TromboneChat

Just did another pod about some aspects of buying a trombone and gave some advice and protips from my own experience. What would be your advice to someone looking for that "unicorn" horn would love to hear everyone's advice and protips. If you get some time check out the pod let me know what you think.
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1169810/4404 ... SWv_z-Uscs

Play test! Sometimes you might have a dream horn in your head- you find it, you buy it "chops unseen," you play it for a while and realize you don't connect with the instrument... or maybe it's just not all it was hyped up to be. Then what? You sell the horn for a loss, and the search continues. If you're lucky, you can trade it for something closer, but that might put you in the same spot. Even if you've played a very similar instrument to the one in your head, it's a good idea to play test because subtle differences in design or material choice can make or break a horn for some people.

This may sound obvious, but make sure you can smell it before you buy it. I bought a trumpet that smelt so bad that my dad banned it from anywhere in the house besides the garage.

I think this story was on Horn Tips with Sarah Willis.

A horn student asked the pro for help choosing the horn that would fit them from the display of many horns.

The pro handed the student a horn and said no, you have to learn to fit it.

Maybe you had to be there!

On the other hand, I don't sound hugely different on my mini pBone than on my Bach 42B. If I play the latter, it's because people hear with their eyes.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:06 pm ... you have to learn to fit it.

I suppose I could "learn to fit" just about any trombone.

But I know that
• the "fit" would be easier on some trombones than others, and
• the results could be drastically (or at least audibly) different from one trombone to another.

I'm not a total gearhead, but ... equipment does matter!

[Of course if you don't believe this, you're probably not reading TromboneChat!]

Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:15 pm [quoBut I know that
• the "fit" would be easier on some trombones than others, and

Probably.

• the results could be drastically (or at least audibly) different from one trombone to another.

I'm skeptical. We probably greatly exaggerate these differences.

If you're buying on the forums buy from Neobri or Greenbean!!! I'd buy blind without pictures from these guys. Can't say enough good things about them.

DakoJack wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:10 am Just did another pod about some aspects of buying a trombone and gave some advice and protips from my own experience. What would be your advice to someone looking for that "unicorn" horn would love to hear everyone's advice and protips. If you get some time check out the pod let me know what you think.
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1169810/4404 ... SWv_z-Uscs

Definitely ask your teacher first.

Step 1: play a lot of trombone
Step 2: play a lot of trombones
Step 3: buy a horn you think is really good
Step 4: get really good at playing that horn
Step 5: keep trying new types of trombones
Step 6: find a trombone that is significantly better than the dream horn you thought was good, because it allows you to do things that were a lot more difficult before
Step 7: go to the shop that makes that horn and buy one for yourself

First thing is to figure out what your current horn is not doing for you.

THEN try a bunch of horns and play them in actual performing situations with friends in the audience that can hear!!


Eric

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:03 pm If you're buying on the forums buy from Neobri or Greenbean!!! I'd buy blind without pictures from these guys. Can't say enough good things about them.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:59 pm Step 1: play a lot of trombone
Step 2: play a lot of trombones
Step 3: buy a horn you think is really good
Step 4: get really good at playing that horn
Step 5: keep trying new types of trombones
Step 6: find a trombone that is significantly better than the dream horn you thought was good, because it allows you to do things that were a lot more difficult before
Step 7: go to the shop that makes that horn and buy one for yourself

I think Step 6 really says it all. A friend and long time pro told me to be sure the horn I was trying made it easier for me to play well (as well as I could). If it did, grab it whether a big name or no name. Though economics sure has to play a practical role). He pointed out that no one in row six is going to go "well he played the wrong note there, but wasn't the tone just beautiful?"

If you can't have an audience, recording yourself playing on your current horn and the intended can help a decision. If your current is as good as the intended, save your money.

doug

Be sure there's a return policy

1. Ergonomics - feel and balance holding it. If you don't like holding it, nothing else really matters.

2. Evenness of response, resistance and resonance. Soft and loud and everything in between. You'll end up hating it if it's uneven. Or you'll have to make odd mouthpiece and playing choices to deal with it.

3. Intonation. Close enough to deal with it. This may seem strange but I check 3rd position high Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F. Some adjustment is always necessary for those notes, but if they all respond well in close to the same position, I know I will like the horn.

4. Sound. I put this last because if it plays well you'll easily sound like yourself anyway.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:18 pm 1. Ergonomics - feel and balance holding it. If you don't like holding it, nothing else really matters.

2. Evenness of response, resistance and resonance. Soft and loud and everything in between. You'll end up hating it if it's uneven. Or you'll have to make odd mouthpiece and playing choices to deal with it.

3. Intonation. Close enough to deal with it. This may seem strange but I check 3rd position high Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F. Some adjustment is always necessary for those notes, but if they all respond well in close to the same position, I know I will like the horn.

