TromboneChat

So I have found that I hardly have touched my tenor since I started primary-ing on bass so I was thinking of just selling it all together. I do want to concentrate on bass but I'm scared that I might be stuck in a situation where I need a tenor but I don't have one. The main upside I see is that I could make some money from selling it which I could use to purchase a new bass which I really need. So what do you think. Would it be worth it?

Just my random thoughts:

1. Don't sell a good horn you'll regret selling. You won't get it back.
2. Don't think you'll "make money" selling a horn unless you stole it or you fixed it up.
3. Don't specialize in one trombone or style unless you win a job performing. Everything makes you better.
4. Buy the best horn you can buy, one that works for you, but make sure you use it to pay for itself. Buy horns that will pay themselves off.

Gosh I miss the 36b I sold to fund my bass. Harrison’s advice is really, really good. If I could go back, I would have put together a monthly savings plan and waited. I know that’s not always possible, but I wish I still had that Bach.

I too sold a tenor shortly after I began playing bass in graduate school and regretted it. What bass do you play on currently?

I would only add, that if you do sell a tenor, it should be to help fund a tenor that you enjoy playing more, and would be a one-for-one upgrade. Nothing wrong with selling an OK 88H you've played for ten years to buy a horn you know is far better for you (though, I didn't have the guts to do this).

Look at the thread that Elow started where he forces people to choose what their main instrument is, bass or tenor -- it's 2 bass players to every one tenor player (for now at least). In a big band there should be 3 tenors to one bass, usually the same in a military band, and sometimes the same in an orchestra. That tells me that there will never be a time where you can only play bass, unless you win a full time job playing bass, and it is more than twice as difficult to do as winning a tenor slot. Even more so when you realize everyone else is self-styling themselves as an exclusive bass player.

Play large tenor, small tenor, AND bass. Chances are the paying gig will be on a small tenor.

If I got it all wrong and you're just in it to have fun, then there is no need to worry about any of this stuff. Play what you like, and don't hang on to something you don't like playing.

Don't sell the tenor.

Not knowing what tenor and bass you currently have, it is hard to give advice. What horns do you have now? If you "really need" a new bass, can you sell the old one to finance the new? I do agree with the others that keeping your tenor, even if your primary horn is bass, is a good idea. I play small bore tenor, large bore tenor, or bass depending on what I'm asked to play. Right now (or pre-COVID, anyway) I flipped from first to bass in my community band. Local big bands called me to sub for tenor and bass, depending on who couldn't make the rehearsal/gig.

don't sell the tenor - if you start working professionally you will end up needing it

I studied primarily as a tenor trombone player. From the mid 80s to the early 90s, I was getting gigs primarily on bass trombone. However, as the years passed, I shifted over to playing tenor trombone almost exclusively for a while. Now I am playing tenor on gigs and euphonium in a community band. The take from this: your needs may change over time. My college band director told me not to sell a horn unless you are replacing it because you may regret it later. And it is almost never cheaper to replace it.

I sold one horn over the years that I regret selling - a dependent 2 valve Yamaha bass I owned shortly in the mid-80s, selling it to help pay for tuition. I ended up needing to replace it about 6 months later because I started getting many gigs on bass (and the guy I sold the Yamaha to was getting annoyed at me borrowing it all the time).

Professional-grade trombones are basically free to own if you learn the market, buy secondhand at sensible prices, and aren't selling in a desperate rush. It's unlikely you'll make any significant profit (unless you got particularly lucky at the purchasing stage), but values are stable and unless you're damaging instruments the beginning-to-end cost should be negligible - you can choose to lose a little for the convenience of a quick sale or trade, or if the instrument is particularly obscure or in low demand.

As such, it's only worth liquidating assets if you really need the cash. If you like the instrument, but aren't using it at the moment, the cost of leaving it under the bed is extremely low, and almost certainly cheaper than getting a replacement - potentially at short notice - in the future... Store your slides dry, especially if they're yellow brass

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:34 amIf I got it all wrong and you're just in it to have fun, then there is no need to worry about any of this stuff. Play what you like, and don't hang on to something you don't like playing.

