TromboneChat

Hi all,

I just recently got reacquainted with a late 1960s Olds Special (Fullerton) with a tri-colored bell that I used for much of my high school and immediate post high school career, and am contemplating getting a full restoration. The horn isn't in completely terrible shape but it ain't pretty either. There a little bit of crumpling in the bell, a few dents on the tuning crook, some joints needing resoldering, and overall the finish is quite rough and very splotchy. Slide is not bad but needs some work to find and remove a dent causing some sticking around position 4. It was a school horn that they let me keep when I graduated in the late 90s, as they weren't planning on getting it repaired, and they needed the storage space for a batch of new instruments coming in that summer. I know a restoration including a full delacquering, dent removal, soldering, buffing and relacquering isn't really worth it, but as I got her for free I don't mind spending a bit to bring her up to a more presentable appearance for purely sentimental reasons. Despite being an intermediate horn, she was always a great performer for me, from marching band to concert band to numerous small ensemble groups for the five or six years I played it regularly.

Anyhow, I know a big part of a full restoration cost comes down to the time invested in buffing and polishing to get the brass back to that factory shine. So to keep the cost from spiraling out of control, I'm contemplating a modified finish for this horn. Maybe something like all the yellow brass (which includes the hand slide, and the bell section from the gooseneck-bell support on back) being done in brushed satin finish, and the nickel-silver and red brass bell flair being done with the standard high-gloss finish? Nickel-silver ferrules would probably be satin finished, as well.

But I don't know. I'm honestly not a huge fan of the brushed finish look, but I don't have much direct experience with it, either (think it started became more popular as I was getting out of playing 20 years ago). I also don't know how the transition from brushed to shiny would look, since there isn't a ferrule or anything at that transition point on the bell. So I'm a bit torn as I consider my options.

Anyone have any experience with such a part-brushed/part-shiny restoration? What are you thoughts on how it came out? Would you do it again, or go either full high-gloss or full satin?

Thanks

The finish on my 40s era Olds Studio was in really bad shape when I bought it about a year ago. About half the lacquer was gone and lots of tarnish. I stripped the lacquer with boiling water and polished the bare metal with Mothers Mag polish using blue shop towels. It shined up nice and pretty. To slow down re-oxidation of the raw metal I use a liberal amount of Pledge and a microfiber cloth. Maybe $20 in materials and a few hours of my time.

Cymrych79 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:55 pm
Anyhow, I know a big part of a full restoration cost comes down to the time invested in buffing and polishing to get the brass back to that factory shine. So to keep the cost from spiraling out of control, I'm contemplating a modified finish for this horn. Maybe something like all the yellow brass (which includes the hand slide, and the bell section from the gooseneck-bell support on back) being done in brushed satin finish, and the nickel-silver and red brass bell flair being done with the standard high-gloss finish? Nickel-silver ferrules would probably be satin finished, as well.

Did you actually talk to a tech who said this will cost less money?

The only way to save money on the refinishing is to leave the instrument unlacquered. Unfortunately this means it will tarnish and develop a patina. You can slow the tarnishing process by waxing the exposed brass surfaces with a good hard wax, but eventually you will need to polish the thing again. Another worry about unlacquered horns is you MUST wipe down any condensate that drips down the bell -- that will create a very deep black stain that will be nearly impossible to remove.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:38 pm Did you actually talk to a tech who said this will cost less money?

Sorry for the long delay; been out of town for work.

Yes, I did indeed. Basically, since a high-gloss finish requires a whole lot more time to work the minor imperfections out during buffing, compared to a brush finish where all those little imperfections are swallowed up in the brushing, that's what makes the time/cost difference. I can't recall exactly the time he quoted me, but I think he told me that a full restoration buffing would take him about a day depending on how deep/numerous the scratches and pits were, whereas he could brush finish half a dozen or more straight trombones in the same amount of time.

