TromboneChat

Hi Everyone,

In 2004, I visited Chuck McAlexander's Brass Lab shop on West 25th Street in Manhattan. Seeing all of the leadpipes that he offered, I felt like a kid in a candy shop! I brought along a couple of instruments and stood there for about three hours sampling leadpipes. I think I purchased three or four by the time I left.

One of those leadpipes was Chuck's T2000-3-Std, which is his 2000 rendition of Bach's long open leadpipe in a standard gauge of drawn brass. It is a great leadpipe and I still use it on a couple of equipment combinations. Another was the B85-49, which is more of a mystery. I know that it is .562 bore drawn brass from his 1985 line of leadpipes. I know nothing more about it other than the magic it creates on my 1950's Conn 72H......it is spectacular.

Does a list of Chuck's leadpipes with specs exist? Did he only create the 1985 and 2000 series, or were there more? Did he keep the information and tooling for the custom leadpipes that he made? I imagine that there are probably hundreds or possibly thousands of his leadpipes out there still being used by musicians.

He's still around, give him a shout!

OK, I heard that his shop was closed and he had retired. After snooping around on the Internet, it looks like he might still sell stuff online. I will definitely contact him.

I contacted him about leadpipes in the past and he didn't really have specs. His business model was that he would make you three intentionally different ones, and wouldn't tell you anything about them other than the material and the length. You could pick the one you liked best or all three if you wanted, paying more if you kept all three.

Of course he also had a stash of pipes that were already made you could try. Seemed like an awesome guy, and I donated to his GoFundMe to try and help the guy out. I feel bad his shop closed. I know some of the circumstances, and it was an all around tough situation for him and his wife.

There were other series such as the T-90, T-91, T90-1 Etc. The number corresponded to the year and the order they were developed. There were also pipes that were named after the player they were developed for, such as the Schatz pipes.
In most cases, the named pipes were copies of what a customer brought in that were popular and the numbered pipes were copies of pipes by Bach, King, Conn. etc. that Chuck copied when he had an interesting pipe come in on a horn he was working on.

I remember Chuck had a hand written list with a basic description of the numbered pipes, but who knows if he still has it or knows where it is.
I think the loss of his business was very painful for him, I know it was for many players, so he may not be too interested in reliving any of that at this point.

Chuck is a master craftsman and a great person, it’s a shame he’s not in the business anymore, going to him was always fun; my horn and I always left in better shape than when we came in.

FWIW, I had gone to him for leadpipes for my 36H alto. I didn't end up getting one, and shortly after that I "solved" the 36H by chopping 3/8" off the tuning slide and getting the long DE alto shank. A leadpipe wouldn't have done what those changes did.

Being a 396-A fan, which has a relatively open fixed pipe, I've learned that you can get that horn to do anything with the harmonic brace and different mouthpieces, short of playing like a 2B. It's got me thinking that leadpipes are a sort of wildcard change you do that might better be left alone. In most cases the one they stick in there is the best, and maybe the player just has the mouthpiece all wrong or is trying to turn a horn into something it's not.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:51 am .... It's got me thinking that leadpipes are a sort of wildcard change you do that might better be left alone. In most cases the one they stick in there is the best, and maybe the player just has the mouthpiece all wrong or is trying to turn a horn into something it's not.

So, I'm not quite here on my philosophy... but it's pretty close. I'd phrase it more that there are many minor nuances and interactions with other design features that make the variability of response rather high.

Myself, I'm too tempted to keep tweaking to find the perfect response... so I gave up and just let the merry-go-round stop wherever it was at that time.

Back on topic, some of the most fascinating pipes I ever played were a couple of friends pipes from the BrassLab. They'd pull it up and you would see that hand engraving... You knew it would be interesting. I never could talk a buddy into selling me his Schatz pipe. No idea what the specs were, and I think that was part of the mystery and fun of them.

Cheers,
Andy

Edwards & Shires pipes are really good and somewhat distinct from a lot of other pipes. Although I thought the 396A was more like a sterling silver bach pipe, but longer... so more slotting but the longer does make it more open. But I might be misremembering and just thinking of Alessi's old pipe he played before the artist series.

At any rate, the pipes seem to make a big difference on a lot of horns that don't have pipes of those designs. Something about the length and relative taper of them seems to work really well almost universally. I wouldn't necessarily say that about all pipes (or no pipe!) Or maybe put another way, I don't know if you'd be able to put a 2 piece King 4B pipe in the 396A and make it work. But if I were buying blind and I had the choice between say a King 4B with an Edwards 2 or a stock pipe... I'd probably guess the one with the Edwards pipe would work better for me. But perhaps that falls under the definition of trying to make a horn something that it is not. A crime that I flagrantly violate very frequently

No response from my inquiry to the email associated with the Brass Lab website. It appears to be an abandoned website. I cannot blame Chuck for wanting to cut ties with the instrument world and move on. He was nice guy and a great tech with impressive skills. I wish him well.

Concerning the discussion of “do different leadpipes make a difference,” I definitely feel that the smallest changes make a difference. I have stated the following on other threads: There are players that can pick up almost any horn and feel comfortable/sound great on it. Then, there are players that need very specific things on their instruments in order to feel comfortable/play well. Of course, there is a continuum between those two ends because most players are some place in between.

If you are the former, count your blessings and appreciate your natural ability to adjust to equipment quickly and easily. If you are the latter like me, be grateful that we presently live in a time when there are so many choices and keep do your best to find equipment that maximizes your talents. Leadpipe changes make a huge difference for me. I even notice a difference with very subtle things like altering the width of the throat by 1/1000th of an inch or trimming 1/2 inch off the end.

