Bass Trombones that deal best with a smaller mouthpiece

[BassboneJ25]

Hey Y’all!

I’m generally curious about what all of you think bass bones that like to pair with smaller mouthpieces (1.5G, 2G sized mouthpieces).

Can’t wait for your responses!

[Matt K]

My Duo Gravis played very well with a Mt. Vernon 2G I was playing at the time. Its an underrated size in my opinion, although I don't generally play anything exactly of that size at the moment. 1.5G is, of course, possibly underrated despite being exceptionally popular. IIRC, Chris Stearn (Forum name used to be blast, new name is FOSSIL, but he hasn't logged in in awhile) is on a 2G on his Conns now.

That said, if you like the size you can make it work on just about anything... with the right amount of time, of course. Boils down to what type of sound you're going for, what music you are playing etc. Jim Nova did those amazing Star Wars overdubs on a piece with a 3G rim (all parts from soprano to contra), after all. That said, you are on the "smaller" side of what people generally play now, so you are probably also after a "smaller", "lighter" horn most likely. Some vintage horns that might fit that sound concept have been out of production for some time, but might be fun to acquire. Those could be the Duo Gravis as mentioned before, the Bach 45, any number of Conns from the 50s-70s. Or more contemporary horns. I had a really nice 9" Holton bell on my bass with a 547/562 slide at one point that I didn't use very much but at some point would lke to pick up something in that ballpark.

[Posaunus]

I’m generally curious about what all of you think bass bones that like to pair with smaller mouthpieces (1.5G, 2G sized mouthpieces).

How about your own 1952 Conn 70H TIS? Great match for a "smaller" mouthpiece (like a Conn 3B Connstellation, which has the appropriate "Remington" taper).

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

When I had my 70H Fuchs, it felt really good with my Conn 3B Connstellation.

[BassboneJ25]

For sure I guess to take out the ambiguity out of the post, I play on 27mm and below rims. My sound and range is best made with “smaller” mouthpieces. Also just recently acquired a bass bone through trade and it sounds really good with my Mercer and Barker 1.5 so I was wondering if there any specific/general characteristics that would make a horn like smaller mouthpieces.


I have read, on here,a lot about old Elkhart conn’s singing the best with smaller mouthpieces but was wondering if any other brands tended to be the same.

[blast]

My Duo Gravis played very well with a Mt. Vernon 2G I was playing at the time. Its an underrated size in my opinion, although I don't generally play anything exactly of that size at the moment. 1.5G is, of course, possibly underrated despite being exceptionally popular. IIRC, Chris Stearn (Forum name used to be blast, new name is FOSSIL, but he hasn't logged in in awhile) is on a 2G on his Conns now.

That said, if you like the size you can make it work on just about anything... with the right amount of time, of course. Boils down to what type of sound you're going for, what music you are playing etc. Jim Nova did those amazing Star Wars overdubs on a piece with a 3G rim (all parts from soprano to contra), after all. That said, you are on the "smaller" side of what people generally play now, so you are probably also after a "smaller", "lighter" horn most likely. Some vintage horns that might fit that sound concept have been out of production for some time, but might be fun to acquire. Those could be the Duo Gravis as mentioned before, the Bach 45, any number of Conns from the 50s-70s. Or more contemporary horns. I had a really nice 9" Holton bell on my bass with a 547/562 slide at one point that I didn't use very much but at some point would lke to pick up something in that ballpark.

The forum seemed to stop me using FOSSIL and I have been back to blast for a while. I had to give up on the MV 2G for various reasons and am back on my MV 1 1/2G. Mostly on Conns, but also Raths and I've got the Symingtons on the mouthpiece front. It's easier to say which trombones don't work with smaller mouthpieces...modern Yamahas ...most other things work.
Chris

[Pezza]

I have a King 5B that I use a 2Gish mouthpiece in.

[GabrielRice]

Last semester I had not one but two students playing 2Gs - a Bach and a Greg Black Premru copy - on double Thayer Edwards basses. They work.

[Mamaposaune]

The Conn 72H works with smaller mouthpieces. When I was in college, I used one for everything, plugging in a 5G when playing tenor. (which was all the time, except for jazz band where I used a 2G or 3G since I played the bass part)

[RConrad]

I use a Bach 2G with my Blessing B98 for the most part. Since I don't have a large bore tenor yet though (gonna be looking for one in a few months) and I sometimes get the second or third part I switch to a Schilke 57. The Rath bass I used to play did not like a small mouthpiece though and I had better luck with a DW 1AL or a Hammond 20BL.

[imsevimse]

I agree the Duo Gravis works with a 2G. I also noticed my
.536 bore double valve Martin likes the 2G. Since I mostly play bass trombone in big bands I've noticed a small mouthpie can save an oversized bass trombone. I often bring my 9" and 9 1/2" basses to rehearsals and they fir with 1 3/4 sizes. I usually bring those and avoid the larger bells like the 10'. To me they play to big with the 1 3/4 but I've noticed that a 2G can shrink the sound to fit the small tenors in the section so to make them an alternative.

