TromboneChat

In your experience, which trombone brand/model allows for the loudest playing?

Not sure it's specific to brand/model but build quality and the player. I've heard great loud sounds on Yamaha, Edwards, Shires & Bach, but I typically find it's because of the player. With that being said, if and big time player switches to whatever other high quality brand/model, they surely can play just as loud/pro as any other quality model.

I've played an old Selmer/Williams that made the most decibels per user input that I've ever seen. Mindblowing how loud it was with no effort at all. I wouldn't be surprised if that model were named in some arms treaties.

If you can't play loud, no trombone model will fix that. If you can play loud, a large bore with just the right resistance (for you) will be the loudest.

I've noticed two horns that I thought for me played louder than other horns. First was a Bach 42b I played in the Navy. I was used to playing an 88h, but the 42b was just constructed a little heavier, which I think lends it to louder playing. It wasn't as fun to play, and certainly didn't have as much nuanced feeling, but damn, it played loud.

Second is a Conn 48h. On that I think it was the bell construction.

Some horns due to materials, design or construction, just don't seem to play loud. Like a 32h. I think a yellow brass horn will play louder, and heavier horns will play louder. This may or may not be really true, it's just my impressions.

I think there are so many definitions of "loud." I'm sure I could find mouthpiece/leadpipe/slide/bell combinations that would give me an assortment of "louds"......

*Bright Loud
*Edgy Loud
*Dark Loud
*Narrow Loud
*Wide Loud etc....

I played an equipment combination that I should call my "narrow loud" a few years ago in a concert band. The combo is a heavy-weight brass Courtois slide and my Bach 42G straight horn with a Benge 190 tuning slide and a Brad Close drawn copper gooseneck. I believe my leadpipe at that time was a Shires 2.5 in yellow brass. The conductor kept asking me to play louder in the rehearsal, so I gave it to him. Lucky for me, I had the equipment that evening that could permit me to play extremely loud with no distortion or excess edginess.

The woodwinds showed up to the second rehearsal with ear plugs and plexi-glass shields because they were very concerned about hearing loss. Fortunately, they felt no ill-will towards me because they realized that I was just producing what the conductor was asking for. The strange thing was that audience members did not hear it as outrageously loud. Apparently, that combination produces a massive amount of volume, but the path of destruction is rather narrow (my seat was far stage left and my horn was aimed across the group and not directly at the audience).

One of Conn's advertising schemes was "you can never crack a note", which probably isn't true, but I do have to say the 18H Coprion is rather good with a Conn 3 if you need a decent tone at high volume for $200 or less. All tenors will do the job, but the small horn cuts more if you need it to cut through a bunch of stuff, rather than just being loud and "there".

If a 42 is a hammer, the 18H is a very good dagger if pushed.

The loudest stuff I've ever heard was on some small bore trombone, like a King 2B or something. Vastly louder than any large bore I've ever heard. The guy was in a large N.O. brass band, unmiked, outdoors. Everyone uses mics for their solos, but this guy moved away from the mics for his. He was louder than the entire amplified band.

Great solo ideas, but my ears actually hurt.

In my experience - vintage Conn.

Gary Valente plays a 30s King Silvertone loudly.

Ron Barron playing high Eb on alto in Symphonie Fantastique. Complete and utter destruction.

Never heard that Barron recording, I will listen! Thanks for the tip!
I feel we need some hard evidence based truths in discussions such as this.
My Apple Watch keeps telling me that it’s to loud when I practice. And all of the time in orchestra of course, pre corona. It measures decibel. Maybe I’ll set up a competition next time my family is out of the house: play as loud as I can on all of my trombones and get an exact measurement which one is the loudest.

Chatname wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:48 pm Never heard that Barron recording, I will listen! Thanks for the tip!
I feel we need some hard evidence based truths in discussions such as this.
My Apple Watch keeps telling me that it’s to loud when I practice. And all of the time in orchestra of course, pre corona. It measures decibel. Maybe I’ll set up a competition next time my family is out of the house: play as loud as I can on all of my trombones and get an exact measurement which one is the loudest.

It was at a masterclass. No recording sorry!

Gary Valente on a 2B Silver sonic - Definitely pushing it to the limit
Wes Hanson on a Holton 150

One of my favorite stories. The American high school in Germany was shrinking as the Army downsized, and the band had graduating seniors, so the director asked me and a local trumpet teacher to sit in. I'd played some of the football games and musicals and my daughters were in the school so the kids knew me.

