TromboneChat

Check this out!



https://www.buddenbohm.com/travelbone/

Also a pretty nuts wrap on his "normal" tenor he plays at the start.

Now that's cool! Buddenbohm is doing nice stuff!

So a large bore version of the horn Yamaha made ages ago.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:37 pm So a large bore version of the horn Yamaha made ages ago.

That's the impression I got, plus the addition of screwbell and a new case.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:39 pm

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:37 pm So a large bore version of the horn Yamaha made ages ago.

That's the impression I got, plus the addition of screwbell and a new case.

A case that seems to be specifically designed to ruin the slide?

I like the horn. I would not use a case like that.

(Also make it a double with an F valve with the ascending C valve).

Cheers,
Andy

It is an interesting idea, but I couldn’t tell, is the hand slide shorter than normal?

mbtrombone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:01 pm It is an interesting idea, but I couldn’t tell, is the hand slide shorter than normal?

Yes. Should only have 6 positions in Bb.

I totally should have patented that idea!
Definitely not a fan of that case, though.

This has me thinking of a lot of possibilities, but the biggest question is why buy something like this? Are you going to make it your normal everyday horn so that when you fly to play David with X orchestra you’re already comfortable on this setup? Or are you just using it as a tool to practice while away?

If the latter then why not simply take an alto with screwbell, borrow/rent a horn, buzz on a mouthpiece/one of the many devices that attach on, or just enjoy vacation and take a break? It just seems like an expensive solution to a question I wouldn’t be asking; I’m all for innovation and weird stuff I just don’t see the broad appeal.

elmsandr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:07 pm(Also make it a double with an F valve with the ascending C valve).

On their website, they list three models;
Travelbone S - .500"/.525", 8" bell, in Bb with a whole step ascending valve
Travelbone L - .547", 8.5" bell, in Bb with a whole step ascending valve, and

Travelbone Pro: .547", 8.5" bell, with a "Quint-Ventil" (fifth valve). I really with there was a pic of this one. It sounds like it's still just one valve. If you can get an honest five positions, that'd give you low Db in T5 and low C in 1st, so you'd be fully chromatic down to a pedal Db.

I'd be on board with a small bass configured with these ideas. The model S is like the Yamaha and the Jinbao/Schiller.

Some of their valve wraps look like Schagerl.

Do you really need to go smaller than the viola case sized instrument you get with a closed wrap and a screwbell? The short slide seems like a major drawback:

"I'm a professional musician who needs to travel constantly and play concerts all over the world, so let me bring along my .... short slide non standard trombone".....?

I don't get it. It's still the size of a roll aboard, which is not really any better than the viola case option.

Besides, a Tank case is still cheaper than this, I imagine, and lets you bring whatever trombone you want.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:28 pm Do you really need to go smaller than the viola case...

The search for a smaller instrument lead me to have unnatural thoughts about a clarinet once. So ease up on the poor chap for making something someone else can enjoy. I think it's a great idea. Don't like the case with putting the bell through the slide, but a smaller tbone is a good thing.

A hard case with extra protection on the slide size, and adjustable padding between the bell and the slide would put my mind at ease better.

I am curious about the valve wrap if the first tenor though. Doesn’t it interfere with player’s neck?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:28 pm Do you really need to go smaller than the viola case sized instrument you get with a closed wrap and a screwbell? The short slide seems like a major drawback:

"I'm a professional musician who needs to travel constantly and play concerts all over the world, so let me bring along my .... short slide non standard trombone".....?

I don't get it. It's still the size of a roll aboard, which is not really any better than the viola case option.

Besides, a Tank case is still cheaper than this, I imagine, and lets you bring whatever trombone you want.

I have never flown with a trombone and never intend to need to, but I could still stand to have a smaller trombone for some situations. Pit orchestras exist. Short slide is helpful if there is no room, but need to keep the horn chromatic for the planned range.

I made myself a prototype Eb/Bb/G Large bore Tenor trombone for just such a reason. I think I would go for C/Bb/F if I were to do one in a Bass type configuration.

For what I was intending, the size of the case was secondary. Though if I put a screwbell on my prototype I could fit in a 24"x12"x4" briefcase.

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:07 pm

elmsandr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:07 pm(Also make it a double with an F valve with the ascending C valve).

On their website, they list three models;
Travelbone S - .500"/.525", 8" bell, in Bb with a whole step ascending valve
Travelbone L - .547", 8.5" bell, in Bb with a whole step ascending valve, and

Travelbone Pro: .547", 8.5" bell, with a "Quint-Ventil" (fifth valve). I really with there was a pic of this one. It sounds like it's still just one valve. If you can get an honest five positions, that'd give you low Db in T5 and low C in 1st, so you'd be fully chromatic down to a pedal Db.

I was curious if the first horn he is playing is this horn. That valve loop looks long, like a quint. If the slide is short, I don't get it, you'd be missing some fairly necessary notes. If the slide is long, I still don't quite get it. I don't like a single Eb valve unless I really need one, but that's me. If it is an un-pictured double... I really want to see a picture. That sounds like a useful horn.

Cheers,
Andy

elmsandr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:48 am
I have never flown with a trombone and never intend to need to, but I could still stand to have a smaller trombone for some situations. Pit orchestras exist. Short slide is helpful if there is no room, but need to keep the horn chromatic for the planned range.

I made myself a prototype Eb/Bb/G Large bore Tenor trombone for just such a reason. I think I would go for C/Bb/F if I were to do one in a Bass type configuration.

