TromboneChat

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:22 pm**

I play on a yamaha 58 for euphonium, 0AL for bass, and 4G for tenor, im not really happy with the 0AL but my teacher (trumpet player) says thats a normal mouthpiece for bass and i should stick with it. I dont really want to listen to him so im wondering what to try.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:38 pm**

What don't you like about the 0AL? Acceptable bass trombone mouthpieces range from 2G to 95 and I'd say the 0AL is a "normal" mouthpiece

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:39 pm**

bassbone721 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:38 pm What don't you like about the 0AL? Acceptable bass trombone mouthpieces range from 2G to 95 and I'd say the 0AL is a "normal" mouthpiece

Its too big, i cant connect my low register to my middle register like i can if i put my 58 in there.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:41 pm**

What is it about the 0AL you are unhappy with?

If you like the feel of the Yamaha rim with your euphonium, you might try that piece on the bass, or possibly look for a Yamaha 59, 60, or Yeo, all of which are fully acceptable bass mouthpieces.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:49 pm**

58 is a bass mpc, isn’t it? About the size of a 1 and 1/2G?

Time for a run through the “Who in their right mind...”?

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:51 pm**

Bach5G wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:49 pm 58 is a bass mpc, isn’t it? About the size of a 1 and 1/2G?

Time for a run through the “Who in their right mind...”?

Right? Honestly the real problem here isn't the size of the 58 for bass but that the 58 is too large for Euph. OP should try using the 4G in the Euph instead.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:45 pm**

Smaller number must mean better

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:52 pm**

Nothing wrong with a 58 size on euphonium if it gives the sound and range you need and want.

There are lots of possible reasons why the 0AL isn't working and you're not connecting low register to middle register; to start with the 0AL is a bit of an oddity. It's not a very big rim (not much bigger than the 58) but has an extremely deep cup.
It could also be something physical you're either doing or not doing.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:16 pm**

Elow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:22 pm I dont really want to listen to him so im wondering what to try.

I can’t ignore this line... why don’t you want to listen to him? If you don’t want to listen to him, then why are you studying with him?

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:25 pm**

ZacharyThornton wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:16 pm
Elow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:22 pm I dont really want to listen to him so im wondering what to try.
I can’t ignore this line... why don’t you want to listen to him? If you don’t want to listen to him, then why are you studying with him?

He’s my high school teacher, he’s a cool dude except he wants me to play on a mouthpiece that doesn’t suit me

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:25 am**

0AL would have been much too big for me when I was in high school. [I was not a large person.]

Teacher should pay some respect to anatomy and physiology.

I'm surprised that he would say the 0AL is a "normal" bass trombone mouthpiece. Yamaha 58 is actually probably better as a "starter" bass trombone piece.

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:56 am**

Elow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:25 pm
ZacharyThornton wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:16 pm
I can’t ignore this line... why don’t you want to listen to him? If you don’t want to listen to him, then why are you studying with him?
He’s my high school teacher, he’s a cool dude except he wants me to play on a mouthpiece that doesn’t suit me

I get this. I studied with my junior high band director, a trumpet player, for too long. I loved the man dearly. I progressed quickly, but he overlooked some fundamental faults I developed because he didn't spot and correct what should have been fairly obvious.

I am not speaking ill of my dear friend. But I learned from that experience and with our daughter (an excellent high school player) we have periodically switched teachers. She learns from the fresh perspective.

You may not have the luxury to switch. I have no idea about your circumstances. I would definitely encourage you to contact good high school or college trombone teachers and ask for a courtesy lesson or two. All the better if they play bass bone. There is an outstanding bass bone player in my area who teaches at a middle school. He's a first call player, but pays the bills by teaching middle school kids -- something he loves to do.

--Andy in OKC

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:09 am**

I agree with Doug that the 0AL is a very strange and unbalanced mouthpiece. I've never known anybody to play one professionally.

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:21 pm**

I think the Yamaha 58 is closer to a 2G maybe? I have a large shank Yamaha 58 that was the stock mouthpiece with my YBL-612RII bass trombone. The large shank version is DEFINITELY a bass trombone mouthpiece, though maybe a small one. It's pretty good for just starting out, and since you are already used to it, I would just use it.

