TromboneChat

I spend a lot of time thumbing through a stack of real books looking for playable tunes. Sometimes I wonder if there's a Sinatra real book? One with a spiral or comb binding. I'd be more likely to find tunes I like In a book like that. I don't need a fully piano accompaniment, just like the real book, the melody and chords. What's your favorite Sinatra book?

That's a great idea but I don't know of one.

Sinatra sang from the "Great American Songbook". You might be able to find a piano book with a dozen of his favorite songs, but you'll do better with a list of his hits and your pile of Real Books (or Fake Books).

I found something. I ordered it, so we'll see how good it is. It's in treble clef, so I'll get some practice reading.

I read somewhere that Sinatra loved to sing in the key of Db. Maybe he really hated string players. Some of these books seem to go out of their way to talk about printing the songs in the original keys for the singers. They don't really say what that means, but I imagine it means that the songs aren't in Db.

The book has a binding you can open up on a stand, and it says " arranged in fake book format! " whatever that means. Hopefully it means melody and chords. The sample pages show a couple of tunes in melody and chord format - in the key of Db...

Anyway, we'll see how it goes.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14234 ... UTF8&psc=1

If it's decent I would buy it. Waiting for your report.

Speaking in ignorance here, what about George Roberts books arent half of those Sinatra songs? Sinatra used to ask for George if he needed a trombone player, he would have been able to answer the key signature question - we are beginning to miss these legends knowledge of times gone by.

DougHulme wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:33 pm Speaking in ignorance here, what about George Roberts books arent half of those Sinatra songs? Sinatra used to ask for George if he needed a trombone player, he would have been able to answer the key signature question - we are beginning to miss these legends knowledge of times gone by.

The Roberts books listed on Amazon don't really have what I was looking for. The Sinatra book says it has over 200 tunes, the Roberts books were music -1 and only a couple dozen pages.

But yeah, it would be great if George or even Frank himself were still around to ask questions like the Db thing.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:13 pm I read somewhere that Sinatra loved to sing in the key of Db. ... Some of these books seem to go out of their way to talk about printing the songs in the original keys for the singers. They don't really say what that means, but I imagine it means that the songs aren't in Db.

From the first Amazon reviewer:
"... be aware many, if not all, the songs are in the keys Mr. Sinatra sang in. Half of them are in Db. So, if your fingers are not happy in the key, you are in trouble."

Posaunus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:59 pm Half of them are in Db. So, if your fingers are not happy in the key, you are in trouble."

Well then, that must be where I read it. I checked out several books. Actually this one allows you to see quite a bit of the contents, and it didn't look as monochromatic as the reviewer made it sound.

I have books on Amazon and read the reviews , and honestly I worry about the mental health of about 10% of the population. Everythingis so extreme. 3 star reviews are rare, but 1 star reviews are not.

Anyway, it looks like several keys are represented in the book. If not, I'll get good at 5th position and transposing. It's all good.

I've transcribed and arranged a bunch of Sinatra charts and off the top of my head I can't remember any being in Db.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:49 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:59 pm Half of them are in Db. So, if your fingers are not happy in the key, you are in trouble."

Well then, that must be where I read it. I checked out several books. Actually this one allows you to see quite a bit of the contents, and it didn't look as monochromatic as the reviewer made it sound.

I have books on Amazon and read the reviews , and honestly I worry about the mental health of about 10% of the population. Everythingis so extreme. 3 star reviews are rare, but 1 star reviews are not.

Anyway, it looks like several keys are represented in the book. If not, I'll get good at 5th position and transposing. It's all good.

At this point I just discount 1 star reviews unless its like 100% and even then, you have to wonder if its a competitor. Seems like half the 1 star reviews also say something like, "i wish i could give it zero stars cuz i would give it zero if i could." Then proceed to write about how they didn't read the instructions and then sawed their leg off with the product and it should really include a section in the instructions (which they didn't read by their own admission) on why they shouldn't saw their leg off with the product.

Sinatra's version of "I've Got You Under my Skin" is in Db

kenkugler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:49 pm Sinatra's version of "I've Got You Under my Skin" is in Db

Love playing the bass bone line in the middle. It's also in the Michael Bouble' arrangement.

Composers choose key signatures for emotional content.

Singers ignore these and choose key signatures that make the tessitura fit their vocal range.

I remember playing some amateur shows where they changed the key of a song to fit the performer so I had to transpose on the fly. Can be a mind blowing exercise.

kenkugler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:49 pm Sinatra's version of "I've Got You Under my Skin" is in Db

Oh yeah... It lays very well there - it would be a whole lot harder to play in any other key.

I can't be the only person that likes Db...

I like every key... on tenor.
Not so much on alto.
Or on valves.

Much of my music life has been accompanying singers, primarily female, and arranging their repertoire in the best keys for them.

Sinatra wasn't the only one who sang in non-traditional keys. Try Linda Ronstadt, for one. Or Tony Bennett. It's the responsibility of the arranger/music director to put the song to be performed or recorded into the best key for the featured vocalist, and this has nothing to do with the key the song was "published" in.

In fact, I learned that publishers very often put a song in a key that fit best on the staff, without too many ledger lines, etc., and had nothing to do with how it was originally recorded.

