TromboneChat

Nice review! Thanks Aidan!

Thanks, for the video, Aidan! You speak very highly of the Yeo, and the similarities in size between it and the B11. I thought the Yeo was closer to a Schilke 60 rim size, or at least a variation on it. I'd heard in another review the B11 is a bit smaller than that.

Is the Yeo smaller than I'd been thinking?

pompatus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:19 am Thanks, for the video, Aidan! You speak very highly of the Yeo, and the similarities in size between it and the B11. I thought the Yeo was closer to a Schilke 60 rim size, or at least a variation on it. I'd heard in another review the B11 is a bit smaller than that.

Is the Yeo smaller than I'd been thinking?

Yep. The Yeo is a 1 1/8th size rim. Similar to Doug's 113 rim size. Full size smaller than a Schilke 60.

The Deacon is correct!

Keep in mind that I base most of my comments on how they feel on my face, not the published measurements- rim contours change that feel a lot. The GP6 I talk about several times is only a 29mm piece, but due to the very round rim, feels a full size larger than that on the face. The Laskey 93D is larger, but has a flatter rim and feels about the same size because of it.

The Yeo has a very flat rim as well, and feels even a bit smaller than this B11 despite being probably about the same.

Great review. You covered all the bases (no pun intended).

Is the mouthpiece unlacquered and not plated? Isn’t that dangerous

Elow wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:52 am Is the mouthpiece unlacquered and not plated? Isn’t that dangerous

Never heard of a lacquered mouthpiece. Looks like gold plate to me

Elow wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:52 am Is the mouthpiece unlacquered and not plated? Isn’t that dangerous

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Elow wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:52 am Is the mouthpiece unlacquered and not plated? Isn’t that dangerous

I don't know if this one is not plated (it could be, especially since it's apparently a prototype?). But unplated mouthpieces are not that uncommon. Lots of old mouthpieces out there not plated, and historical brass instruments are generally played with unplated mouthpieces. In fact almost all of the mouthpieces I regularly play are raw brass.

Unplated mouthpieces can cause allergic reaction to some, but so can silver plate. I find raw brass extremely comfortable, especially once it develops a nice patina (of course I'm talking about mouthpieces that were never plated and just came in raw brass originally, and so have a smooth surface. Worn plating is usually not very comfortable).

There is possibly some risk in playing unplated mouthpieces as lots of mouthpieces made of brass contain small amounts of lead, around 2 to 5%, which is included in the alloy of brass billets to facilitate machining. In the US, "lead-free" brass can contain up to 0.25% brass in its surface, that was up to 8% until 2014, so in mouthpieces made before 2014, the 2 to 5% lead is to be expected. It is unclear to what extent the lead leaches out of the alloy and through the skin and how much of it can enter your body and be metabolized and cause significant exposure. "Lead-free" standards for machining brass are devised for its use in plumbing parts, and based on how much lead can leach from the wetted surface to the water. I assume lead leaching from a comparatively dry surface and through your skin is a different process and the amounts are different. Yeah, I should get my lead blood levels checked sometime...

Some people have even claimed that plating doesn't prevent lead exposure from mouthpieces (although that seems like a stretch).

I'm no expert, but I don't think unplated brass is usually "dangerous" per se. But it is prone to tarnishing and can look rather ugly with use, and some people are sensitive to this material, which is an alloy of copper, zinc, and perhaps some other metals such as tin – possibly even lead (added for machinability), which may make it more "dangerous." I'm not aware of "lead poisoning" as a result of playing an unplated brass mouthpiece, but I guess it could theoretically be an issue.

So brass mouthpieces are typically plated with silver or gold. Plated mouthpieces also feel better on the lips. Stainless steel mouthpieces, preferred by some players, contain no lead but stainless does contain nickel, which some people are allergic or otherwise sensitive to. Titanium mouthpieces are lead-free. Lexan (polycarbonate) or Delrin plastics of course have no nickel, so are preferred by players with metal sensitivities. (They also feel pretty good on the lips!)

Sorry for keeping this off topic, but --

I'd be more concerned about the lead in the alloy (342, if memory serves) if you regularly suck on the mouthpiece or play with an extremely wet embouchure. Saliva is normaly alkaline, but can be acidic if you have recently eaten anything acidic (like Coca-Cola). Lead is amphoteric (can react with acids and bases) so can be extracted by saliva. But this is going to be at a VERY low level. You aren't going to play for an hour and keel over from lead poisoning. More likely it will catch up to you as you enter your dotage (as it did to the Romans).

