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Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:45 pm
by Crazy4Tbone86
In the late 1990s and early 2000s, the Miller Valve was offered for .547 tenors and .562 bass trombones. It was an after-market product made by Robert M. Miller in St. Louis, MO. The patent was # 5798471. The patent was filed in 1997 and accepted a year later. The valve looked very similar to the Bach K-valve, but had a different port arrangement. Here is a link to one currently selling on Reverb....
https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-s ... ller-valve
I am intrigued by these valves, but there seems to be very few out there. If you have seen one (inside and out), owned one, played on one, known somebody who played on one, etc...., please offer information. Thanks!
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:14 pm
by Elow
I saw someone posting their new trombone with these types of valves in a facebook group. I don’t remember the brand but it was something i never heard of before.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:17 pm
by BGuttman
I tried the K valve when it first came out. My big problem with it (and the Miller Valve) was that the thing dug into my neck. Very uncomfortable.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:24 pm
by tombone21
Interesting design for sure, especially in a time when people were beginning to look for alternatives to traditional rotary valves. Here's a link to view the now-defunct millervalve.com, I'm bringing this over from my comment on a K valve thread earlier today.
https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075 ... /tech.html
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:00 pm
by Crazy4Tbone86
BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:17 pm
I tried the K valve when it first came out. My big problem with it (and the Miller Valve) was that the thing dug into my neck. Very uncomfortable.
Yes Bruce, the Miller valve in particular does look like it had some ergonomics problems. With the use of some S-bend tubings, it certainly looks like the wrap could have been constructed in a much better way.
Did you actually try a Miller valve horn? If yes, do you remember anything about how it played (acoustically, not ergonomically)?
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:14 pm
by Posaunus
What was the date that document was published?
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:53 pm
by BGuttman
Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:00 pm
BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:17 pm
I tried the K valve when it first came out. My big problem with it (and the Miller Valve) was that the thing dug into my neck. Very uncomfortable.
Yes Bruce, the Miller valve in particular does look like it had some ergonomics problems. With the use of some S-bend tubings, it certainly looks like the wrap could have been constructed in a much better way.
Did you actually try a Miller valve horn? If yes, do you remember anything about how it played (acoustically, not ergonomically)?
At the time Osmun only had the K valve 42. Never got a chance to try a Miller. The K was pretty open. Those were the days we were all going from the awful 42B valve (undersize rotor) to the Thayer and Bach was trying to get back in the game with the K.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:55 pm
by Doug Elliott
If you want an interesting piece of trombone history that's not a bad price at all.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:09 pm
by Posaunus
Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:55 pm
If you want an interesting piece of trombone history that's not a bad price at all.
If I had $1,200 to spare, and needed a 0.547" bore trombone, I might be interested.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:17 am
by DougHulme
I remember having a good look at them and playing on a trombone fitted with them at ITF New Orleans. Later I found a Besson Sovereign Bass Trombone fitted with them over here in the UK. I think the local Brass Band still has it. I did play on that for an hour. Nothing remarkable about the valves (or maybe it was the trombone?). I thought they were kind of cool to look at but found them not as good to play on as the Geo Gravis I compared them to. Not very helpful information I know! I thought the valve that Bach was fitting was the Millar valve - shows what I know!... Chris Stearn might have a better idea as his stand at New Orleans was very close to theirs I cant imagine with his inquiring mind he didnt give them a run out?!... Doug
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:26 am
by Crazy4Tbone86
Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:55 pm
If you want an interesting piece of trombone history that's not a bad price at all.
The question is......do you want to own a good piece of history or a bad piece of history? I guess I'm still looking for more answers.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:53 am
by Basbasun
Wow If I was younger I might buy it But not now, it coud be stuck in Chicago for twa and a half month. I think it is a good buy! The Besson trombones I meet did not make me happy. No matter the valve-
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:42 pm
by HawaiiTromboneGuy
The same horn is now being sold by Dillon’s on Reverb.
https://reverb.com/item/35627149-used-b ... -sn-102306
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:13 pm
by FOSSIL
DougHulme wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:17 am
I remember having a good look at them and playing on a trombone fitted with them at ITF New Orleans. Later I found a Besson Sovereign Bass Trombone fitted with them over here in the UK. I think the local Brass Band still has it. I did play on that for an hour. Nothing remarkable about the valves (or maybe it was the trombone?). I thought they were kind of cool to look at but found them not as good to play on as the Geo Gravis I compared them to. Not very helpful information I know! I thought the valve that Bach was fitting was the Millar valve - shows what I know!... Chris Stearn might have a better idea as his stand at New Orleans was very close to theirs I cant imagine with his inquiring mind he didnt give them a run out?!... Doug
Ha ha !! You know me too well Doug. I have to say that I was pretty underwhelmed at the time. Not particularly free blowing and pretty heavy. They seemed to be very well made but there were better designs out there.
Chris
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:28 pm
by Millerman
I thought I'd post this for the record. I play on a Miller double valve bass trombone. One of only three or four (or so I've been told). The valves have the horizontal orientation not vertical as I've seen. It has a Bach 10.5 inch gold Brass bell and an Edwards Dual bore slide. I never played it before I bought it, but once I saw it I knew I had to have it. The valve set is heavy and a pain to repair, but It seems to work for me. Please feel free to ask any questions you have and I am happy to include pictures.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:42 am
by Jesperiank
Millerman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:28 pm
I thought I'd post this for the record. I play on a Miller double valve bass trombone. One of only three or four (or so I've been told). The valves have the horizontal orientation not vertical as I've seen. It has a Bach 10.5 inch gold Brass bell and an Edwards Dual bore slide. I never played it before I bought it, but once I saw it I knew I had to have it. The valve set is heavy and a pain to repair, but It seems to work for me. Please feel free to ask any questions you have and I am happy to include pictures.
Sorry to dig up the topic, but out of curiosity I would be really interested in seeing photos of your trombone! Many thanks =)
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:40 pm
by Jbeckett
I’d be curious as well, in seeing pics of that double valve bass.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:44 am
by elmsandr
I'm curious as well, the only Miller double I've seen was the version in their literature:
bach50v2_assembled.jpg
Cheers,
Andy
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:32 am
by Burgerbob
elmsandr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:44 am
I'm curious as well, the only Miller double I've seen was the version in their literature:
bach50v2_assembled.jpg
Cheers,
Andy
Oh man. I have a feeling this bell section wouldn't fit in any case, ever.
Re: Miller Valves
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:10 pm
by whitbey
At some point not only does the valve cut into your neck, but you have extra weight to hold and carry.