Even if you play "just for fun" (i.e., as an amateur), you'll find that you're locked out of a lot of playing opportunities if all you play is bass trombone. As someone already pointed out, there's 2-3 times more tenor slots that bass slots - and that's only looking at larger ensembles (concert bands, orchestras, and big bands). If you include smaller groups like quintets, the numbers look even worse (yeah, let's not get into that whole "bass trombone playing the tuba part" thing; been there, done that, got dropped like a hot potato as soon as a tuba player became available).

[media][/media]From a different perspective, I will sometimes play my bass as a big, fat tenor - with a medium to large tenor mouthpiece. The range on a bass is theoretically the same as on a tenor. The only caveat would be to choose your place and time very carefully when playing a bass as a big tenor. It often won't fit in, sound-wise.

However, why sell the tenor? Just when you do, you may wish you hadn't. There is no shortage of posts on this forum where guys have subsequently expressed regret over selling a horn. If it's a lifetime hobby or pursuit, don't worry about hording a mass of instruments. Be patient and earn the money you need to buy the bass you think you want. Don't try to Marie Kondo your trombone equipment b/c you know you love them all.

Here's me playing an old tune on my single-trigger bass, with a Bach 5G mpc and a Band-in-a-Box accompaniment.



If someone like me can do this, they you ought to be able to shred it!

For those who were wondering, The horn I am considering selling is a Bach 42bo. I like it but I don't love it. It's condition I would describe as well used. My bass is a single valve yamaha. I need a second valve since I have difficulty reaching the low c and besides that, the slide is pretty much damaged beyond the point where it would be worth it to repair.

Well, in that case...

Otherwise, I have yet to own a horn that I could outplay. But none of them had any issues "student" horns not-withstanding.

FWIW: that was a Yamaha single-trigger "student" horn and I can reach a very nice low C, although it IS quite a reach. So if you need a horn that you can access low C quickly on, that one ain't it. I arrange my music so that I don't have to go between low Bb and low C quickly. You probably do not have that luxury in an outside group.

Some instruments are worth more as an instrument than as the money they will bring in a sale. A used 42BO is probably one of those instruments.

I traded off a 42BO many years ago, actually to help get me a new double bass (I was playing a 50B at the time). Immediately, I had a bunch of gigs and opportunities playing tenor that were much more difficult to fulfill.

I would guess you're as well selling off/trading the single valve Yamaha bass than the 42BO. That's a great horn for you to keep around, but sale-wise it's common and used ones are plentiful. You'd do well to make $1000-$1500 on it, which would likely still fall quite short of the cost of the new bass.

Depending on how much you like that Yamaha bass, you could either price out getting a plug-in second valve added, or look to exchange it towards a solid two-valver you like.

Seems like most of the advice is against selling the tenor. At least the way I feel about this is that I kind of need a good bass and I would rather have that then a tenor. I'm only in high school so I make very little money so It would take a long time to save and my family isn't really in a good financial position at the moment so they can't really help. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at things though.

MagnumH wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:53 pm I would guess you're as well selling off/trading the single valve Yamaha bass than the 42BO. That's a great horn for you to keep around, but sale-wise it's common and used ones are plentiful. You'd do well to make $1000-$1500 on it, which would likely still fall quite short of the cost of the new bass.

Depending on how much you like that Yamaha bass, you could either price out getting a plug-in second valve added, or look to exchange it towards a solid two-valver you like.

Unfortunetly you seem to be overestimating this horns worth. I got it for $500 and as I mentioned the slide is damaged beyond the point of it being worth it to repair. For the price of adding a new slide plus a second valve I may as well just get a whole new horn.

Unfortunetly you seem to be overestimating this horns worth. I got it for $500 and as I mentioned the slide is damaged beyond the point of it being worth it to repair. For the price of adding a new slide plus a second valve I may as well just get a whole new horn.

Apologies, I meant that the 42BO is unlikely to fetch more than $1k.

On the contrary - If you're still in high school, I would definitely caution against limiting your playing options at this point. This is a time that you should be trying to play in every ensemble you can, playing everything you can, and that's super hard with just a bass. Plus, as I mentioned, I honestly don't think the 42 is going to contribute all that much towards the cost of a good bass.