In the interest of keeping the nice chat going:

I'm not saying anything like "leadpipes don't make a difference" -- I'm just saying that leadpipes don't do what the package says. The 88H leadpipe, for example, really the most open pipe I have. The 88H is not that though; it's compact, it projects, it's got attitude, and you can go off the rails with it. The opposite of what you'd think an open pipe would be, but that is because of what the rest of an 88H is.

Likewise, my Edwards has a somewhat open pipe, but definitely not an 88H pipe. It stays more on the rails and in its base configuration plays way bigger than an 88H.

In my mind it's best to just not mess with it unless you're building a modular horn, and then it's usually like, "oh look at all these options, but the "2" is best". I did find on the shires alto that the 1 pipe was best.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:12 pm

In my mind it's best to just not mess with it unless you're building a modular horn, and then it's usually like, "oh look at all these options, but the "2" is best".

Yuuuuuup!

Yes, I agree with you (Harrisonreed and Burgerbob) on most of what you say. Horns are researched and designed to be optimal for the "majority of players" and most horns achieve that. However, the two of you strike me as being somewhat natural players and can (I am hypothesizing here) probably feel comfortable on almost any horn that you are given.

I am not like that.....the "2" is not always the best for me. As a matter of fact, my preferred Shires .547 pipe is a 2.6 long (designated 2.6 because I opened up the throat of a 2.5 a little over 1/1000th of an inch). My preferred Edwards pipe is an Alessi Sterling Silver 2.5 "trimmed" (designated 2.5 because I opened the throat about 4/1000 of an inch, designated "trimmed" because I cut the length down to 10 inches from the original 11 inches). I also have the original "2" for both of these brands, an original Edwards SS Alessi and an original Shires 2.5 long. When I compared my preferred leadpipes to those "originals," the difference in my success on the instrument is quite pronounced.

I don't think that leadpipes come with a manual that describes a projected impact. Possibly, the numbering system is a downfall in some ways. Players seek to get a more open feel, so they will naturally go to a larger number. It might turn out that they will get better results with a "smaller" leadpipe. Maybe, manufacturers should avoid having numbers that indicate sizes. That was one of the beautiful things about Chuck McAlexander's leadpipes. His numbers were not related to sizes or any measurements, they were just arbitrary numbers. He encouraged you to just try them all and you might find one or two that would work well for you.

On a side note.....yes, the standard 8H/88H leadpipe is rather open, but it balances the horn. The slide crook on the 8H/88H is rather constrictive (.579-.580 bore) as well as the main tuning slide. The horn is "balanced" in resistance because it is a little more open in one area and a little more restricted in another. Each (decent playing) instrument is balanced in a different way.

So I checked my records and it seems that they sent me this via mail a few years ago and I scanned it.


BTW, I wasn't meaning to suggest that anyone was suggesting that leadpipes don't make a difference. More that, much like Crazy's point, that the pipe in the 396 was designed to have perhaps a less opinionated pipe (or more open, more flexible, yada yada yada) which is what lets the harmonic pillars have as much of an influence on the way it feels as it does. And so on such a horn, playing around with the leadpipe 1) might harm its ability to be as flexible as it is and 2) might not be effective anyway because it is already similar or identical to other pipes that are put in horns to be more "generic" or flexible (or that its design makes it perhaps even better than those in whatever nebulous way "better" would mean there). Which is to say the design of the #2 pipes for both Shires & Edwards is REALLY good.

FWIW, I have replaced the pipes on quite a few horns and found a #2 (mostly Shires but a few Edwards) to work on all of the following quite well:

• Conn 36H
• Rudy Muck small bore (485/500)
• YSL354
• Conn 4H
• King 2B+/3B
• YSL356
• Bach 16M
• YSL645/646
• Bach 36
• Wessex Alto (525/547)
• Bach 42
• Several franken horns in the 525/547/562 slide range on tenors
• Bach 50
• Miraphone Bass

Am I just hyper opinionated? Probably. Although there is perhaps something to be said about consistency... even if it is just a hobgoblin of my little mind. But its a pretty safe pipe to migrate to in my experience if you find going down the expensive rabbit hole of finding magic brass tubes fun.

That said, an ironic sidenote: None of the horns I currently play have a #2 pipe in them. And the main slide I use for classical stuff on my 525/547 is from a Conn student model.

That's a cool chart! I am surprised because I would speculate that Chuck would have had many more options for .547 bore. Possibly he ran out of many models and only resupplied the ones that he knew would sell?!? Any chance you might have a scan of the bass pipes?

Interesting that the Shires 2 and the Edwards 2 are the considered to be the "go to" leadpipes for so many. Trumpet players feel the same about the Bach 25 leadpipe. I have installed a Bach 25 leadpipe on a few different brands of trumpets over the years. My brother (a trumpet player) had a Bach 25 installed on an Olds Ambassador trumpet (the bell stem needed to be cut shorter) and he loves it. It is one of his "go to" trumpets!

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:10 pm That's a cool chart! I am surprised because I would speculate that Chuck would have had many more options for .547 bore. Possibly he ran out of many models and only resupplied the ones that he knew would sell?!? Any chance you might have a scan of the bass pipes?

Interesting that the Shires 2 and the Edwards 2 are the considered to be the "go to" leadpipes for so many. Trumpet players feel the same about the Bach 25 leadpipe. I have installed a Bach 25 leadpipe on a few different brands of trumpets over the years. My brother (a trumpet player) had a Bach 25 installed on an Olds Ambassador trumpet (the bell stem needed to be cut shorter) and he loves it. It is one of his "go to" trumpets!

Brian send me a pm if you want to discuss more regarding Chuck's pipes.