TromboneChat

During this forced shut down my hunt for another bass has gotten serious. I know there are a lot of used vintage single rotor horns out there, but I'd like to look into buying a new production horn (not boutique).
What are my options for a new single rotor bass that can be pulled to "E" tuning.
I think the 110H can be pulled to E. Any other options?

The Holton Tr-183 is still being manufactured and the Bach 50 is available as a single rotor option. Also the Yamaha "Intermediate" horn: 421G. I'm pretty sure the Yamaha can be pulled to E, but not sure about the Holton or Bach.

The Yamaha 421G can't be pulled to E - it's predecessor the 321 could have the valve tuned to E.

Doesn't the 183 have a 9 inch flare?

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:37 am Doesn't the 183 have a 9 inch flare?

Yes.

Is it possible to pull the f section of the Yamaha 822G to E?

If so, that could be played without the removable second valve as an option for new high quality single valve bass.

chromebone wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:52 am Is it possible to pull the f section of the Yamaha 822G to E?

If so, that could be played without the removable second valve as an option for new high quality single valve bass.

Doubt it for the E pull. The F valve wrap is the standard Yamaha semi-open wrap, not a ton of length on those tuning slides.

Heck, some say the Bach single closed wrap gets to E... that has never been my experience. When looking at a closed/traditional wrap horn, if the non-tuning loop of that attachment is any longer than absolutely necessary, there probably isn't enough left in the tuning slide tubes to pull to a good E. You need a good 9" of additional length to get an in-tune E, and most of the time you are aiming for bE or Eb, which would be up to 18" from an in-tune F. I've got about 5" of pull until the tuning slide falls out on a standard Bach F wrap compared to 5.5 for a Thayer F wrap. Neither makes me feel great about the thing not falling out on the ground if I try to get to E.

With any number of modular horns (Edwards/Shires/etc....), you can get a single that will do everything you want a fine single to do. Then you could get a separate double section for those occasions you need the added length.

Or just get a separate tuning slide. That is, I wouldn't put the length of the tuning slide legs as the deciding factor for the horn purchase. That part is SOOO easy to fix with some spare parts. A dedicated tuning slide is relatively easy (though may be difficult to get straight from the factory).

Cheers,
Andy

You might consider whatever nice single valve and then get a custom Eb slide. That gives you everything, but you need about 20 seconds to switch. I had one for my 70h that worked well. Gave me comfortable access to low B.

The Yamaha 822 or its predecessor the 622 would be good options as well.

chromebone wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:47 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:37 am Doesn't the 183 have a 9 inch flare?

Yes.

Personally I'd avoid a 9 inch bell.

I have situations in some big band arrangements where I only have 8 beats or less to pull to E. very doable on my 72H. But I need a second horn and would like to try/buy a more modern horn.

Just throwing something out there - wouldn't it make some sense to do a single valve in either Eb or D?

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:33 pm Just throwing something out there - wouldn't it make some sense to do a single valve in either Eb or D?

Totally agree. I had a 70h with an Eb slide. It made for some 6th and 7th positions, but if you only used it when you need it, it's not that bad. Fully chromatic horn with one valve.

50B does just get to E, but nothing more than that.

So I'm going to be that guy... Why does it have to be new?

I understand the allure but at least with single valved basses, non boutique, you're limited to essentially just the Bach 50B... Which is insanely overpriced brand new.

Why not get something nice and vintage? There are a lot of closet queen single valved basses out there. Options are almost endless...

Conn 60h, 70h, 71h, 72h... Holton 169, TR185, TR183... Bach 50B (which you can now mod to your heart's content)... Kanstul 1670... Olds... Yamaha 321... Used Shires and Rath setups...

Heck you could hack up any of the previously mentioned horns and have a tech mod it your specs... or you could have any of the previously mentioned setups overhauled and pimped out by the tech of your choice to be better than it was new!

It's just a little silly to limit yourself only to new for single valved basses. I 100% respect and understanding purchasing new for other types of trombones but there are just so few new options for single valved basses on the market.