As we sat down, one of the high school kids looked over and said, OMG. It's the two loudest brass players in the entire world. I might as well not be here.

We did our best.

Nickel bell King Tempos are up there.

Roland Barber had a fantastic post on this in the old forum - if anyone can find a copy.

There are very different kinds of loud:
"*Bright Loud
*Edgy Loud
*Dark Loud
*Narrow Loud
*Wide Loud etc....?

Every manufacturer can do some different things, and they tend to do them in different ways.

My vote is a Bach Mt. Vernon 1½G with a King 1490S Silver Sonic Duo Gravis...it will peel paint at 50 paces, and a little to the right!

Alistair White can blow 10 bells out of his Silver-plated King 3B AND still be musical!!!!
There is some recent evidence on this recording.......

Also, a good friend of mine had a lesson with Elliot Mason and tried his Custom BAC trombone. He said the notes just flew out of it and it was soooo easy to step on the gas.

However Wycliffe Gordon on his Yamaha 891Z takes some beating "Musically speaking".

Bach42 123XXX

Jimkinkella wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:37 pm --- snippet ---
Roland Barber had a fantastic post on this in the old forum - if anyone can find a copy.

Yes, I remember that one too. His favorite was an Olds Recording IIRC.

Fidbone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:33 am

However Wycliffe Gordon on his Yamaha 891Z takes some beating "Musically speaking".

Yeah. I heard him live at ETW/ATW some years back and if there'd been windows in there they would have cracked.

I think shower tile would be at risk.

2B silver sonic...Gary Valente style. Wow! Played a few of these in a practice room, after playing some loud solos to hear how they held up my ears were ringing. Special horns.

Selmer Bolero...can thin out in high register but those older selmer Paris brass horns have a unique tone. When you play really loud, especially in the middle register, it’s crazy. I have been asked to play softer on this horn. On a Balkan brass band gig...for those who don’t know, those gigs are always cranking. The trumpets hurt my ears when played loud. Would’ve gone deaf playing in front of Louis Armstrong...worth it though lol

Owned an acme trombones Silver Sonic 3B/Yamaha 891Z custom hybrid experiment. That was the loudest trombone I ever owned. So so good. Unfortunately I already play aggressively with an edgy tone, so this setup was too overwhelming, felt like I was loud but hard to hear a clear tone and pitch. This would be a dream combo for a usually soft mellow player looking for something with bite for a horn section/brass band.

Honorable mentions: Conn 12H/10H. Copper bell 4H/6H. When you play loud, wow! I had trouble getting a clear sound at low volumes though so sold them.

Olds Recording. One of my favorite instruments ever designed. So good, can get so loud. Kind of exhausting to play on Long sets at a high volume though.

4B silver Sonic. UHOP...an incredible sound, but stays round.

In my experience, a silver plated King 1306 Super Tempo. I have never played another trombone which comes close in terms of raw projecting volume. Played it for a few years straight during my ska band days in the late 1990's. I picked it up to use instead of the '61 3B I had at the time in the high-risk situations I was found in while touring in a van and playing all sorts of "venues". The volume capacity turned out to be a huge asset because I was often working without a mic against mic'd drums and guitar amps. This isn't to say that it didn't require a lot of effort, but I never had trouble cutting through. Other horns would back up and kind of fold before the point to where I was trying to push them. The 1306 took all I could give and turned it into sound. I don't know why or how, but that's the only horn I could do that with.

This is all very interesting! Silver is mentioned a lot in the thread, seems to be the number one alloy for real over the top loud playing?!
I use some silver leadpipes myself and used to play a Glassl silver bell tenor. However I felt that trombone was beautiful in soft playing but difficult in loud playing. Could very well have been only my own shortcomings, obviously.
Anyway, silver, nickel or yellow brass or combinations there of, which are best for loud playing; any ideas?
I know that in the end we want balance. I’m just childish and love this topic...

Chatname wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:05 pm This is all very interesting! Silver is mentioned a lot in the thread, seems to be the number one alloy for real over the top loud playing?!
I use some silver leadpipes myself and used to play a Glassl silver bell tenor. However I felt that trombone was beautiful in soft playing but difficult in loud playing. Could very well have been only my own shortcomings, obviously.
Anyway, silver, nickel or yellow brass or combinations there of, which are best for loud playing; any ideas?
I know that in the end we want balance. I’m just childish and love this topic...