Do you have a small shank 58 or a large shank? I can't remember if they even have a small shank version.

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:39 pm**

I doubt there's a small shank 58. It is a very small bass mouthpiece FWIW.

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:05 pm**

The Yamaha 58L mouthpiece (available large shank only, I believe), is typically pretty close to a Bach 2G (but with a larger throat). I say typically, because someone recently gave me a second 58L (to the one supplied with my Yamaha YBL-421G bass trombone) - and it is clearly larger - bigger than my 1½G! I thought Yamaha had a reputation for consistency! I call this little jewel a "58½".

Here are some Cup I.D. and Throat dimensions (mm / inch) of five small bass trombone pieces:

Bach 2G: ~26.83 / 1.056" || 6.91 / 0.272"
Bach 1½G: ~27.10 / 1.067" || 7.04 / 0.277"
Yamaha 58L: ~26.90 / 1.060" || 7.40 / 0.291"
Yamaha 58½L: ~27.20 / 1.070” || 7.40 / 0.291"
Denis Wick 2AL: ~26.90 / 1.060" || 7.42 / 0.292"

Posted: **Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:38 am**

As someone else has said, you may have reached the point of needing to change teachers, while applauding your loyalty to your current one you are starting to disagree on his ideas for what equipment you should be using so at the very least I would suggest that you seek out a pro bass bone player and have a lesson or two see what he/she says about everything

One other point is that your at HS and playing 3 instruments, so how do you split your practice time, are you concentrating more on one than the others? What is your goal?

On a forum like this you will get lots of suggestions about bigger/smaller but no one can really say without seeing or hearing you play........

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 2:34 pm**

ZacharyThornton wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:16 pm
Elow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:22 pm I dont really want to listen to him so im wondering what to try.
I can’t ignore this line... why don’t you want to listen to him? If you don’t want to listen to him, then why are you studying with him?

I don’t know how old the op is or anything about him really, but if I came to my teacher and told him a mouthpiece is not working and his reply was similar to what was posted, I am not sure I wouldn’t listen to him either. Teachers aren’t perfect and need to know what they don’t know. I am not an equipment guy. I know what works for me, but if there are weird things going on with a student, I refer them. I feel like I am a good general practitioner, and when their is a need for something specific, I send them to a specialist. Just like in the medical field.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 2:57 pm**

GBP wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:34 pm I don’t know how old the op is or anything about him really, ...

Elow (OP) is a high school student. Teacher (trumpet player and "a cool dude") is probably his band director.

Not too many options for Elow other than to smile politely and say "that Wick 0AL mouthpiece just doesn't suit my anatomy; other bass trombonists may be built differently. I'd really prefer to play the Yamaha 58L which works well for many other young bass trombonists."

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 3:09 pm**

Plug the 58 in your bass trombone. If it’s better than the Wick, there’s your answer for now.

I wanted to make the Wick 0AL work for me rather than start down the trail of the perfect bass mpc, but I just couldn’t seem to. Better alternatives, not too expensive, would be a Bach 1 and 1/4G (not GM) or maybe Yamaha 59 or 60.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 5:49 pm**

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:57 pm
GBP wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:34 pm I don’t know how old the op is or anything about him really, ...
Elow (OP) is a high school student. Teacher (trumpet player and "a cool dude") is probably his band director.

Not too many options for Elow other than to smile politely and say "that Wick 0AL mouthpiece just doesn't suit my anatomy; other bass trombonists may be built differently. I'd really prefer to play the Yamaha 58L which works well for many other young bass trombonists."

This.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 pm**

Bach5G wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 3:09 pm Plug the 58 in your bass trombone. If it’s better than the Wick, there’s your answer for now.

I wanted to make the Wick 0AL work for me rather than start down the trail of the perfect bass mpc, but I just couldn’t seem to. Better alternatives, not too expensive, would be a Bach 1 and 1/4G (not GM) or maybe Yamaha 59 or 60.

