Page 1 of 1
Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:11 am
by Beanboy128
What is up trombone people. I'm doubling from trumpet and accidentally bought a new holton bass bone. Are the newer ones make in elkhart anything to write home about? I know some people really like the old ones but my director (a trumpet player) is convinced the one I got sucks. What do y'all think.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:18 am
by Elow
I think the general consensus is that theyre nothing compared to the older models.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:18 am
by BGuttman
Do you know which model it is?
169, 183, and 185 are single trigger basses. The 169 is highly prized (and rare).
180 is a dual dependent workhorse and there are some players here. Older ones have the Glantz Bar to activate the valves which takes a lot of getting used to.
181 is a dual independent and some have said it is not as good as the 180. Still, it's better than many of the cheap Chinese horns out there.
680 is large tenor size and is considered a "training bass".
Of course any of these in lousy condition can be dogs. Also, there are no new Holtons being made.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:23 am
by Beanboy128
BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:18 am
Do you know which model it is?
It's a TR 183 in pretty good condition. It's a wee bit stuffy in the lower registers but for light doubling I figured it would work.
Also by new I just meant after conn bought them. I got it used.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:42 am
by BGuttman
Stuffiness in the lower register could be due to a misaligned rotor. Easy fix for a good tech; easy to ruin by the Gee-Tar Doctor.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:44 am
by Beanboy128
BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:42 am
Stuffiness in the lower register could be due to a misaligned rotor. Easy fix for a good tech; easy to ruin by the Gee-Tar Doctor.
I checked the witness marks and the rotor mark when I got it. It looked fine to me. I think it just is like that. It isn't stuffy enough to hinder playing in low register though.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:24 pm
by elmsandr
BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:18 am
... Also, there are no new Holtons being made.
I am not sure that is true. It was a little while ago, but I saw some in the Elkhart Bach plant a couple of years ago. Did they drop them over the last year or two?
Cheers,
Andy
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:33 pm
by WGWTR180
Holton 183 bass bones are not that good. The older good Holtons are good-but some are not. Try before you buy. ALSO Not all 185 and 169 basses are single valve instruments-I wish people would quit saying this. Many people who play them have the additional plug-in valve making it a double/dependent instrument. TR 181's can be okay but they're terribly over braced. Also older Holton bass lead pipes are consistently bad.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:16 am
by Basbasun
I had several Holtons over the years. Some are good, some are not so good. Like Bach. I have a very good 183, a friend of mine also have a good one. Actually I have seen some pretty bad Holtons, but never a bad 183. How come?
Just have a decent trombone (bass) player test the horn.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
by Mikebmiller
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:41 am
by Elow
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
It happens
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am
by WGWTR180
Basbasun wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:16 am
I had several Holtons over the years. Some are good, some are not so good. Like Bach. I have a very good 183, a friend of mine also have a good one. Actually I have seen some pretty bad Holtons, but never a bad 183. How come?
Just have a decent trombone (bass) player test the horn.
Interesting. All 183s I've played have been horrid.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:42 am
by mrdeacon
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am
Basbasun wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:16 am
I had several Holtons over the years. Some are good, some are not so good. Like Bach. I have a very good 183, a friend of mine also have a good one. Actually I have seen some pretty bad Holtons, but never a bad 183. How come?
Just have a decent trombone (bass) player test the horn.
Interesting. All 183s I've played have been horrid.
Same. At least in comparison to a half-decent Bach 50B or Holton TR185.
I have yet to try an actual early one with the GR pipe, different tuning slide, and long handslide. I've just tried medallion and later models that are basically just chopped up TR181's.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:16 pm
by WGWTR180
mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:42 am
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am
Interesting. All 183s I've played have been horrid.
Same. At least in comparison to a half-decent Bach 50B or Holton TR185.
I have yet to try an actual early one with the GR pipe, different tuning slide, and long handslide. I've just tried medallion and later models that are basically just chopped up TR181's.
Do you like the GR pipes with the Holtons? Do you mean the M&K one?
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:30 pm
by mrdeacon
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:16 pm
mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:42 am
Same. At least in comparison to a half-decent Bach 50B or Holton TR185.
I have yet to try an actual early one with the GR pipe, different tuning slide, and long handslide. I've just tried medallion and later models that are basically just chopped up TR181's.
Do you like the GR pipes with the Holtons? Do you mean the M&K one?