For what I was intending, the size of the case was secondary. Though if I put a screwbell on my prototype I could fit in a 24"x12"x4" briefcase.

Cheers,
Andy

Yeah, I have flown many many times with a trombone -- to Alaska, to Japan, twice to Korea, to Palau, all over the United States -- never once would I want a short tenor trombone. I can immediately see the usefulness of a screw bell, but I don't own one. My alto fits in the overhead without issue. My tenor and alto fit together in a tank case without issue.

Call this trombone the pit trombone, sure, it might solve that problem amazingly well (though once you've got two or three valves on a trombone and a one foot slide, you might as well just play euph with a pitch finder). This travel horn is no smaller than a screw bell case and creates additional problems, rather than only solving problems. I've heard a bunch about your prototype trombone, and it sounds like it works great and you've spent the time to learn to play it. Having never seen one ever, I guess yours is probably the only one. I wouldn't want to have to not play a Bb tenor just because I'm traveling, especially when someone is paying me. The comment about showing up to play the David with an orchestra overseas or someplace with this thing is right on the money.

I'll say, I guess, if it sounded great and I was motivated to learn an entirely new instrument, maybe it'd be the perfect solution for me. That's a pretty tiny slice of the market!

elmsandr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:48 am
I was curious if the first horn he is playing is this horn. That valve loop looks long, like a quint. If the slide is short, I don't get it, you'd be missing some fairly necessary notes. If the slide is long, I still don't quite get it. I don't like a single Eb valve unless I really need one, but that's me. If it is an un-pictured double... I really want to see a picture. That sounds like a useful horn.

Cheers,
Andy

Yeah, the small horn is lighter in addition to being smaller. Weight reduction is a benefit for a lot of players.

I like the C/Bb config for tenor, and the C/Bb/F for bass should they go that far with it. The single Eb valve (with a full 7 position slide) gives you a fully chromatic horn with a single valve. I had a horn with a replaceable valve tuning slide to change from F to Eb. It was better than a plugin valve, and still allowed you to play on a single when that is most of your playing. But you have to be willing to use 7th position for low es and bs. The Eb quint valve doesn't fit with the compact horn idea, but it might be somewhat lighter than a double plug.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:22 am ...
I'll say, I guess, if it sounded great and I was motivated to learn an entirely new instrument, maybe it'd be the perfect solution for me. That's a pretty tiny slice of the market!

One point on the original horn... It isn't "entirely new". By having the valve stand in Bb, it is the same as you are currently used to. Just no 6th or 7th position. But you get those with the valve, and though not the same as your current F attachment, the notes are in the same place on the slide, more or less for C and B.

As for my Eb hack job... consider that it works so well that I had to re-build it and it hasn't left the house in a decade. Not ready for prime time. I did it mainly because I had some parts from some trashed horns that had no damage that was affected by the cut. So they were perfect for that point.

Lastly, it occurs to me that a quint valve on a C horn is an F attachment; so this horn would be C/F? That would be all new and I am curious about that as a concept.

Cheers,
Andy

elmsandr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:03 am Lastly, it occurs to me that a quint valve on a C horn is an F attachment; so this horn would be C/F? That would be all new and I am curious about that as a concept.

Cheers,
Andy

That would still require 7 shorter positions, on a shorter slide. You'd have to relearn all the positions or play it as a transposing instrument.

elmsandr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:03 am Lastly, it occurs to me that a quint valve on a C horn is an F attachment; so this horn would be C/F? That would be all new and I am curious about that as a concept.

It's a six port rotor, and you're always playing through one extra loop. So the straight horn is in C, but the 'neutral' trigger position sends the air through the Bb loop. With the trigger engaged, it's in F (i.e. C plus long quint loop).

Not a bad idea - keeps the feel of both sides more equally valvey.

So, the valve on the first horn he plays must have 2 stop points, or, 2 directions of travel. The casing has 6 ports.

As it stands, the horn is in Bb, activate the valve one direction, and it ascends to C. Activate the other direction it descends to F. (This loop looks long because you have to add in the tubing that is usually in play when played in Bb)

You cannot use the F valve when you're playing in C.

Air path 1 3 6 4 for Bb
1 5 2 4 for F

...non?

(a bit like an Alex 103 change valve)

I has to be a 3 port valve.

1/6 - 3/4 for Bb
1-4 (straight) for C
1/2 - 6/4 for F.

So it has 3 positions.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:56 am I has to be a 3 port valve.

1/6 - 3/4 for Bb
1-4 (straight) for C
1/2 - 6/4 for F.

So it has 3 positions.

Oooh. I get it now.

Cool.

Where can we get one of these valves, I've got about a half dozen ideas for that now... Anybody know who makes something like this in reasonable trombone sizes?

Had to put this on a bigger screen and Zapruder it for a bit to get a good look. (Still hate the case, do you see the way the slide moves as he is sliding in the bell... no thanks)

Cheers,
Andy

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:56 am I has to be a 3 port valve. [...] So it has 3 positions.

I agree... if it's playable as Bb/C/F. It's just that I don't see any indication from his playing in the video that it is.

I'm guessing that the concept is 'normal Bb/F instrument with the feel of the other travel instruments in the family'. The whole tone loop on this version isn't tuneable (whereas of course it is on the simpler 'Yamaha' version) which also implies that it's hard-wired and the main tuning slide functions conventionally as the tuning for the Bb side.

Just my guess.