My personal library is filled with dozens of fakebooks. Before the advent of portable computers, I once had to evacuate my house in an hour because of a fire in the hills that was headed our way. I looked around at my stuff and thought about what could never be replaced. I then grabbed a suitcase and filled it with my fakebook collection (some of which I've had for 60 years)! Now, the Real Book and many others are available in pdf or ebook format, and my own computer includes hundreds of standards from the Great American Songbook, each in at least 2 keys--the original published key, and then the key that my singer or I perform it in.

I use Sibelius music software, and this allows me to quickly and easily transpose any lead sheet into other keys or clefs. Since I started playing the trombone 1.5 years ago, I've transposed a bunch of these songs into bass clef, which I now use for learning purposes. I have the iReal Pro app on my phone, so I can take any of 2,000+ standards included in the app (e.g. I've Got You Under My Skin, or Night and Day) and play along with it in any key. (When I was practicing improvising on the flute, I'd often take a song like Stella by Starlight and play 1-2 choruses in each key, which really stretches your chops. I hope someday to be able to do that with the trombone--hopefully before I'm dead!)

I'd say, don't worry too much about finding the perfect "Sinatra fakebook." Sinatra recorded thousands of songs from Tin Pan Alley, Broadway, the Great American Songbook, and movies. You can find lists of his recordings online. The trick is to put the song you choose into the key and clef you want. The 200 songs in the Sinatra book described here is just a fraction of what he recorded. My suggestion is to get some music software (e.g. Finale or Sibelius) and learn to enter the song you want, then transpose it for your needs. Good luck!

I can't tell you how many recording sessions I went into out west (mostly Lost Wages) in the early 70's and the vocalist said "Let's take it down a major third"! So, already sight reading and now sight transposing. Even for silly little jingles for a grocery store chain or car dealership! And it was still expected to get it in the can in one, maybe two.
No pressure in my life like that anymore!

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:37 pm I can't tell you how many recording sessions I went into out west (mostly Lost Wages) in the early 70's and the vocalist said "Let's take it down a major third"! So, already sight reading and now sight transposing. Even for silly little jingles for a grocery store chain or car dealership! And it was still expected to get it in the can in one, maybe two.
No pressure in my life like that anymore!

You actually expect us to believe that a singer knew what a major third is?

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:35 pm

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:37 pm I can't tell you how many recording sessions I went into out west (mostly Lost Wages) in the early 70's and the vocalist said "Let's take it down a major third"! So, already sight reading and now sight transposing. Even for silly little jingles for a grocery store chain or car dealership! And it was still expected to get it in the can in one, maybe two.
No pressure in my life like that anymore!

You actually expect us to believe that a singer knew what a major third is?

Maybe just the musical director!

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:35 pm You actually expect us to believe that a singer knew what a major third is?

They knew that's where they always finished the song...

--Andy in OKC.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:46 am

kenkugler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:49 pm Sinatra's version of "I've Got You Under my Skin" is in Db

Oh yeah... It lays very well there - it would be a whole lot harder to play in any other key.

I play in a big band where almost all charts are vocals. It is quite common to have male and female keys, where the female key is a 3rd or 4th lower than the male. Of course, the women sing an octave higher.

I subbed in another band where IGYUMS was transcribed from the Riddle arrangement down into Bb for their female vocalist. I did have a week or so to think of the transposition of the solo (the last 2 bars have to be played per the recording). The band leader was the bass trombonist, hence his interest in doing the tune.

The tune was originally sung in 1936 by Virginia Bruce in Born To Dance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9BZo18Tss

Ok, I bought the Frank Sinatra Fakebook book on the date of the original post from Amazon, and it arrived today. Here's a bit of a review.

It is about 1" thick, in a comb binding (so it sits flat on a stand without breaking the binding), and it has 200+ Sinatra tunes written by a range of people. The arrangements are better than what's in the Real Book series. Real Book stuff is simplified, the Sinatra Fakebook has more detail, more variation, more interesting, and probably more accurate.

The music includes the melody (in treble clef), lyrics, changes. You (I) need a light to read it because the print is fairly small. Not tiny, but not as big as the Real Books.

Great selection of tunes. Was reading through it and hitting one favorite after another. Really, a lot of great tunes in this book. I'm lucky if I know one out of four in the Real Book. In this one it was like every other tune was familiar, and I'm not a crazy Sinatra fan.

As to the review on Amazon that said that Db was Sinatra's favorite, key, that may have been true, but you couldn't prove it from this book. I took a tally, shown in the second image below, and in the first half of the book, Db accounted for 8 tunes, either part or in whole. The most popular was F 12, Bb 11, Ab 11, A 10, G 9, C 9, etc... Fairly well distributed in trombone friendly keys.

The two negatives about the book are the small type and the treble clef. Treble is right between tenor and alto, sometimes I shift into one of the other clefs. I don't play enough treble for it to be second nature. More than alto, not as much as tenor. I have this tendency to read it by interval. Reading using the "grand staff" approach works for the lower lines and spaces, but not all of them, so I shift to interval playing, and then sometimes shift into tenor or alto. Anyway, it takes practice, and it's a skill everyone needs.

So this book is going to find a permanent place in the pile of books next to my stand. Big thumbs up!

Here is a picture of the FS Fakebook version of All Of Me (on the left) next to the Real Book version (on the right). You can see the simplification. You couldn't play these two at the same time because the rests and rhythms are different. Fakebook version definitely more soulful.

The second picture is of the book cover and the tally raw data I took of the keys.