TromboneChat

Hey everyone

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. Wasn't sure where it should go. I'm getting a used horn in the mail tomorrow, and I'm first of all planning on not touching the box or anything for at least a day. Then I'm going to put the whole horn in the tub with soap etc etc... but I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do besides that to make sure the trombone is safe to handle. I know it's probably enough to wash it thoroughly with soap, and run a snake through the slides, but I was just throwing this out there to see if there was something else I should do to be safe.

Thanks - stay healthy!!

Soap will be fine.

Wear gloves when first receiving it, spray the outside with Lysol, especially the handle.

As Aiden mentioned, Dish soap and cool/luke warm water will suffice to clean & disinfect the horn.
HOT water & dish soap to clean the mouthpiece, maybe a splash of Listerene followed by another HOT water rinse.

You don't been to boil the mouthpiece, probably detrimental to the silverplating anyway...

DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE WITH THE GLOVES!!

Don't immerse the bell section if there are valves (unless you're prepared to completely disassemble them).

If you're paranoid about sterility, you could run some alcohol (>60%) through the slides, then clean with an HWP Brass-Saver (soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon) followed by drying with a Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" over a cleaning rod (red sheath for medium-bore; blue sheath for large-bore slides). Do that and (after wiping everything dry with a microfiber cloth, and lubricating valves if any), you should be good to give it a blow.

The latest knowledge of the Coronavirus is that it dies on porous surfaces in a few hours but can live on hard surfaces for a couple of days. If the box has been in transit for more than 3 days it's unlikely you can pick up Corona from the packed contents. The outside of the box can be wiped with a sanitizer or soapy cloth if you are worried about who delivered it.

I wouldn't submerge a trombone in water. No need. The outside can be cleaned and wiped off with soap, and then hit with Yamaha lacquer polish, and the inside can be scrubbed with soap and rinsed out with a funnel.

Weird things happen to the lacquer around the bell bead when water gets in there, and you can mess up the cork barrel material by soaking the slide. I also would want the linkages or valves soaking in water either.

I just remember giving my trombone a bath as a kid and watching the gunk from the slide disperse through the water and get into every nook and cranny of the whole instrument.

I like to tub it up to a new-to-me used horn. A piece at a time into a cool/warm tub of water with Dawn. If there are valves I completely disassemble and leave the core and bits out of the tub to wash by hand. Slide section separate from the bell section. Ya never know if someone let something grow in the slide... then again if you’re buying from a store like Brass Ark you may just want to wipe off the box then do your usual lubrications to slides and valves.

The last horn I bought from a store was one of the dirtiest I have ever had to clean! Don't assume a shop is going to clean a used horn for you. They usually don't have the time, plus it's an added expense.

Fair play. Though I haven’t bought many horns from a shop, they’ve been higher end horns that I assume have been cared for and have been received clean and in gig-able order. Horns I get on eBay are often closet finds and can be 20-30% biology experiment.

I can't believe people are afraid to clean their instruments. If you have any concern about a new instrument, you Have to clean it. I have a hose that comes off the shower head that fits in the leadpipe. The inside of the top slide and the crook of the hand slide are the most important to get clean. Rinse them first with warm water. Then add Dawn dish soap, and snake them out. Then rinse again and let the parts drip dry.

For real disinfecting pour alcohol down the slide. Same for mouthpiece.

If you have a valve you cannot disassemble, be careful. At least clean out the neck pipe without letting water stand in the valve. I usually clean off the tuning slides and re-lube with your favorite tuning lube.

If you can disassemble (and reassemble) your valve, cleaning that can be more involved. Scrub and soak parts in vinegar. Oil and reassemble after everything is dry.

Don't play a dirty instrument. If you can't clean it, take it to someone who can. At the very minimum, clean the slide thoroughly.

It’s like cleaning, conditioning, and shining your shoes. Very relaxing.

I know a couple of repair guys who use toilet cleaner to clean out slides.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:32 pm I know a couple of repair guys who use toilet cleaner to clean out slides.

Gotta be careful about that. Toilet cleaner is intended for ceramics and often contains either lye or some acids. Left too long in a trombone they can eat the metal. I'm sure the techs know how long to leave the stuff in the trombone before bad things start to happen but us uninitiated can do more harm than good.

I use a Dawn dish soap and vinegar combo. Pour it in the horn, use your snake and cleaning rod. After a soak a good rinse is needed. I have a few old mouthpieces soldered to garden hose fittings. Makes it easy to flush out the horn and do so often often.

Pics of the mouthpieces soldered to garden hose fittings.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rubrr ... -55KRodljC
https://drive.google.com/open?id=15AN3J ... HxO4kALTNW

You did that to a Giardinelli? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Well - even the best aren't on the safe side.
But since there is a clear demand for high-quality shank-to-garden-hose adapters, you ought to ponder this business opportunity. - Make it from bronze and it will sell like hot cakes, I'm sure.

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:07 pm Wear gloves when first receiving it, spray the outside with Lysol, especially the handle.

As Aiden mentioned, Dish soap and cool/luke warm water will suffice to clean & disinfect the horn.
HOT water & dish soap to clean the mouthpiece, maybe a splash of Listerene followed by another HOT water rinse.

You don't been to boil the mouthpiece, probably detrimental to the silverplating anyway...

DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE WITH THE GLOVES!!

I contacted the makers of Listerene directly and asked if it kills COVID19. They said no.

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:49 pm I contacted the makers of Listerene directly and asked if it kills COVID19. They said no.

Unless they've actually tested it and have the FDA's approval, I wouldn't expect their lawyers to allow them to say yes, for liability reasons, even if it does.