I work at a music store so i have the luxury of testing mouthpieces until my lunch break is over so i tried a bunch and found a yamaha 59 plays wells so i’m going to try that.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 11:30 pm**

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:57 pm
GBP wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:34 pm I don’t know how old the op is or anything about him really, ...
Elow (OP) is a high school student. Teacher (trumpet player and "a cool dude") is probably his band director.

Not too many options for Elow other than to smile politely and say "that Wick 0AL mouthpiece just doesn't suit my anatomy; other bass trombonists may be built differently. I'd really prefer to play the Yamaha 58L which works well for many other young bass trombonists."

It’s not a problem now, due to school being canceled until fall, so i’ll have that talk with him at marching camp

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2020 11:47 pm**

Elow wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 pm
Bach5G wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 3:09 pm

I work at a music store so i have the luxury of testing mouthpieces until my lunch break is over so i tried a bunch and found a yamaha 59 plays wells so i’m going to try that.
The 58 in your euph, a 4G in your tenor, and a Yam 59 in your bass all sounds pretty sensible to me.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2020 9:13 am**

Elow wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 pm
Bach5G wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 3:09 pm Plug the 58 in your bass trombone. If it’s better than the Wick, there’s your answer for now.

I wanted to make the Wick 0AL work for me rather than start down the trail of the perfect bass mpc, but I just couldn’t seem to. Better alternatives, not too expensive, would be a Bach 1 and 1/4G (not GM) or maybe Yamaha 59 or 60.
I work at a music store so i have the luxury of testing mouthpieces until my lunch break is over so i tried a bunch and found a yamaha 59 plays wells so i’m going to try that.

That Yamaha 59 is a pretty good mouthpiece for sure. Stick with it for awhile.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 am**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:13 am
Elow wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 pm
I work at a music store so i have the luxury of testing mouthpieces until my lunch break is over so i tried a bunch and found a yamaha 59 plays wells so i’m going to try that.
That Yamaha 59 is a pretty good mouthpiece for sure. Stick with it for awhile.

The (older?) Yamaha 59 that I tried is indeed a nice piece. About the size of a Schilke 58; a bit larger than a Bach 1½G. More open than the (also nice small bass trombone piece) Yamaha 58.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2020 12:04 pm**

I also like the Yamaha 58, 59 & 60 mouthpieces. Actually, I also like the Yeo but it's just too large for me to double between tenor on a Sullivan and a Yeo on bass (and I don't really have the lungs for it either). So I'm currently maxing with the 60 on bass. What I like about the openness on all of them is that I believe it helps me with the low trigger notes. They all seem to work better on my 421G than either the Bach 1.5G or 1.25G.

I have tried a wide variety of Bach and Yamaha bass mouthpieces. They all work. But I like the sound better on the Yamaha mouthpieces as played on my 421G and for what I want to do with the set-up. A different bass and/or a different purpose would probably necessitate a different mouthpiece requirement for me.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2020 12:31 pm**

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 am
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:13 am

That Yamaha 59 is a pretty good mouthpiece for sure. Stick with it for awhile.
The (older?) Yamaha 59 that I tried is indeed a nice piece. About the size of a Schilke 58; a bit larger than a Bach 1½G. More open than the (also nice small bass trombone piece) Yamaha 58.

I'd be careful about comparing the Yamaha 59 to the pieces you mentioned, especially a Bach 1 and 1/2G. The Yamaha 59 is smaller, about the same size, and slightly bigger than all of the 1 and 1/2Gs I own. Forget specs. Bach 1 and 1/2gs are wildly inconsistent.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2020 2:18 pm**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 12:31 pm
Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 am
The (older?) Yamaha 59 that I tried is indeed a nice piece. About the size of a Schilke 58; a bit larger than a Bach 1½G. More open than the (also nice small bass trombone piece) Yamaha 58.
I'd be careful about comparing the Yamaha 59 to the pieces you mentioned, especially a Bach 1 and 1/2G. The Yamaha 59 is smaller, about the same size, and slightly bigger than all of the 1 and 1/2Gs I own. Forget specs. Bach 1 and 1/2gs are wildly inconsistent.