4. Sound. I put this last because if it plays well you'll easily sound like yourself anyway.

This is a great list - it's pretty much what i say to students when they ask me how i know if i like a horn or not. Particularly ergonomics - all things being equal, a horn that you can play a lot without fatigue is probably going to be the horn you sound best on. I get a nice rich sound on ultra heavy gear - up until the moment my shoulder cramps up and my back starts slumping.

ihomi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:48 am If you're looking to buy a Trombone, then I'll suggest you, find-out the ultimate collection of the Trombone at iHOMI.

Your “ultimate collection” consists of 8 student horns and one 2B. Not sure if anyone is in the market for a jupiter valve trombone

Lots of good tips here, especially about PLAY TESTING. To that end I personally do my research/reading and pick a horn that I *think* that I'll like and then PATIENTLY shop/search for one (ebay, reverb, forums, et al..) until I find a great deal. Not being impulsive about buying is the key as well as tolerating some cosmetic or other non-functional defects to get the killer deal so I know that I will be able to re-sell it for about what I paid so the 'test drive' doesn't end up costing me much, because I plan on going through several before settling on 'the one.' Then I have basically have unlimited time to play test. Once I find one that I am happy with I spend the money to have any cosmetic issues taken care of or find/buy a cleaner example and hope it plays the same. Sometimes I even make a profit if I find good enough deals and am smart (and patient, did I mention that?) about my buying and selling.

Just my opinion, but I’d spend more time developing sound concepts than trying equipment. If that concept is locked in, you’ll be able to judge pretty quickly whether or not a piece of equipment gets you closer or further from that goal.

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:21 pm First thing is to figure out what your current horn is not doing for you.

I think the difficulty here is identifying what the equipment is doing poorly for your playing vs. elements of playing that are not being approached properly through practice, or perhaps neglected altogether.

Your point still stands, I'm just emphasizing balancing, if not overbalancing the instrument selection with productive and consistent practice.
Of course in comparing two instruments back to back using the same material with the same dynamics, articulation, general technique, etc., you can at least get a general idea for which you like more.

Try out as many as you can in person; then, try even more.

If you're changing horns, ONLY change the horn. Don't try out different mouthpieces at the same time. Minimize the number of variables that you intend to change.

Ironically, If you're changing parts on a modular horn, audition the horn, not the parts. If you want a new slide, try it with your bell, your leadpipe, your valves, etc. There's no sense getting caught in a trap of trying to figure out what each part does to the sound, you need a balanced instrument, not a theory.

Most importantly, bring a digital recorder and/or a musician (trombonist or brass player not necessarily required) friend with you. You cannot accurately hear yourself from behind the mouthpiece, the feedback that you receive through the metal of the horn arrives more quickly and tends to overpower whatever actually makes it to your ears.

What is my experience?

I know what I think is the best horn can change over time. I know all my horns can sound good if I adopt to each of them. I know that what is the best horn depends a lot on the musical context and the other horns around me.

What have I learned?

A horn can play and feel okay in the shop but when you bring it to an ensamble it does not fit that context. Ask to have the horn on loan for a week and test it in those circumstances.

Small intonation issues can be handled and I have learned to adopt fast. If the horn is very strange then I would not buy it.

I avoid very expensive horns. They will be a lot cheaper on the aftermarket.

That's what I think is important.

/Tom

I would concur with what someone said about playing the horn away from an isolated setting like a shop, practice room or your own home studio, with or without someone present to help compare sounds. I think if you can the new horn should be tried out in the ensemble or setting that you intend to use it in. What sounds fine in isolation might not blend well with the other trombones in the section. But all this is pre-Covid. Make sure at least that there is a good return policy if you are able to take the horn out of the store or it was shipped to you.

I just read a humorous but sort of serious piece of advice on choosing a spouse that may apply to choosing a horn.

This is from a book called Barking up the Wrong Tree. He has a blog too but I don't do blogs. It's mostly about successful people but there was a segment on how to find a spouse. I've been married 36 years so it didn't really apply, but.........

Here's his advice. Understand that there is no ultimate perfection and if we had one magic connection out there, mate or trombone, we'd never find it in a world of 8 billion people, but this strategy should work.

Date 10 different people. Don't marry any of them. Continue dating until you find one person better than the best of the original 10. Mathematically that is the best it is possible to do. Marry that person.

Maybe the same thing with trombones. Try a bunch, remember what the best of them felt like. The next time you find one that's better, buy it and quit looking. You're now deep into diminishing returns if you do.

Make sure you have asked the wife before buying

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:25 am Make sure you have asked the wife before buying

Awesome advice!

It’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:19 pm It’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Or hide them, ive had almost half my horns shipped on days where my mom is for sure working and i take that day off and it goes into a secret place. Only problem now is the secret place isn’t big enough

Elow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:44 pm

Bach5G wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:19 pm It’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Or hide them, ive had almost half my horns shipped on days where my mom is for sure working and i take that day off and it goes into a secret place. Only problem now is the secret place isn’t big enough

Let's here your thoughts once your married

Bach5G wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:19 pm It’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

But it can be the most expensive horn you ever buy, if she takes half your house and pension

Bach5G wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:19 pm It’s easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Only the first two times