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:49 pm

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:07 pm Wear gloves when first receiving it, spray the outside with Lysol, especially the handle.

As Aiden mentioned, Dish soap and cool/luke warm water will suffice to clean & disinfect the horn.
HOT water & dish soap to clean the mouthpiece, maybe a splash of Listerene followed by another HOT water rinse.

You don't been to boil the mouthpiece, probably detrimental to the silverplating anyway...

DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE WITH THE GLOVES!!

I contacted the makers of Listerene directly and asked if it kills COVID19. They said no.

Good to know, thank you!

I think the issue when you purchase a used instrument and have it shipped to you is generally not COVID-19 (a transient concern we hope, and in any event it's probably inactive on any surfaces of the instrument or case by the time it's delivered to you) is the accumulation of crud (and possibly corrosion) inside the tubes and valves by an inattentive previous owner. I've been lucky buying a few trombones shipped to me – all but the one I unknowingly bought from a pawn shop on eBay have arrived in pristine condition. (Thank you TromboneForum / TromboneChat sellers!)

If needed, I don't hesitate to give the slides (inner and outer) a bath in lukewarm water with Dawn or other mild detergent, use a snake if very gunky. I'd rinse with isopropyl alcohol if really worried about bacteria and viruses. Finish with an HWP Brass-Saver brush to sweep out all debris, and a Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" over a cleaning rod to dry the slide interiors. Towel-dry everything, and leave out overnight until everything is bone-dry.

Dirty valves are another issue, discussed in detail in this thread. I've never had to do anything more than flush the interior with plenty of valve oil, dry, and relubricate according to your normal protocol. I'd hate to encounter a really filthy valve!

Cases can be a problem if dirty or musty. Clean as best as you can, vacuum interior, let air out. I've seen spray cans of stuff to kill pet odor - might work for a particularly stinky one.

I think the original question is "how do I make a newly purchased trombone (new or used) safe at a time like this? We are being bombarded with news of Covid-19 spreading all around us. So far, trombone players have responded with suggestions of soaps, Dawn dish soap, acids and mouthpiece hose attachments that made Giardinelli mouthpiece aficionados cringe.

Folks, if you are purchasing a used horn these days (especially if it has been played recently), you better be careful. I don't work for the CDC and I am not an infectious disease doctor, but this is what my common sense tells me.....

*Washing an instrument in a tub with soap and warm water.........This does not remove the calcium and limescale that builds up in an instrument. Do you trust that bacterial and viral creatures aren't living in that crusty stuff? I don't!

*Dawn dish soap..........Great degreaser! However, it does not remove calcium and limescale. Again, do you trust that crusty stuff to be bacteria- and virus-free?

*Hose attachments that flush your instrument.........Nifty inventions, but will they remove the calcium and limescale?

*Acids and chemical cleaners........Ah yes, now we have something that will wash away the slime, calcium and limescale. For those who want to be very careful, the "total chemical package" would include a degreaser and an acid bath.

The different diluted acids that technicians use (hydrochloric, sulfamic, muriatic, acetic (vinegar), etc...) not only remove the calcium and limescale, they sterilize the instrument. These acids may be diluted, but they are strong enough to kill creatures. I once saw a mosquito fly over my tank of sulfamic acid and it dropped dead when it got too close. I can guarantee you that Covid-19 will not survive a 5-10 minute dip in a technician's typical acid tank.

As for the ultrasonic tanks, I don't know. Obviously, the ultrasonic waves remove the calcium and limescale, but can bacteria and viruses live in the ultrasonic solutions? Any techs out there with ultrasonic tanks have the answer?

Of course, I am offering this advise to GET YOUR NEWLY ACQUIRED INSTRUMENT CHEMICALLY CLEANED at a time when many instrument repair shops are closed due to social distancing measures. If you are not able to get a chemical cleaning, please be careful out there my trombone playing friends!

The whole rationale behind washing your hands for 20 seconds with soap is based on the fact that the shell of the virus is destroyed by soap. So if it's on your instrument, soap will kill it there just like it will kill it on your hands.

Again, let me remind everybody that the life span of Coronavirus on a hard surface is a few days at most and if the shipping took more than a day or two it should be dead.

I want to again reiterate that strong acids or alkalis can damage the alloy of the trombone if it is left soaking for too long. If you aren't sure how long to soak, get it done by somebody who does.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:24 pm You did that to a Giardinelli? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It was a damaged beyond repair mouthpiece.

Besides, all my MP are yours now. Except the bass and the pbone.

Cats - thanks for the advice. This horn was hanging out a good music shop for a while, and they told me just now that they ultrasonically cleaned it before sending it out. So there's that, plus the fact that they have been closed to the general public for about two weeks. You could still come through and try the horn if you called ahead, but I don't think anyone did. I'll let it hang out with some dawn and stuff for a bit, but I'm less worried now. That, and it's been in transit for about 4 days.

InstantMapleSyrup wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:45 am Cats - thanks for the advice. This horn was hanging out a good music shop for a while, and they told me just now that they ultrasonically cleaned it before sending it out. So there's that, plus the fact that they have been closed to the general public for about two weeks. You could still come through and try the horn if you called ahead, but I don't think anyone did. I'll let it hang out with some dawn and stuff for a bit, but I'm less worried now. That, and it's been in transit for about 4 days.

Should be good to play right out of the shipping box. Should be nothing to clean with Dawn, but it won't hurt if you're particularly worried. Just make sure the trombone is thoroughly dried. Then apply handslide and tuning slide lube, insert mouthpiece, and play!