My bad. Sample-to-sample variation is apparently rather wide. I should have said "a bit larger than MY Bach 1½G." I have a Conn 1½G that has a cup about the same diameter as MY Yamaha 59 (larger than my single sample of a Bach 1½G). Both 1½G samples have smaller throats than my rather old Yamaha 59 (which may also be variable from sample-to-sample – I have two Yamaha 58 pieces with quite different cups!).

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2020 2:22 pm**

My experience has been that Yamaha mouthpieces are one size smaller than a similarly described Schilke. (Schilke was involved in designing Yamaha mouthpieces at one point). So, in other words, the Yamaha 59 will be relatively similar to a Schilke 58 (which is relatively similar to a Bach 1 1/2). Generally speaking.

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2020 9:44 am**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 12:31 pm
Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 am

The (older?) Yamaha 59 that I tried is indeed a nice piece. About the size of a Schilke 58; a bit larger than a Bach 1½G. More open than the (also nice small bass trombone piece) Yamaha 58.
I'd be careful about comparing the Yamaha 59 to the pieces you mentioned, especially a Bach 1 and 1/2G. The Yamaha 59 is smaller, about the same size, and slightly bigger than all of the 1 and 1/2Gs I own. Forget specs. Bach 1 and 1/2gs are wildly inconsistent.

--Andy in OKC

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2020 12:02 pm**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 12:31 pm I'd be careful about comparing the Yamaha 59 to the pieces you mentioned, especially a Bach 1 and 1/2G. The Yamaha 59 is smaller, about the same size, and slightly bigger than all of the 1 and 1/2Gs I own. Forget specs. Bach 1 and 1/2gs are wildly inconsistent.

Lesson learned. I've never compared Bach 1½Gs (I only have one), but I was surprised to discover that Yamaha mouthpieces are also somewhat inconsistent. Older Yamahas can be quite different from newer ones. Somehow, I have two Yamaha 58 pieces, from (I think) about the same era. They look identical, but one has a cup I.D. (using my primitive measurement method) of ~26.90mm, and the other (which I call my "58½") measures ~27.20mm. Throats are identical at 7.40mm. They play (a bit) differently!

Yamaha's spec for the 58 mouthpiece are 26.84mm cup I.D. and 7.25mm throat.

Caveat emptor!

Posted: **Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:11 pm**

I'm in at the end of this discussion. But I was wondering if the Schilke were considered? Sounds like Elow is in an ideal position to try different pieces. I'm running a Holton TR180. Use a throat opened Schilke 60 when I'm filling in on tuba charts, a straight Schilke 60 in orchestra, Schilke 58 in a pops orchestra (better sound match with the other bones). I've been trying a Dennis Wick 1 AL more because I really like the feel of the Wick I'm using for my Bach 42. The 1AL has the feel of the Schilke 58. More open than the Bach 1.5 G. Not as easy on the pedal tones. But very nice run from low to high, like the Schilke 58. Too many choices!!!

Posted: **Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:34 pm**

vetsurginc wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:11 pm I'm in at the end of this discussion. But I was wondering if the Schilke were considered? Sounds like Elow is in an ideal position to try different pieces. I'm running a Holton TR180. Use a throat opened Schilke 60 when I'm filling in on tuba charts, a straight Schilke 60 in orchestra, Schilke 58 in a pops orchestra (better sound match with the other bones). I've been trying a Dennis Wick 1 AL more because I really like the feel of the Wick I'm using for my Bach 42. The 1AL has the feel of the Schilke 58. More open than the Bach 1.5 G. Not as easy on the pedal tones. But very nice run from low to high, like the Schilke 58. Too many choices!!!

I play on both a Schilke 59 and 60 myself; the 59 for me is my favorite for all-around band and orchestral work. If I am playing orchestral works that double or blend with the tuba part a lot, i.e. Rimsky-Korsakov's Le Coq d'Or that I played last fall, then I can blend better on the 60. I also like the Yamaha 59, a fine piece. I've tried to make the Denis Wicks 0 and 1 AL for me, but their rims are just too flat for my chops, and I lose a lot of flexibility.

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:46 pm**

Error on my part. It is a Schilke 59 not 58. It is a sweet piece. The 1AL is less tiring running in the upper Bp C range. But 59 and 60 both go there too. Just don't last as long (and then again what is a bass bone doing up there other than short stints

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