Believe me I understand the cost and the hardship. In my high school days I played with a local (British-style) brass band pretty much purely because they let me borrow their bass bone while I was there. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but a) it was great experience, of course, and b) a few hours one evening a week was a small price to pay to learn my way around a bass trombone and be able to keep it.

To add to my previous comment...

Say you sell the 42BO. You get $1200 for it. Now you're down a tenor, and you have some money... but not enough for a double valve bass that's worth buying.

If you already have a fund set aside and this will get you into a nice Q series or used horn, then it does make a bit more sense. But if you're starting from scratch, not worth losing the instrument to just have to wait to save up the rest anyway.

You are getting some great information. Not to distract from it, but if you haven't thought of this - try pulling the F tuning slide out on your Yamaha a lot further to bring in the low C. Now play the F & C in T1 up all the way in and lip them up as well. If I have important, sustained F's and C's, I'll play them in 6th. Every horn seems to have it's peculiarities. Best of luck!

You can finance a Shires Q series bass through Music & Arts.

I’d do that, get a job to cover the payments, and sell the old bass. If you’re serious about bass trombone you need a real one. Single valve basses are great, but not as your only horn. A bunch of people will probably disagree with this, but there is a reason 99% of modern pro bass players use two valves for their main horn.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:03 pm finance

The idea that a high schooler should (or indeed could) go into debt for a new $4k instrument strikes me as, err, unusual.

I got (traded rather than bought, as it happens) a non-beautiful but serviced and completely functional Benge 290 for $1200 a few weeks ago. There's stuff out there. Keep the Bach if you can - like Aidan says, a worn 42 is probably worth more as an instrument than as cash.

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:00 pm

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:03 pm finance

The idea that a high schooler should (or indeed could) go into debt for a new $4k instrument strikes me as, err, unusual.

I got (traded rather than bought, as it happens) a non-beautiful but serviced and completely functional Benge 290 for $1200 a few weeks ago. There's stuff out there. Keep the Bach if you can - like Aidan says, a worn 42 is probably worth more as an instrument than as cash.

It happens all the time. Constantly. Kids and their families finance instruments every day at M&A. Instruments are expensive. So are lessons.

This kid wants/needs a good bass with two valves. This is a good option that lots of people are unaware of. There have already been plenty of “get a benge” type responses. This is another route.

Getting a $4k bass in HS goes against the rule "only buy a horn that will pay itself off".

There are plenty of used basses that are far less than that.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:08 pm Getting a $4k bass in HS goes against the rule "only buy a horn that will pay itself off".

There are plenty of used basses that are far less than that.

Is that a rule?

Maybe for pros...

Maybe.

And:

I got a $4000 euphonium in high school. I grew up with no money, and my grandparents had to help my parents pay for it and my lessons. Several years later, I got a full tuition scholarship to Peabody. That’s about $100k... having a nice horn helped me develop as a player tremendously.

So you never know.

People (parents) spend more money on cars, clothes, summer camps, sports, etc., etc.,

It’s like there is rule on this forum that only pros can have pro gear. I disagree.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:56 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:08 pm Getting a $4k bass in HS goes against the rule "only buy a horn that will pay itself off".

There are plenty of used basses that are far less than that.

It’s like there is rule on this forum that only pros can have pro gear. I disagree.

In what world is a used professional bass trombone not "pro gear"? It's a great rule for a high schooler -- even if they don't succeed in paying the horn off by using it for gigs, they will be better off for trying. I "paid off" my brand new 88H by age 20 (2 years) doing orchestra subs, lessons, and Easter/Christmas services. It can be done, but I would have had trouble doing that with a $4500 Shires by the end of college and I would have had to go into debt to get one.

He says his family has financial stress and he didn't make a lot of money. Going into $4k of debt for a Shires Q (already a compromise) isn't sound advice.

There is something to be said for working hard, saving up, weighing the decision to sell a horn, and buying something really good. Used can often be better than new. Especially if the comparison is a Shires Q. With a Q, you're really paying for "Q"uality control on a horn that is not assembled in MA.They are by no means a bad horn, but there are plenty of cheaper used trombones that will blow a brand new Q out of the water, including parting together a used Shires custom.

