TromboneChat

Using lockdown to revisit various trombones and mouthpieces. Aiming to improve flexibility, to do reliable lip trills, as well as build upper range and stamina. Apologies if this is too long, my situation is:

My Olds 3 mouthpiece (in an Olds Recording) has a comfortable/wide rim, and reasonable cup size for the soul/blues gigs I do. Predictability upper range and stamina are ok due to the wide rim, but flexibility is not as good as on other set ups.

My Wedge mouthpiece Bach 6.75 equivalent) is fine in my King 3B+, although struggles a little in lowest parts of the lower register. Used mainly on 3rd parts in big band. Its ok in the King but the different shank sizes mean that the tuning and slotting when I used it in the Recording were adversely affected. Rim is sometimes a little uncomfortable when playing high for a long time. It has helped my range and stamina in the couple of years I’ve had it.

Using a Bach 3G piece in a King 4B I have not played for ages feels comfortable with less ‘bite’ on the lips than the Wedge. The rim is comfortable and the deep cup, unsurprisingly, well suited for lower register, but the size of the piece and the larger bore of the instrument mean I struggle in the upper register. Flexibility is pretty good with this.

The question: is there a single mouthpiece that combines the Bach 3G rim width comfort with the Bach/Wedge 6.75 cup size that would help range and flexibility in both the Olds and King 3B+?

I lack the equipment and skills to measure the rim widths of the mouthpieces. The Bach catalogue describes the rims of both the 3G and the various 6 models as ‘medium wide, well rounded’. Not sure if that means the 3G and 6s all measure the same width, or are medium in proportion to the mouthpiece diameter. If they all measure the same should I just try a Bach 6.75, 6.5 or 6A for the 3B+ and see how things go with it on the Olds. What do you think? To be honest the 4B/3G thing is not too much of an issue as I would only play this set up on lower end parts in wind band. Any advice gratefully received.

Yes. Doug Elliott

Yeah, a DE 104 or 103 XT with a C+ or D cup and D3 shank might be just the ticket for your 3B. I use something similar and I love it. Ask him about if you can trial a few items, and if so, return whatever setup doesn't work as well.

I take it for granted that people here know what I do, but maybe not. I make modular 3 piece mouthpieces and you can put together virtually any combination you can imagine.

For your purposes I would probably recommend XT 103 or 104 rim, C+ cup, and D4 shank, although personally I would use a deeper cup than that on the 3B+. For the smaller horn you'd want a D2 or D3 shank. Or use a D3 in both.

That's very close to what I use myself, on a .500 bore. If you want to know what it sounds like search my name on YouTube, there are plenty of recordings of me in a lot of different settings.

I see Harrison was typing exactly the same thing at the same time. Glad we agree.

Sowwy Doug. I just remember what you had recommended for me. Over the phone. Based on like two sentences. And I still use it on a daily basis, because it's that good.

But I don't want to step on your feet when it comes to your mouthpieces. I got excited. I forgot the 3B+ wasn't a .508 horn, D4 is the right shank for that horn.

OP listen to Doug Elliott!

OP....a mouthpiece does not DO anything...it allows YOU to do things. Some allow more than others....

Chris

Doug, do you make a special shank for his Olds Recording? I suspect he has the one with the somewhat smaller shank.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:38 am Doug, do you make a special shank for his Olds Recording? I suspect he has the one with the somewhat smaller shank.

Options

SHANKS
The taper on the mouthpiece shank should be the same as the taper in the instrument's receiver to avoid gaps or disturbances in the air column of the instrument, and to fit well without wobbling. Customization, in size, length, taper, or backbore, can sometimes produce significant improvements in an instrument's pitch or response, and is offered at no extra charge. Some receivers, however, are impossible to fit perfectly due to faulty tapers or an out-of-round condition. Special shanks can be made to fit any brass instrument. The throat is unique to each cup, and is designed for maximum efficiency. Please order shanks with letters that match the cups you’ve ordered - except the + sizes as noted above.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:32 am Sowwy Doug. I just remember what you had recommended for me. Over the phone. Based on like two sentences. And I still use it on a daily basis, because it's that good.

But I don't want to step on your feet when it comes to your mouthpieces. I got excited. I forgot the 3B+ wasn't a .508 horn, D4 is the right shank for that horn.

OP listen to Doug Elliott!

Seconded. To paraphrase another commercial, 15 minutes could save you hundreds (in other mouthpieces).

Still primarily playing on my small bore piece, large bore piece, and bass piece based on a total of less than an hour working with Doug. Two in person at a show, the bass over the phone.

Cheers,
Andy

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 am OP....a mouthpiece does not DO anything...it allows YOU to do things. Some allow more than others....

Chris

I take the point Chris. I know that the Olds 3 feels harder to do some things and allows me to do other things more readily. I can say the same thing about the Wedge and 3G. I guess I’m trying to get the best features of them all. Hence my wondering if a solution exists in a single mp. The modular suggestions are interesting, particularly as Doug and Harrison independently got to similar conclusions.

You pretty much nailed it in your first post. For you, small mouthpieces have problems with flexibility and low range. The 3G is comfortable and works well but has problems with endurance and high range (because it's big overall). Combining the 3G rim size with a shallower cup will be comfortable, give you good flexibility and accuracy, and work equally well in high and low with good endurance.

Yes I make a shank taper for the Olds. You can return anything or everything if it doesn't work for you - I have a 30 day trial period. But I'm good at guessing the best solution the first time.