TromboneChat

What’s your thoughts on the Holton tr181 bass trombone.
I’m getting the vibe there pretty durable like a king, I’m seeing some 30+ year old horns where there’s barely any missing lacquer or dents.
I looked on the Holton website and didn’t see they were still making trombones but I’m sure they don’t update the website often.
Are they still being made what’s the quality of today’s horns compared to the ones 20-30 years ago.
And the prices for a used one is like 2500 which is really good deal for a good quality bass.
I’m sure people won’t like them because of it being closed wrapped and having standerd rotors but I’ve played some really good closed wrapped horn.
Thanks

My first bass was a 181. I liked the big bell. I wouldn’t mind trying one again.

My first owned bass was a 181, I had it for about 6/7 years. It was a really good versatile instrument however personally I found the trigger ergonomics a bit difficult & the valves dug into the side of my neck a bit. When I was in the Army my band at the time had a Rath which was a bit beaten up - who on earth uses a Rath for marching band!!! - but always used the Holton for non marching gigs.

A few years ago when I was in between bones I was using the brass bands Yamaha 613 but someone gave me a loan of their 181 for a couple of weeks and it was just as enjoyable to play - much better than the Yam in my opinion so you won't go wrong with one.

Ross

Solid meh. For 2500 there are better choices, I think.

Main problem is that they are over-braced so not as resonant as they could be.
I had one which formed the basis of my Frankenbone bass. Mick Rath did an amazing job on it, converting it to open wrap and losing some of the braces in the meantime. End product is an amazing bass.

Cheers

Stewbones43

Are the older ones better or worse than the new ones

Older were best. 1962 saw the 169 come in. Great horn. Through the 60's, 70's they were good. In the 1980's things started to slip. After that just the odd good one.
They are out of fashion pretty much everywhere... but old ones are good...surprisingly good. I have heard and sat next to too many great players using one to dismiss them. Those that trash them have probably only experienced examples from the last 20 years . The TR 181 is the least successful model Holton made. Began in late '70's ?
there are underpriced gems....and a lot of rubbish out there.

Chris

The TR180 came on the market at the end of the 60's and was not well received. 9.5 inch bell with dependent rotors with sax like rollers in between. I the early 70's Holton hooked up with Lewis Van Haney who redesigned the horn: 10 inch bell, .580 - .590 thru the rotors and valve tubing, and Glanz trigger setup. The Haney version was in pre release demo mode at the end of 1972 when I was studying with him. He picked out mine for me, one of the earliest production versions made, in December of 1972. In January or February of 1973 the horn went to general distribution market. I used that horn (new bell put on in 1978) until 2005 when I officially retired it. I still have it. I replaced that one with a modified version of the same horn in 2005 (split triggers and opened D wrap) only 19 serial numbers newer than the one Haney picked out for me. I officially retired that horn in 2018, and now perform bass trombone on an XO Brass 1240-RL. I've used King, Shires, Edwards, Rath, et al, bass trombones but always returned to the Holton...it just suited me the best...until I found the XO Brass bass bone!

The TR181 came out in the later 70's to account for the desire to have in-line rotors. Haney worked a lot on this horn, as did Dave Taylor, but neither got a lot of credit for their work. Haney, at that time, went over to King and was instrumental in creating the 7B and 8B bass trombones. He also had some input onto the Benge 290 the Kagrices are credited with.

From what I’m seeing there undervalued and there still being made today so they must be pretty good horns overall, the issue I’m hearing is that there over-braced.

There are lots of good horns out there, lots of good horns mentioned above. I tested and owned lots of good Holtons. But sorry to say, all the 181 I tried where not among the good ones.