Im not really interested in bickering. That’s why I mostly just read the threads here rather than contributing regularly.

I never said not to buy a used horn. If you find one you like, great. There are definitely some great ones out there.

If not, financing is a way to buy a new one. Most people don’t realize you can buy an instrument that way. Btw, financing is how people who aren’t rich buy things like cars, houses, and an education. No upward mobility otherwise.

And trombone/music can’t be measured with a spreadsheet. It’s always a poor financial decision, but luckily life isn’t finance.

I’m done on this thread. I hope the OP can find a horn they love that helps them grow with joy.

ArbanRubank wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:28 pm You are getting some great information. Not to distract from it, but if you haven't thought of this - try pulling the F tuning slide out on your Yamaha a lot further to bring in the low C. Now play the F & C in T1 up all the way in and lip them up as well. If I have important, sustained F's and C's, I'll play them in 6th. Every horn seems to have it's peculiarities. Best of luck!

Somewhere on this forum was a picture of somebody’s homemade E-pull solution - a piece of string tied between the top of the tuning slide and the brace below that, when fully taut, means the valve is tuned to E to get those juicy low Cs (and Bs!). And with good string (and good knots!) it means you can pull it out in a hurry with little fear of removing the tuning slide altogether!

I would not sell the tenor... at this point in your playing you’ll get more use out of the tenor than a bass... my advice... get a job, save every penny... find a good used bass... there are plenty out there all the time... then, sell your single bass to supplement what you have saved. Then you have your tenor and a good bass. The single bass will be ok for now... hang in there...

When I went through HS (way back in the last century) I used the school's bass trombone. That Olds Ambassador was not as good a bass as a Bach 42, but it DID balance and mix well with the upper trombones.

More recently I had a choral gig to play. The trombone section agreed to do Conn Alto on top, 78H on 2nd, and Benge 190 (not a misprint... not a 290... a 190) on the bottom. NEVER got "the hand" at any point in rehearsals or performance. Singers reported being able to key in on their parts clearly with the voicings we used.

Here's an excellent link from another thread to help give an idea:

MrHCinDE wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:00 am How about the holy grail with the best of both worlds:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSL6wghp5VQ

Sounds like the Bach is the better of your two horns. Best to keep it. Have you tried it with your "regular" bass mouthpiece? Perhaps use THAT as your single rotor bass until you can work out a double rotor monster.

On a slightly different consideration, I found that a certain amount of tenor practice was helpful in avoiding "tuba on a stick" sound from my bass. It is EASY to get a woofy sound with very little core on wide-bore horns. I found tenor practice to help me avoid that.

Do you want the phone to ring for gigs? Don't pigeon hole yourself into being a "bass" trombone player- be a trombone player. Today you must be as versatile as you can. That means you need to be able to play big band on small tenor, dixieland, salsa and rock band, and leave the large tenor and bass for concert and orchestra and quintet. And practice your doubles! Focus on being a first call trombone player!

The best trombone players I have ever known were musicians. Be a musician. Then figure out what gear you need to get and keep work.

I agree with Dean McCarty. Don't sell the tenor or Bass. Save up money until you can afford a used double valve bass and get what slide work you may need done in the meantime. And don't quit playing tenor because people that play only bass for long enough can sometimes lose the ability to play tenor trombone easily and naturally and have to work very hard to get it back. Practice both instruments everyday. Much of what you need to learn on bass can be learned on a single valve by the way.

JCBone wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:53 pm Seems like most of the advice is against selling the tenor. At least the way I feel about this is that I kind of need a good bass and I would rather have that then a tenor. I'm only in high school so I make very little money so It would take a long time to save and my family isn't really in a good financial position at the moment so they can't really help. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at things though.

I think there is a lot of solid advice in here and I tend to agree, keep what you have and save what you can. There's a lot to be gained by playing a single valve bass well that'll carry over to a dependent or independent bass. I feel like it's important to ask if you plan on going to college for music and how long down the road that'd be for you? If that's happening soon you may want to wait and see what your professor in the music department recommends and it's possible they have horns you can check out. I used my University's bass for several years and I'm not even in the music department.