You just have to find the right combo for you!

Chatname wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:05 pm This is all very interesting! Silver is mentioned a lot in the thread, seems to be the number one alloy for real over the top loud playing?!

Not always...when I picked out my 3B from DJ's, the yellow brass 3B I ended up going with out-decibeled the handful of 3BSS that were there. It was by far the loudest and punchiest, both to me and to the group of trombonists that were there with me. It wasn't the only reason I picked that one, but with the salsa playing I do in mind it was definitely one of them. But I've played with salsa guys who can knock down walls with their Silver Sonics...every horn (and player) is different!

Holton Galaxy

From a physics standpoint I would think the size of the equipment would be a primary factor for raw sound-pressure generation.

Anecdotally, when I played with The Extra Action Marching Band (crazy-fun experience) volume was the name of the game much of the time. With the ears of my fellow band mates I played through my equipment at the time: (all Yammies) YSL-697z (.484/.490), YSL-691 (.508), YSL-648 (.547) and YBL-612IIR (.563) and the consensus was that raw volume was more the bigger I went. Ended up stuffing a large shank Marcinkiewicz 8 BS/6 1/2AL mouthpiece in the bass and played it like a tenor to good effect. YRMV, naturally. -Joe

The loudest sound a trombone player can make is a subtle drop of the mute out off the bell during a oboe solo.

I don't like loud. I like beautiful.

/Tom

imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:11 am I don't like loud. I like beautiful.

/Tom

Por que no los dos?

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:14 am

imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:11 am I don't like loud. I like beautiful.

/Tom

Por que no los dos?

Beautiful is beautiful.
Loud is loud.
Loud can be beautiful but loud is not beautiful.

/Tom - the poet

imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:53 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:14 am

Por que no los dos?

Beautiful is beautiful.
Loud is loud.
Loud can be beautiful but loud is not beautiful.

/Tom - the poet

The topic mentioned "loudest", "beauty" is a different matter than this thread. Both may apply but only one need apply here.
/Hobart - the village idiot

imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:53 pm
Beautiful is beautiful.
Loud is loud.
Loud can be beautiful but loud is not beautiful.

/Tom - the poet

well, I don't want to say you're wrong, but...

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pm

imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:53 pm
Beautiful is beautiful.
Loud is loud.
Loud can be beautiful but loud is not beautiful.

/Tom - the poet

well, I don't want to say you're wrong, but...

Says the bass trombone player

Both can be true and have value!
The beauty in clean tone and balance and perfection, and the expression of desperation and chaos and brutality.
We need both. In this thread I was asking for experiences regarding the latter part of trombone playing (which often make us a bit unpopular): expressing raw emotion in the loud parts of the masterworks. There can be beauty in disregarding balance and good taste and perfect tone quality.
I wanted to discuss which instruments are best at helping us achieve this. The unbalanced, crazy trombones.

The newest yellow 3BFs are loud as hell. I was blasting the crap out of my silversonic in the big band, and the guy next to me, same instrument, just newer and yellow brass, was blowing me out of the water with seemingly no effort. The director was like, "Reed, could you please bring the volume up on lead and match second bone?" I was embarrassed. It's like FF isn't FF anymore. I'm not playing any softer, but the requests in big band over the years to play louder are increasing.

And yup, I playtested the two brand new 3BFs. They sound great and are INSANELY loud.

I've never achieved a big sound out of a Bach 42 or a small bore Conn. Any small bore Holton will peel paint. My Olds Opera was purchased mainly for its ability to play loud and it does. The only brand I have experienced where every model plays huge with small effort is Besson, especially the small bores. They are heavy instruments so that may have something to do with it.

Loudest trombone? Whatever I was playing during an outdoor concert when a bee stung me!

Kingfan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:50 pm Loudest trombone? Whatever I was playing during an outdoor concert when a bee stung me!

Lol
/Tom

On the old forum there was such a topic. Roland Barber said that the loudest trombone is the Yamaha 354 without varnish and with Bach 6 3 / 4C or Wick 7CS or DE MT99 (100) C + mouthpieces.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:59 pm Gary Valente plays a 30s King Silvertone loudly.

Agree.... None Above...