TromboneChat

Does anyone know if the Bach Mercedes 883 marching trombone  is a relatively decent horn? I am considering buying one off of eBayfor my son to use in marching band. He has been using  a school-owned marching trombone (Dynasty) which is awful--either sounds weak/airy and flat if you're playing at a low dynamic level or blatty if you are giving it all you have, it's really hard to find the middle of a pitch (even when I'm playing it--I don't have any such issues on other trombones or baritones I've used), and the valves stick frequently. Plus it is REALLY bell-heavy (and I know that some marching trombones/baritones are designed so that the bell tips up easily...I played one in HS but I don't know what brand it was). I figure anything would be an improvement but thought I'd ask if anyone has experience with one. I can't find much info on it online since the model is discontinued (I'm guessing it is 80s era?). I would love to get him A Yamaha marching baritone but I don't have $2500 to drop on one (or even $1500 for a used one). The Bach I'm looking at has some cosmetic issues (a few dents that don't affect playing, some plating wear) but it is described as in good working order--valves work freely, slides all move, corks and felts were replaced. Thanks for your advice!

Retired band director here.  The Bach Marching Trombone was a design bought from Olds (also Reynolds); most were actually build by Blessing, and the horn was branded under all those names.  LOTS of those used in bands for years.  Generally play like S#/*.  Thin, snotty, blatty sound. 

Intonation has problems, lower range is really stuffy.  High range isn't too bad, so if you are playing first it might be okay.  Flimsy; every older band program probably his a couple of wrecked ones in the back room.

Marching trombones generally don't play very well... the best PLAYING horn for marching band would be a for-real bell front BARITONE, any brand.  Lots more sound, better tone, better intonation.  The King is practically indestructable.  Unfortunately lots of directors want that drum-corps look.  Marching baritones play a lot better than the marching trombones, but weigh a ton.  The King and Yamaha are probably the best.

If you HAVE to get a 'marching' type horn, get one of the stup-up Chinese marching Baritones, like Wessex.

John Thompson

The 883 was Bach's version of the Olds O-21; Selmer USA purchased the tooling when Olds went out of business. More compact than the DEG/Dynasty M566, with a larger bore (.515" vs. .500") with a smaller bell flare (8" vs. 8.5"). The Olds is pretty well balanced; I never noticed mine being bell-heavy.

Most trombonists seem to prefer the Olds design to the King Flugabone or the DEG/Dynasty instruments, from both a handling and a playing standpoint.

Sounds like your son is in a band that requires the use of compact marching valve trombones, so there's no use comparing them to slide trombones or baritones--he'll need to play what the director wants him to play. From my experience (which is extensive) the Bach/Blessing/Olds .515 bore is the best of the bunch, out-playing the Dynasty, King and Conn versions of the compact valve trombone. I've never played the Kanstul, but since it's design is based on the King Flugabone, I wouldn't expect it to play much better.

I disagree with JTBandMusic about the flimsiness of these horns. I see a lot that have been tossed around like footballs, and they tend to hold up well. I think they're just abused more than other instruments tend to be. I also strongly disagree with the idea that a baritone is going to be a good replacement for a marching trombone. They have completely different sounds.

I've never played the Chinese-made marching trombones, but they seem to be emulating the King, which truly is blatty in the high range and stuffy in the low range.

The only 883 I see on Ebay is really overpriced for the condition it's in. If you wait, you should be able to find a reconditioned horn with decent lacquer in that same price range.

Thank you all for the information, it was really helpful. He doesn't necessarily need a compact marching instrument--other kids in the band use slide trombones, and his director wouldn't have a problem with him carrying a baritone--but he is baritone/euphonium player and haven't learned to play slide trombone (yet), and he's a little guy and a regular baritone would be awkward for him to carry around with the kind of marching they do. He's done ok with the school horn he's been using, but as I said the tone is pretty lousy (he sounds fine on a regular upright baritone/euphonium) and it is tiring carrying the thing around and keeping the bell at the proper angle. He will probably be playing first and there are only a few low brass, so it would be good to have something that has a good high range.

The Olds ones, if you can find them, are definitely the best of the ones I've played though I've playd elss than Euph has.  That said, I actually find just a regular bell front baritone to be the most ergonomic of the valved instrument family.  You cradle it with an arm and the other arm is in a fairly resting position.  I would 100% go that route if it was an option.

I've owned that Bach marching horn as well as the Blessing made Besson equivalent and they played much better than the King Flugabone. Far less stuffy. I've read (on TTF if I recall correctly) that the ergonomics of the Kanstul horn are terrible. I stuck with the Bach until I gave up marching. No complaints.

I find horns of this type to be much easier to play while marching than any bell front baritone horn I've played. I always had trouble keeping the mouthpiece on my face. Not so with a marching trombone. YMMV.

I've owned that Bach marching horn as well as the Blessing made Besson equivalent and they played much better than the King Flugabone. Far less stuffy. I've read (on TTF if I recall correctly) that the ergonomics of the Kanstul horn are terrible. I stuck with the Bach until I gave up marching. No complaints.

I find horns of this type to be much easier to play while marching than any bell front baritone horn I've played. I always had trouble keeping the mouthpiece on my face. Not so with a marching trombone. YMMV.