TromboneChat

We had a PRO sit in with us last night--toured with Woody Herman for a couple of years. His horn looked well used and had a trumpet style water key. Got me intrigued--I confess, I'm a gearhead.

He was playing his Benge Freelance. Not sure how old it was but he thought it was around 50 years old. He certainly was able to take the lead on several of our pieces without the horn holding him back. It had a wonderful sound (he had?) and was able to lead the section. The Freelance is a 0.500 bore with a 7.75" bell--a sweet combination.

Two of our players (to include Vaughn) were on small bores and we had a 0.547 and a 0.563 bass.

What fun. Noticed a nice one on Reverb--how tempting.

We had a great time!

I doubt he would have used the horn with the Herman band. The Benge trombones date to the early 1980s.

Woody Herman died in 1987 and was touring pretty well right up to the end, so it’s possible he played this horn with the herd.

The 170 is basically a combination of a 3B and 2B+ on steroids. Jim Pugh played one.

Vaughn toured with Woody in the 70s. Not sure what horn he used with that band but the one he played last night had seen a lot of use.

I think Jim Pugh had something to do with the design of the 170 - not in terms of the actual work, but I think he was a consultant who played the prototypes and commented on what he thought worked best. He had a similar role with the early Edwards small bores, and I think with Shires as well. What a great player, and he has helped bring some great horns to the marketplace.

Jim Scott

It's entirely possible that the earlier Benge company made a couple of trombones, just like Callicchio did.

According to Wikipedia, Benge was in Chicago 1939-1953, then Burbank and LA until 1970. King bought the name in 1972. Trombones came later.

Great horn, I had one for a short while in mint condition but traded it to have custom work done on my Rath R1 which I prefer!
If i'd had more wonga I'd have kept it as a backup

I have never hear of that model name... Do you know anything more about it?

The "Freelance" was the 170. The 175, 190 and 290 were "Symphonic".

I love mine, great horn the 170

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 8:19 am I have never hear of that model name... Do you know anything more about it?

This is what djkennedy commented in December 2020.

https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... ce#p132980

170’Freelance
Gold Brass flare
3B tuning slide
500 bore slide
Brass outer slide tubes
Trumpet weep valve
Straight bell receiver brace
Bells several engraving patterns
Benge logo 2 screw balance weight
NOT BRASS FLARE NO CURVY BELL BRACE
3B compatibility slide bell receivers
Several finish tints
---
8 inch diameter
Have owned 4


https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... ce#p132887

Benge Freelance 170
Basically a Gold brass 3B w straight instead of curved bell brace
Slide brass outers(Same as 100h) in 500 bore
Engraving pattern variations one has engraved inside the flare
Jim Pugh wore the finish off one in Steely Dan
2 here in studio

I started reading details in the first lines of the initial post, Benge Freelance, Woody Herman, and immediately thought - man, that sounds like it could be Vaughn Weister. I miss him. He played lead in Ernie Krivda's band here in Cleveland when I started with them several years ago. A free lesson in big band trombone playing at every gig.

I think he told me that Benge belonged to Gary Carney before it became his.

bassclef, you're right. It was a joy sitting in a section with him as well as listening to his solos. It was an experience that will not be forgotten.

Vaughn! I played with him a couple times. Great player and person.

I would love to play a 170 sometime. I suspect it's just a 2b+ slide on a gold brass 3B bell (since the tenon is the same anyway), but perhaps there are some differences of which I'm unaware. I wonder if there's an old parts sheet laying around that someone would be able to find out about the neckpipe and leadpipe. I bet they play great; that era (the Chuck Ward era) of Kings is easily my favorite. The 2b+, at that time branded the 2115, and Jiggs horns from then are out of this world.

It's not JUST a 2b plus slide on a 3b bell... It may have the same specs but is a different horn, hope you get to play one they are great

I just bought an early 90ies Benge 170 Freelance. What a great horn! Never heard of this model when it came out (living in Europe..). 8 gold brass bell, .500 bore, 195 gr slide weight, no oversleeves. KIng 3B .508 slide fits, too.
The brochure is linked to my facebook site, I hope it is visible for everybody!



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I bought a Freelance, the one from Reverb that the OP mentioned, for my son. Seems to like it a lot but he is still getting used to it.

Can you tell me what Mouthpiece you are using with it? My son has been using a Marc Jiggs Wigham, which he has always liked. He is saying that the sound breaks up a bit here and there with the Freelance.

Also, how do you date these Benges? The serial number on my son's is 331XXX. Curious to know the date for this one.

There is an engraving on the inside of the bell "BENGE", kinda cool.

The Jiggs Whigham is a good mouthpiece for that horn (Jiggs horn is similar but a lighter bell) but I did not work for me (thirty years ago...). I think a cheap copy of a 11C or 12C is a good start. I play KLier Exclusice mps (they are from Germany) My Benge has a 159XXX and is from 1992. It has a very 3B ish bell (gold brass) but another bead..
I guess yours is another version (yellow brass, maybe smaller bell).

This Benge is the same... gold brass 8" bell, .500 bore, I think a lighter weight slide.

A very underrated horn, kind of 6H specs but more flexible than these..I really love the light brass slide (under 200 gr) whichs plays different from the 3B slide. And the bell is something special, too..

They are GREAT !!!”