/Tom

[Burgerbob]

It's easier to say which trombones don't work with smaller mouthpieces...modern Yamahas ...most other things work.
Chris

This is the best way to put it. I haven't had any horns (modern or otherwise) for a while that didn't play very well with the Yamaha 58 I keep around. The Yamaha 822 is the standout that really, really didn't like being played with a 1 1/2G, I agree.

[Tbarh]

I havet tried much, but my Holton 185 seems to want smaller mouthpieces.. Too big and it gets a bit wooly/woofy. 70H (non Fuchs) needs smaller pieces to really sing.. The Big dual bore Shires i used to own needed a big piece..

[Savio]

I have not tried so many trombones but it works great in all I have played. I believe it's like Matt told. It will work in almost all trombones. Chris probably have tried a lot, so he knows. It works nice in all the old conn i play. Also my new Yamaha 620g. But that one is different from the newer Yamaha that Mr. Yeo developed with Yamaha. They even call my Yamaha an intermediate trombone but it works very nice in my opinion. I use a 1 1/2g. Anyway happy blowing!
Leif

[SwissTbone]

I play all my bass trombones on 1 1/2G sized pieces. Symington 1 1/2G those last months. That's considered a small size by many now, but I can't go much bigger.

I have yet to find a bass trombone that doesn't work well with that size. Conn 70h, 62h, Bach 50, Edwards, Shires... etc. all of them work for me with that size. Is it the horn or me? I don't know.

One could think a particularly big bass trombone could not fit a "small" mouthpiece. My daily driver is a Hagmann custom with an Edwards .562/578 slide and independent progressive bore Hagmann valves. So I think a pretty big horn. It works particularly well with the 1 1/2G.

[Burgerbob]

I havet tried much, but my Holton 185 seems to want smaller mouthpieces.. Too big and it gets a bit wooly/woofy. 70H (non Fuchs) needs smaller pieces to really sing.. The Big dual bore Shires i used to own needed a big piece..

My 185 is picky, but it works with the Laskey 90D I am using it on it currently. If I go deeper (not necessarily larger in the rim), it goes out of tune and is difficult to play. The Yeo, GB 1GS, and 90D all seem to work pretty well.

[Matt K]

The forum seemed to stop me using FOSSIL and I have been back to blast for a while. I had to give up on the MV 2G for various reasons and am back on my MV 1 1/2G. Mostly on Conns, but also Raths and I've got the Symingtons on the mouthpiece front. It's easier to say which trombones don't work with smaller mouthpieces...modern Yamahas ...most other things work.
Chris

I Knew I had heard from you since then! Unfortunately, "blast" has been used in other cotnexts on the site so t comes up as things other than you

I'm also wondering if models other than the 822 are giving people a hard time. When I first started playing bass I initially just used my large bore tenor piece... whatever I was using at the time. Something 5Gish. Then later an XT104N/XTC/C8 on the YBL622, which was the original Doug Yeo signature model. I think I played that setup for a semester until I was able to make it back out to Dougs that summer and got a EUPH104N/K/K8 that I played bass on for several years - until I acquired that Mt. Vernon 2G and then now one of his 114/L/L9. At any rate, the 622 seemed to be fine for at least the commercial style playing I was doing on even a comically shallow mouthpiece. I certainly wouldn't want to do classical playing on something that shallow though, nor did I at the time.

Now I'm curious... maybe I should get the GB 2G I have out and see how it works with my Yamaha large bore. I think its a YSL548GOAL or something.

[Rusty]

When I had a Yamaha 620g it played much better with something 1.5-2G sized. My Doug Yeo 822 did better with a bigger mouthpiece, but was designed with his requirements in mind with his signature mouthpiece so that’s not surprising.

My Conn 62h plays well with a 2G sized piece and unlocks an even more compact and singing tone.

[MrHCinDE]

I had a Reynolds Contempora Stereophonic for about 10 years which I always felt worked better with a smaller (shallower) mouthpiece for me. My preference for most of the big band and concert band playing I did on it was the Marcinkiewicz EBT3. Also fine with a 2G or 1.5G sized piece but preferably nothing too deep.

My Yamaha 612Rii seems less sensitive to a deeper cup so I could use one with it but I find it to be fine with a 2G or 1.5G sized piece also.

[WGWTR180]

I too will echo that the modern Yamaha bass trombones that don't work(for me) with my MV 1 and 1/2G. I've also been told by another 1 and 1/2G player that Shires Basses don't work for him. I've never had enough time on a Shires to make that decision. I taught a lesson once to a Grad student who used a 1 and 1/2G on his dependent axial Edwards bass and he sounded great! Several years ago I heard one of FOSSIL's students play on a modern instrument(Courtois maybe??) with a 2G and he sounded great! A lot has to do with sound expectations. Are you getting what you want with what you have? Is it the player, the approach, or the equipment???

[sirisobhakya]

One more vote for “Xeno Yamahas don’t like smaller mouthpiece”. I have tried a Yamaha 59L, 60BL, and Doug Yeo Signeture on my YBL-830, and the Yeo, despite being the largest and deepest, has the most brilliance and nicest timbre of all. The reverse is true, however, with a YBL-612.