I have a raw brass mouthpiece that I coated with an epoxy solder mask. Maybe I'll try to get a picture to show some time. Was an interesting experiment. The material is a curtain coated liquid (but I dipped the mouthpiece) that is first treated in a warm oven to remove solvents and then baked hard. Might be a consideration for raw brass.

Meanwhile, I wish I didn't have too many bass mouthpieces already or I'd try one of Jeff's.

This prototype is unplated, I'm sure production pieces will be plated.

I found the brass to be very comfy as well!

Hey everyone,

Thanks Aidan for sharing your thoughts on the B11. I posted a video on our YouTube channel just injecting some additional information for anyone who would like to know more, and would be happy to field any questions here as well. To just round up the finish and material questions, the mouthpiece in the video is the first prototype that was cut, in c360 brass.

I will be cutting the majority of these in brass, silver plated. Gold plating will also be available, as well as many different materials, including bronze, delrin tops, carbon fiber shanks, and epoxy stabilized Bubinga wood tops. The Bubinga wood top with a carbon fiber shank is particularly interesting, and has some unique attributes that make it stand out. I plan to make a video with it later today for anyone interested.

Still working out pricing for all the different options, as some of these become considerably difficult to make, with multiple processes needed. This is particularly true for the carbon shanks and wood tops.

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:25 am
I will be cutting the majority of these in brass, silver plated. Gold plating will also be available, as well as many different materials, including bronze, delrin tops, carbon fiber shanks, and epoxy stabilized Bubinga wood tops. The Bubinga wood top with a carbon fiber shank is particularly interesting, and has some unique attributes that make it stand out. I plan to make a video with it later today for anyone interested.

Cool!

If you have a chance of acquiring large enough pieces of ox or cow horn, those are really nice materials for mouthpieces (and unlike wood, should be solid enough not the split/crack at the shank so one-piece mouthpieces are easier to achieve). I haven't tried one but I hear mammoth ivory is a very nice material to machine and has nice sound/playing characteristics.

There is a problem with ivory. Because so much of it is due to illegal activities it is banned in most countries. At one time ivory was popular. My 1925 Olds came with a mouthpiece that took an ivory cup. Unfortunately all that was left of the ivory cup was a few shards (and I've lost the metal underpart in the intervening years).

Wood is a different issue. I have a nice Benterfa mouthpiece that is pretty close in size to the 4G I used to play. It changed the sound of the instrument dramatically. I call it my "chamber mouthpiece" because it refuses to play loud. The sound is more mellow. My guess is the Bubinga mouthpiece will also create a more mellow tone. Definitely not for Bruckner or Wagner (or use marching on a football field).

Here is the Bubinga. It's darker and warmer, no issue with louder dynamics, however it likes to plays ultra legato. That's not to say you can't get a strong accent on a note, but it takes more effort. The comfort and endurance improvement is unbelievable!

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:34 am There is a problem with ivory. Because so much of it is due to illegal activities it is banned in most countries. At one time ivory was popular. My 1925 Olds came with a mouthpiece that took an ivory cup. Unfortunately all that was left of the ivory cup was a few shards (and I've lost the metal underpart in the intervening years).

In principle mammoth ivory isn't banned or illegal in most jurisdictions (I think a few US states have banned its sale). It can create problems if it's mistaken by customs officers for elephant ivory, so it's better to have a paper trail for it. It's one of the consequences of global warming. Thousands and thousands of mammoth carcasses are thawing in the Russian tundra and their tusks (or usable fragments thereof) are suddenly available in unprecedented numbers.

What do you think the Bubinga might sell for?

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:42 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:34 am There is a problem with ivory. Because so much of it is due to illegal activities it is banned in most countries. At one time ivory was popular. My 1925 Olds came with a mouthpiece that took an ivory cup. Unfortunately all that was left of the ivory cup was a few shards (and I've lost the metal underpart in the intervening years).

In principle mammoth ivory isn't banned or illegal in most jurisdictions (I think a few US states have banned its sale). It can create problems if it's mistaken by customs officers for elephant ivory, so it's better to have a paper trail for it. It's one of the consequences of global warming. Thousands and thousands of mammoth carcasses are thawing in the Russian tundra and their tusks (or usable fragments thereof) are suddenly available in unprecedented numbers.

I wish there were a better way to control ivory. There is plenty of ivory from elephants that met natural deaths. There is the mammoth ivory you mention. And poached ivory is still ivory -- wish there was a way to allow its sale bypassing the poachers.