I sure wish I’d kept a Corp 50B I bought from J Stanko a few years ago.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:39 pm I sure wish I’d kept a Corp 50B I bought from J Stanko a few years ago.

Ha! I remember Joe selling that horn. That was a sweet bass! I almost bought that horn...

I still deeply regret selling the early TR185 I had... that was a killer bass.

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:34 pm Why not get something nice and vintage? There are a lot of closet queen single valved basses out there. Options are almost endless...

I definitely agree. I bought an Olds S-20, single valve, pretty unremarkable horn, certainly not very popular. I put a King Duo Gravis valve set on it, and it's now a very sweet multi-purpose small bass.

And the S-20 has a 9" bell, mentioned earlier. Maybe not for everyone, but to me it really makes it a very versatile instrument. Played it in a concert with a very cool Holst piece (Perfect Fool) where there was a lot of tuba/bass bone tag team on the loud low notes, and that horn delivered in spades. You don't need a big hoss for most bass playing.

822G with both slides pulled gets very close. I think it’s the horn you want anyway. Good middle of the road, easy to find, plays great as a single with a removable dependent valve just in case.

I was going to say - Rath single-valve bass? I guess you said no boutique horns, but I’m not sure I would call Rath a boutique horn (maybe it is, who knows).

If you are quick there are still a few Kanstul George Roberts horns floating around in stock and if you dont find a new one it will be almost new. Not only does it have a pull but most of them have a stop on it so its a real fast set. They play very nicely... Doug

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:33 pm Just throwing something out there - wouldn't it make some sense to do a single valve in either Eb or D?

With a single valve in D what are you going to about Eb 15vb?

No you guys are not that guy. You are one of the guys... I totally used to be the "I have to have new", not anymore. Barring a 50BOF production horn, I don't mind used horns. I am a convert of sorts. I sent a ratty old slide to the Slide Doctor with dents on the inner slide and torked up jacked up outs and it is the best slide, better than any new, out-of-the-case I have ever had, and will serve for many years. We are on to something... used horns have a place in our hands and need love too. I still would love a 50BOF. They could do a single Meinelschmidt too...

What about that Bartok mod thoh?

Ok...yup. Moving to the door.
*Sets off emergency exit alarm*
Nope, not that door....
*Sets off sprinkler system*

Rath R8 is a single, but the JP Rath single valve bass is quite nice.
https://www.johnpacker.co.uk/prod/jp233 ... d0QAvD_BwE

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:23 pm What about that Bartok mod thoh?

1. Have the tuba player push in the attachement tuning slide among the gliss (been done)
2. Lip dow the C a semitone (been done)
3. Play the B on V3, move the slid out a bit when you start the gliss and reverse the slide movement and end at F.
(been done) The last is the best one if you have the chops for it.

M&W will make a single bass, either open wrap or traditional, with E pull. Choice of bell construction and material, as well as choice of slide tube/crook material and width.

Currently working on a traditional wrap single with 2 piece red bell, seamed red brass tuning slide and gooseneck, gold tube/nickel crook, soldered in leadpipe, and friction bell/slide.

Also have a new TIS 2 piece red bell, yellow tube/nickel crook, single trad wrap available.

It's fun owning a trombone shop!

Hi,

I have an (old) Yamaha 322 and 822G. The 322 has a "sort of e-pull" but its a bit to short, at least for me, making the B to sharp
The 822 has no e-pull but I can get a decent C by pulling both slides on the f-attchement

Instead of hunting for a single bass with to short e-pull i suggest that you work on your "fake" tones instead. With a bith (lot of) practice they work good enough.

Look for an used Yamaha 421G. Great bass for the money. If you more into yellow brass bell the JP is an alternative, havent tried it though...

All the Best

//LL

thatme wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:48 pm I was going to say - Rath single-valve bass? I guess you said no boutique horns, but I’m not sure I would call Rath a boutique horn (maybe it is, who knows).

I wanted to ask what your definition of a boutique horn is? If you don't consider Rath, all hand built from your choice of parts to be so?

Steerpike2 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:31 am Rath R8 is a single, but the JP Rath single valve bass is quite nice.

I've tried Bill Symington's JP Rath and it's not bad at all.

S