But it doesn't matter now; same tech also offered a lighter version of a full restoration, which entails a lighter buffing that restores a uniform look of the metal finish but doesn't focus on getting each and every minor scratch out, followed by clear lacquer. He called it the "3-ft treatment", in that from 3-ft away it looks mint, but closer inspection will reveal some of the minor scratches. As I didn't need anything as involved as a full showroom-floor level of restoration, just a "facelift" to make it look prettier and stop further corrosion damage, I went that route. A brushed finish never came up after we chatted about the light version restoration option, so I don't know where that slotted in cost-wise compared to this economy restoration.

Came out great! Such a contrast from the horn I sent him, both visually and mechanically. All the dents are gone without a trace, I can't tell that the gooseneck brace needed brazing work, and the slide is coming into it's own nicely. Still only a few days into the post-slide job daily swabbings, but the slide is getting better and better by the day. Overall, I couldn't be more pleased with the results.

Cymrych79 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 3:20 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:38 pm Did you actually talk to a tech who said this will cost less money?

Sorry for the long delay; been out of town for work.

Yes, I did indeed. Basically, since a high-gloss finish requires a whole lot more time to work the minor imperfections out during buffing, compared to a brush finish where all those little imperfections are swallowed up in the brushing, that's what makes the time/cost difference. I can't recall exactly the time he quoted me, but I think he told me that a full restoration buffing would take him about a day depending on how deep/numerous the scratches and pits were, whereas he could brush finish half a dozen or more straight trombones in the same amount of time.

But it doesn't matter now; same tech also offered a lighter version of a full restoration, which entails a lighter buffing that restores a uniform look of the metal finish but doesn't focus on getting each and every minor scratch out, followed by clear lacquer. He called it the "3-ft treatment", in that from 3-ft away it looks mint, but closer inspection will reveal some of the minor scratches. As I didn't need anything as involved as a full showroom-floor level of restoration, just a "facelift" to make it look prettier and stop further corrosion damage, I went that route. A brushed finish never came up after we chatted about the light version restoration option, so I don't know where that slotted in cost-wise compared to this economy restoration.

Came out great! Such a contrast from the horn I sent him, both visually and mechanically. All the dents are gone without a trace, I can't tell that the gooseneck brace needed brazing work, and the slide is coming into it's own nicely. Still only a few days into the post-slide job daily swabbings, but the slide is getting better and better by the day. Overall, I couldn't be more pleased with the results.

Oh, good. Just wanted to make sure, because I don't think most techs would offer a price reduction for scratch brush finish. Sounds like this guy does, though.

If you look at a professional satin finish, like Edwards, Kanstul, etc. the scratch brushing isn't "hiding" anything. It's actually buffed beforehand and THEN scratch brushed.

There was a shop I used to go to that offered a similar service. They didn't buff nearly as thoroughly as other repair places I've encountered initially and would essentially make it look good from a distance. I like the "3ft" descriptor they came up with here. They mostly did "band repair" though so their primary customers were middle/high school students.

Something to consider with a tri-color Olds Special is that, unlike the Studio, which has a brass bell taper and a nickel silver bell flare, the bell flare is bronze plated. I also recall seeing a Special that was in wretched shape which had corroded to the point that it appeared that the nickel silver on the bell was plated as well, and had come off in places.

Doubler wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:34 pm Something to consider with a tri-color Olds Special....

Good to note on the plating over brass for the Special. Fortunately, I don't seem to have that issue of the plating chipping free!

Anyone know when Olds used this tri-color scheme? I've only seen one other Special with it, and didn't even know it was used on the Studios, but can't seem to find anything about it online, except for some ancient posts here that mention it in passing.

Cymrych79 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 pm

Doubler wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:34 pm Something to consider with a tri-color Olds Special....

Good to note on the plating over brass for the Special. Fortunately, I don't seem to have that issue of the plating chipping free!

Anyone know when Olds used this tri-color scheme? I've only seen one other Special with it, and didn't even know it was used on the Studios, but can't seem to find anything about it online, except for some ancient posts here that mention it in passing.

Try this: http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds.htm . I'm not sure of the specific years the Special had the tri-tone treatment; I'm guessing early 1960s thru mid-1970s. The two-tone bell Studio began around 1949, and it changed to nickel silver plated brass in perhaps 1966.

Neat, thanks Doubler! I'll check that out tomorrow.