. The throat is different I believe and the rim has a rounded shape rather than flatter shape. If you can find the original Alessi series mouthpieces those tend to be very good.

I am working with Edwards now and I appreciate the kind words guys! I am working with Christan Griego but his mouthpieces are a separate thing and not part of Edwards instruments. I still play my Greg Blacks. I talk to Greg daily still but only as a friend. I have helped a lot of people get their pieces but right now I have a lot on my plate with the move and new job. I hope to get back to helping people get in contact with Greg soon!

Good luck on the new job, Zac!

Thanks Bruce!! First week done. I love it!

There are lots of great makers out there who do have great customer service. I think that if anyone wants to change mouthpiece sometime in the future, perhaps several months from now, on a very vague non specific date, then GB might be for you.
If you want a new mouthpiece in the next few days, weeks or perhaps months, I’d look elsewhere.

I should probably just leave this thread alone, and let it die out, but I just feel that I should take a second to defend Greg a bit. I've had some great service from him over the years, and have also had a couple of orders where I waited longer than I wished, and had trouble getting in touch with him. I have always been impressed with his products, both stock and custom, and never want to part with them - even when, like right now, I find myself using a mouthpiece from a different maker.

Gabe said it best - he's a really great guy who is quite good at what he does, but he's both swamped with orders and a bit disorganized. He is NOT however, in any way dishonest or trying to get anything over on his customers. Whether intentional or not, I think some of the critical posts could be interpreted to be saying that, and nothing could be further from the truth. There are people out there who are known for ripping off customers, particularly online - Greg isn't one of them.

Yes, there are many other mouthpiece makers who are also very talented, and produce great products, and many of them are better at keeping up with demand. That is a good quality to have as a business owner. Those of us who do this for a living, however, will go to great lengths to find equipment that gets you even a couple of percent more towards your "ideal" sound, or that "perfect" response, etc. For some people, that will be a Greg Black mouthpiece - for others, they will have better luck elsewhere. For most of us, it can be a moving target! All those "experiments" in my office remind me of the search.

I hope people will understand that "quick" is probably not in the cards if you're ordering from him, unless your timing is just right, but you will eventually get a very well-made item made by a great craftsman.

Jim Scott

We are spoiled and expect everything immediately or, at least, on the truck and headed our way, with tracking info, and for free, within an hour or two of placing an order.

Of course, I expect exactly this when ordering a new mpc. I can only wait so long before ordering another one!

I think there's points on both sides here that are quite valid.

Greg makes great pieces, but he also has spotty (sometimes great, sometimes not) customer service. I don't think it's out of the question to be called out on that point.

I say this as someone that has had pieces made, plays more GBs now, and is waiting on another order... after canceling it after a 6 month wait.

I think it comes down to expectations. I'm speaking about stores in general here. If the site takes your money and the product looks like it is in stock, you should expect it to be in the mail within two or three business days, with an accompanying tracking number. If you get an email after this point saying, "please wait indefinitely because the product doesn't exist", then you can reasonably be expected and justified to be upset.

If you contract someone to make something for you and pay up front, you should reasonably expect it within the quoted timeframe. If the timeframe is "indefinite".... you might be ordering a lampshade trumpet (double bell) from Monette...but you signed up to be on that wait list so bear with it.

The advice to buy from an authorized dealer that has what you want in stock, or from Greg in person either at his physical store or a convention, is really the only way to not have to worry about waitng times. If you pay up front without knowing when you'll receive what you paid for...

ZacharyThornton wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:04 am I am working with Edwards now and I appreciate the kind words guys! I am working with Christan Griego but his mouthpieces are a separate thing and not part of Edwards instruments. I still play my Greg Blacks. I talk to Greg daily still but only as a friend. I have helped a lot of people get their pieces but right now I have a lot on my plate with the move and new job. I hope to get back to helping people get in contact with Greg soon!

Maybe you can limit your daily conversations with Greg so he can get to work.

I think that if you're ordering a stock mouthpiece there should be certain expectations with "length of wait" time. However many who think they know better want a "stock piece" but with a small modification, therefore causing Greg a great deal of extra work. I know many who've sent pieces to Greg to be copied. I've watched Greg copy a mouthpiece-the amount of time it takes and the attention to detail is quite staggering.
Stick to , as others have stated, ordering from a RESPECTED Music store and don't give your money away if it's not in stock. As others have also stated he is an honest person. Any issues people have had can and should be attributed to Greg being completely overwhelmed. As far as I know he's still a one man show. Heck his wife used to address the packages when he was in New Jersey. I was there once to have a piece copied. Stacks and stacks of Priority boxes waiting to go out!!

It would also help if maybe he had disclaimers all over the place like Monette does. They are up front that mouthpieces usually take 3-6 months, unless it is in stock already. They are however more than a one person shop, so you can email to ask "do you have these in stock".

As this thread goes on I find my stance softening a bit. Time spent answering emails about how long a MPC will take is that much less time they can spend making mouthpieces. I also don't know what his process is. Maybe he waits until he has so many orders of a given size, series, or blank, and then does those.