TromboneChat

After getting a Butler C10, I felt that the metal slides on my other horns were just too heavy. The lighter slide really makes a difference for me.

The Lawler I have has been a bit of a conundrum in that I love the sound and the way it plays but holding it causes shoulder pain. No other horn I have causes the same problem, even if they are heavier. One option was to consider purchasing a Butler .508 bore horn but that’s expensive and living in Sweden doesn’t afford much opportunity to try one out.

Getting a cf slide for the Lawler is much less expensive and he sets it up so you can use the original slide (nickel in this case) or the cf slide. So I decided to try that option first. After waiting for a month (USPS ain’t what it used to be) for my slide to arrive at Mr. Lawler’s shop, he turned it around in a week and then it took two weeks to travel back (thanks to Swedish customs for holding the slides for eight days).

The results? Well, as expected, the cf slide moves effortlessly and very smoothly, so much so that putting the nickel back on feels like lead. Now I know some of you might be wondering how it affects the sound and that was of great concern to me as well. I haven’t yet played for anyone else so these impressions are mine alone. The cf sound is less edgy or perhaps mellowed as compared to the nickel. The cf also felt a little more stuffy so I put the larger lead pipe in and took a DE D+ mouthpiece and that felt much better. Slotting and the high register are very easy with the cf and I’ll probably not use the nickel slide again, which is a shame because it’s a beautiful piece of work.

What about my shoulder? The cf slide balances better but after playing for an hour or so, my shoulder flared up again. There seems to be something about having weight on my thumb because I don’t have the same problem when holding a horn with a trigger, even if it’s heavier. I tried an Ax Handle brace which is a nice piece of craftsmanship but I couldn’t find a position that helped. Finally, I resorted to the Neo-Tech hand brace (or grip) and that solved the problem. Because I like the aesthetic of the simple straight trombone, I was loathe to use the Neo-Tech but it makes a world of difference. Now I can play the Lawler with a more relaxed left hand and after some simple exercises, go to bed pain free.

The lighter weight slide is really an improvement for me on both my large bore, and small bore horns, especially as I’m not getting any younger. Thanks to Roy Lawler and Dave Butler for their fine craftsmanship and I like having a blend of more the traditional (Lawler bell) with more modern slide. It’s also nice to know that these parts came from small businesses run by helpful people.

Dave Butler does great work. I love the slide on my .508 "JJ" build. The CF horn is so light and well-balanced, it just disappears from conscious thought and I can focus on making music. My C10 is on order, and I can't wait to get some face time with it!

I've never played a Lawler, but I've heard fantastic things. Before my Butler .508 arrived, I picked up an Elkhart 6h to see how the CF slide and brass bell combo felt, since the 6h receiver is compatible with the slide tenons Butler uses. The CF slide is soooo much lighter than the 6h's, I found the combination to be a bit unbalanced toward the back and left of center. For me, the full CF setup was best, but I'm glad you found a setup that works for you.

muschem wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:45 am Dave Butler does great work. I love the slide on my .508 "JJ" build. The CF horn is so light and well-balanced, it just disappears from conscious thought and I can focus on making music. My C10 is on order, and I can't wait to get some face time with it!

I've never played a Lawler, but I've heard fantastic things. Before my Butler .508 arrived, I picked up an Elkhart 6h to see how the CF slide and brass bell combo felt, since the 6h receiver is compatible with the slide tenons Butler uses. The CF slide is soooo much lighter than the 6h's, I found the combination to be a bit unbalanced toward the back and left of center. For me, the full CF setup was best, but I'm glad you found a setup that works for you.

That ease of playing such a light horn is what keeps me interested in a Butler JJ, I just would like to try one before investing. If the JJ is as good as the C10, I’ll be getting one and will probably let the Lawler go, sadly.

The C10 is a great instrument. The valve register is really open and the high range is quite easy. Things like a Telemann Flute Fantasie are much easier and I feel it’s possible to be more expressive and subtle. One might wonder, as I have, how the C10 would blend with other trombones. Two weeks ago, the Swedish Military Band came to our school and did a workshop and concert. The workshop was for the students but we sat in and I played with two of their fine trombonists both using Bach 42’s. When things got loud, I felt like I could keep up and blend fairly well. Because I don’t do much of that really loud playing, I was pleasantly surprised.

Finding a JJ model to try may be challenging. I don't get the impression that there are many floating around. Mine was delivered last month, and it is only serial number 23. There was one posted for sale a few months back on this forum, but I haven't seen too many hit the used market. I think the barrier/reluctance for many is the difference in sound behind the bell. I had some concern initially that it might bother me, but in practice, I don't find that it does. I should say that as a come-back player, I'm not on the level of many who would consider the CF option, so take my experience with a grain of salt. That said, if you already have a C10 and the slightly reduced feedback (compared with a metal bell) doesn't bother you, I'd imagine you'll probably find the smaller bore options every bit as fun to play.

The weight (or lack thereof) was so surprising the first time I picked it up, and it continues to bring a smile to my face every time I reach for it. I was a initially a bit worried about disturbing the balance with the screw bell option, but the Delrin material is so light that it remains perfectly balanced (I'm sure aluminum would have also been a fine option). The light weight belies a full and powerful sound, though.

Thanks for sharing your experience with section blend on the C10 - that was something I had also wondered. Once my C10 build is complete, I doubt I'll ever buy another tenor.