You know I haven't been the biggest fan of the GR pipes in Holtons now that I think of it... I seem to really prefer either a 169 pipe (Kanstul or original) or the BrassArk's or Chuck's version of the Minick/Schatz TR185 pipe.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:37 pm
by JoeStanko
I have a Kanstul 169 pipe in one of my 169 slides - good choice.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:26 pm
by Mikebmiller
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
I pocket dial people all the time. I guess I could pocket buy a horn.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:02 pm
by JohnL
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
An intent to buy a symphonic tenor with an f-attachment, a vague description with blurry pictures, and a price that's too good to pass up.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:26 am
by whitbey
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
They hit bottom.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:32 am
by Vegastokc
whitbey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:26 am
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
They hit bottom.
*rimshot*
#dadmusicjoke
Well played.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:04 am
by WGWTR180
JoeStanko wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:37 pm
I have a Kanstul 169 pipe in one of my 169 slides - good choice.
Joe I have one of those pipes as well. It's pretty darn good! Does your mouthpiece fit in far enough? I had to do some work on mine.
Mr. deacon I have several of those Schatz pipes as well. One very good-one so so.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:30 am
by JoeStanko
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:04 am
JoeStanko wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:37 pm
I have a Kanstul 169 pipe in one of my 169 slides - good choice.
Joe I have one of those pipes as well. It's pretty darn good! Does your mouthpiece fit in far enough? I had to do some work on mine.
Mr. deacon I have several of those Schatz pipes as well. One very good-one so so.
Hi Bill, yes, the mouthpiece sits further out of the Kanstul 169 pipe then some other pipes - quire a difference with the Yamaha 613H pipe I have in my Bach slide. I did have a Brasslab Schatz leadpipe in this slide previously - Chris now has this pipe. The Brasslab was more open and the mouthpiece did sit further in.
I think the Kanstul pipe better fits the character of the 169 than the Brasslab - more resistance and it has more clarity. The Brasslab pipe is excellent but this one would probably be a better match in a Bach slide - it had more of an orchestral sound. Let's see if Chris offers his opinion as he's tried it with different instruments.
My other 169 is stock - I think I'll try that slide on my preferred bell section to compare the leadpipes. Any other suggestions for pipes that you found to work well in a Holton?
Joe
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:11 am
by MBeal
Elow wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:41 am
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:39 am
How does one accidentally buy a bass trombone?
It happens
Wine + iPhone = how I ended up with my alto trombone
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:35 am
by WGWTR180
JoeStanko wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:30 am
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:04 am
Joe I have one of those pipes as well. It's pretty darn good! Does your mouthpiece fit in far enough? I had to do some work on mine.
Mr. deacon I have several of those Schatz pipes as well. One very good-one so so.
Hi Bill, yes, the mouthpiece sits further out of the Kanstul 169 pipe then some other pipes - quire a difference with the Yamaha 613H pipe I have in my Bach slide. I did have a Brasslab Schatz leadpipe in this slide previously - Chris now has this pipe. The Brasslab was more open and the mouthpiece did sit further in.
I think the Kanstul pipe better fits the character of the 169 than the Brasslab - more resistance and it has more clarity. The Brasslab pipe is excellent but this one would probably be a better match in a Bach slide - it had more of an orchestral sound. Let's see if Chris offers his opinion as he's tried it with different instruments.
My other 169 is stock - I think I'll try that slide on my preferred bell section to compare the leadpipes. Any other suggestions for pipes that you found to work well in a Holton?
Joe
Joe in one of my 180's the Brasslab pipe works the best. In another one a Bach 50 pipe works well-actually able to use the horn in certain orchestral situations. As you know the way Chuck made his pipes led to many inconsistencies. But then again some of the new pipes offered today are also inconsistent. I have a Schatz #3 pipe sitting here where the mouthpiece sits way too deep-horn sounds spread with matched with one of my trusty 1 and 1/2 pieces. With a bigger piece maybe it would work.
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:28 pm
by FOSSIL
Hi Bill and Joe, It happens that I have been checking through my pipes after a mouthpiece change, I am talking about this in relation to a 60H Conn which will, of course change how the pipes work. The Brasslab pipe I got from Joe is nice, but not as good as my old 70H pipe, as is the Minick L I got from Bill. The Herrick pipe I got from Jack is also nice, but the 70H pipe still out performs them. After reading this I dug out my Kanstul 169 and it was way better than I remembered... in fact I'd put it second to the 70H pipe and I suspect that fitted in a Holton it would be the winner.
Chris
Re: Holton bass trombone
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:45 pm
by spencercarran
Now you all have got me wondering if I should tinker with leadpipe options in my 180. I'm fairly sure Gary Dafler pulled the original (it was probably trashed) but no clue what he might have replaced it with. Where are good places to source some from, especially with Kanstul closed down now?