TromboneChat

Let's talk about ear training.

I have become pretty good at hearing harmonic intervals (min3, Maj3, 4th, 5th, 8va) played at the same time.

But I always have to "deconstruct" the interval. I easily hear the higher note and then have to fish a little for the root. Then singing the interval gives me the result...

How do you go about ear training? Do also have to deconstruct what you are hearing or are you able to "feel" what interval it is by listening one time?

If you easily feel what interval it is, how did you learn that?

Quote from: cozzagiorgi on Aug 30, 2017, 12:33AM
How do you go about ear training? Do also have to deconstruct what you are hearing or are you able to "feel" what interval it is by listening one time?


There's plenty of info about this on YouTube, you could start here. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rick+beato+perfect+pitch     Check out Dylan..

If you can, enlist the help of a friend or colleague to test you regularly and build up your speed.

There are also apps you can use for training, for instance Ear Trainer or Tenuto.

Can also say that I have the same "problem" - when I hear two tones simultaneously I have to deconstruct it to be able to hear what interval it is. Some intervals I can recognize immediately, for instance Perfect 5ths but most of them I have to split to be able to hear what it is. And sometimes I hear tones that is not there, for instance it sounds like a Major 3rd but it is really a Minor 6th.

I hope that with enough practice I will be able to recognize the interval directly, without splitting. It would be interesting to know others experience here...

Can anyone recommend an IPhone ear training app that takes you through intervals to chords to chord progressions in a structured way?

Might be a useful way to spend my time on the bus.

I use an app called complete ear trainer on android. So far it is great

I suggest you look at Ear Trainer, it is available for iPhone. It has exercises for intervals, chord identification and chord progressions. It also has different types of scales. I don't have enough experience with it to recommend it but I suggest you take a look at it, I think it is one of the major apps for Ear Training...

Solfeggio...

I have an old 40+ cassette tape set of David Burge's relative pitch training course that I bought in the 90s. Each tape is about 5 minutes of lecture/demonstration and then 30 minutes of drills.

I got better using it but I found that if I wasn't practicing and drilling on it every day, my ability to identify intervals and inversions and chords quickly would recede and I'd be back to humming through things to pick them apart.

I've never stuck with the program long enough to get past the first 15 or so tapes.   If I had a long train ride every day with nothing to do but listen i  might be farther along.

The tradtional practice of transcribing (from ear to paper) and then playing the transcription back via whatever means you have is great ear training.

Also, drone practice is great ear training. For the simultaneous interval thing, drone practicing lets you zero in on an actual in-tune interval and how the color of that in-tune-ness changes as you deviate sharp or flat from those intervals. But, each unique interval has it's own "color" that the ear interprets - learn those colors in perfect intonation and it becomes a lot easier to translate tempered intervals, like most apps and pianos where the intervals aren't quite pure. That color comes from the waveforms interfering in specific patterns based on the frequency deviation, just like two played rhythms played against each other produce a new rhythmic pattern. Our brains just interpret it as harmonic colors. If the intervals are at exact ratios to each other, the patterns produced are super-repeatable and clear and easy to identify. I think that some people have trouble with ear training because they depend on practicing with the piano which has a lot of inharmonicity in the tone, plus it's tempered - so a lot of that color that can be really useful for learning intervals gets lost in some contexts like pianos. Especially pianos that haven't been tuned in a couple of years.

I always listen for the bass note. It's not always the root, but a good portion of the time it is, and it's usually pretty obvious when it's not.

For one that is new to ear training I would start sorting out the different categories in interval. Dont know the English names for it, but you have pure intervals like octave, fourth and fifth. Then you have dissonance like small and big septim and seconds. Also dimished fifth. Then you have all the thirds and sixths. Minor and major.

In the beginning its wise to listen them in a melodic way. Or as  burgerbob try to find the low note.

Then its to find out the function of intervals. That's easier when listening chords. Like small septim leads down and major thirds leads down. Minor third leads down. All chords, intervals have a kind of function. Its easier to listen when we have read and understood all this functions.

Well I'm not expert on all this, but feel the functionality of intervals and chords make it easier to recognize and listen.

Leif

Not fully in line with the OP's topic, but learning to play by ear in it's entirety is a valuable skill and not just for improvisation but for interpretation as well.
I'm baffled by how many good jazz players that I work with can play solos without end, but struggle to play simple melodies that they surely must be aware of, without a lead sheet.

Being able to play by ear make the player more useful, resourceful and employable.

A good way to learn and remember intervals is to think of a song you like that begins with that interval.

For example from West Side Story, the song "Somewhere" begins with an acsending minor 7th interval. "There's a place for us ..."

Here's a website that discusses the idea and lists songs for each interval.
https://www.scales-chords.com/articles/Use-Songs-You-Know-to-Learn-Your-Musical-Intervals.html

Most of these songs are good fodder for playing in any key. It will help develop your sound and range as well as your recognition of intervals.

I have MaGamut. It is a ear training program. I have done harmonic intervals for so long that I just hear them. I am also very good with root chords the inversion chords, less so. Practice improves everything.

I play trombone for 7 months. I always have to think about the note I have to play before I start to get the correct note out. Otherwise it will sound false, stuffed, etc. For example i must hum low bflat at position 1 followed by f on staff, which in turn is followed by bflat above staff. If I do that I can simply grab the bone and just start playing. However if I have been playing a couple of songs for the day, I don’t need to do that or think about the pitch, it’s just there until next time. Does everyone have to think about the note before they make a sound?

It definitely helps a lot.  Get in the habit of always thinking the pitch before you play.

Quote from: MichaelWindhoek on Oct 12, 2017, 11:53PMI play trombone for 7 months. --snip-- Does everyone have to think about the note before they make a sound?

The best players are always thinking of the pitch they play (before the note, while sustaining the note, and as the note tapers at the end). As one plays more and more, it moves from the cognizant area of the brain (where one consciously focuses on a task) to the habitual area of the brain (where for example, one doesn't even recall driving to work ... they just got there).

In teaching music theory along with aural skills over the years one thing I noticed that wind instrument players either don't know how to sing, never sing,and/or can't match pitch. I'm not just talking about sight-singing. Since working as an administrator I don't teach that much anymore but the trombone students I do get, whether high school or college learn to sing. Its kind of like learning to read.......read out loud first then learn to read silently.

The ability to buzz pitch accurately on the mouthpiece I believe is important.  Learn to buzz tunes in different keys. Play tunes on the trombone and play them in different keys. Someone has said use the seeing ear and the hearing eye.

A word about rhythm: I have found that those who have trouble with with rhythm do so because they fail to divide the pulse. They think 1-2-3-4 instead of 1a2a3a4a in their mind. Again have them count out loud then silently. Finally think musical phrases with rhythm being the accelerator of the phrases.rhythm is the fuel of music.

   

 

In teaching music theory along with aural skills over the years one thing I noticed that wind instrument players either don't know how to sing, never sing,and/or can't match pitch. I'm not just talking about sight-singing. Since working as an administrator I don't teach that much anymore but the trombone students I do get, whether high school or college learn to sing. Its kind of like learning to read.......read out loud first then learn to read silently.

The ability to buzz pitch accurately on the mouthpiece I believe is important.  Learn to buzz tunes in different keys. Play tunes on the trombone and play them in different keys. Someone has said use the seeing ear and the hearing eye.

A word about rhythm: I have found that those who have trouble with with rhythm do so because they fail to divide the pulse. They think 1-2-3-4 instead of 1a2a3a4a in their mind. Again have them count out loud then silently. Finally think musical phrases with rhythm being the accelerator of the phrases.rhythm is the fuel of music.