[MTbassbone]

Another vote for larger mouthpieces on the YBL-830. As of right now I am playing around with a DE 112 J J8, Greg Black 1 1/4 .312 #2, and a Griego 1.25. I would like to try one to two sizes larger for each of those to see what sounds good, and still sounds like a trombone. I really like the 830 though.

[timbone]

I use a 2G on my 70H and it is a perfect match. I also had the fortune to play a gig with Robert Hughes who played a 2G with his 62H. not much more to say about that! His sound was a masterclass!

[contemporacorner]

Another vote for the Reynolds Contempora and smaller mouthpieces. I've had good luck with a Schilke 58 and Wick 1AL. (didn't we do this thread before on the old forum?)

[heldenbone]

Getzen 1062 plays well for me with either a Corp. Bach 2G or a brass Symington 2. I'm really enjoying the Symington piece. It has made most things easier without any discernable cost in some other area.

[Kevbach33]

My own bass seems like it could do fine with small or big pieces. I can't say I've played anything bigger than a Schilke 58 (current go to) in it, and the Wick 1AL it came with is also a good match. Neither is small nor huge, though.

A Holton 181 my high school has played better in tune with a Schilke 59 than the 60 it came with. It could have been better with a 58, maybe. Not that the 60 didn't work, since it did, and those were my peak playing days. But now I wonder how a 2G would sound in it...

Same school has a Conn 71H, and it really came to life with a non-Connstellation 3B piece. It was so much clearer in tone than what I could manage with a 59 that was in its case during my time there. A big revelation for me, as far as the sound it could produce.

So, it seems like Holton basses can work with many sizes, but perhaps best with smaller to medium depths; Conn 7xH basses are best with smaller; and modern basses seem dependent on other design factors as to what mouthpiece will work best.

Grain of salt, $.02, varying mileage, etc.

[mahlertwo]

My Duo Gravis played very well with a Mt. Vernon 2G I was playing at the time. Its an underrated size in my opinion, although I don't generally play anything exactly of that size at the moment. 1.5G is, of course, possibly underrated despite being exceptionally popular. IIRC, Chris Stearn (Forum name used to be blast, new name is FOSSIL, but he hasn't logged in in awhile) is on a 2G on his Conns now.

That said, if you like the size you can make it work on just about anything... with the right amount of time, of course. Boils down to what type of sound you're going for, what music you are playing etc. Jim Nova did those amazing Star Wars overdubs on a piece with a 3G rim (all parts from soprano to contra), after all. That said, you are on the "smaller" side of what people generally play now, so you are probably also after a "smaller", "lighter" horn most likely. Some vintage horns that might fit that sound concept have been out of production for some time, but might be fun to acquire. Those could be the Duo Gravis as mentioned before, the Bach 45, any number of Conns from the 50s-70s. Or more contemporary horns. I had a really nice 9" Holton bell on my bass with a 547/562 slide at one point that I didn't use very much but at some point would lke to pick up something in that ballpark.

The forum seemed to stop me using FOSSIL and I have been back to blast for a while. I had to give up on the MV 2G for various reasons and am back on my MV 1 1/2G. Mostly on Conns, but also Raths and I've got the Symingtons on the mouthpiece front. It's easier to say which trombones don't work with smaller mouthpieces...modern Yamahas ...most other things work.
Chris

What's your cutoff for modern? My 613H pairs fantastically with my Marcinkiewicz 1.5G. For me, at least.

[blast]

The forum seemed to stop me using FOSSIL and I have been back to blast for a while. I had to give up on the MV 2G for various reasons and am back on my MV 1 1/2G. Mostly on Conns, but also Raths and I've got the Symingtons on the mouthpiece front. It's easier to say which trombones don't work with smaller mouthpieces...modern Yamahas ...most other things work.
Chris

What's your cutoff for modern? My 613H pairs fantastically with my Marcinkiewicz 1.5G. For me, at least.

622 onwards.

[Posaunus]

Conn 71H ... really came to life with a non-Connstellation 3B piece. It was so much clearer in tone than what I could manage with a 59 that was in its case during my time there. A big revelation for me, as far as the sound it could produce.

I presume you meant that the Conn 71H came to life with a Conn Connstellation 3B mouthpiece; mine certainly did. Highly recommended!

Compared to a typical Bach 1½G, my Connstellation 3B (27.10 mm Cup I.D.; 7.49mm Throat) has larger throat and a deeper cup. Another obvious advantage is that the Conn mouthpiece fits better in the trombone's "Remington" receiver. My alternate mouthpiece for the 71H is a Schilke 58 with a Remington shank (thanks to Graham Middleton at Marcinkiewicz); it also plays well.

[Kevbach33]

Conn 71H ... really came to life with a non-Connstellation 3B piece. It was so much clearer in tone than what I could manage with a 59 that was in its case during my time there. A big revelation for me, as far as the sound it could produce.

I presume you meant that the Conn 71H came to life with a Conn Connstellation 3B mouthpiece; mine certainly did. Highly recommended!

Compared to a typical Bach 1½G, my Connstellation 3B (27.10 mm Cup I.D.; 7.49mm Throat) has larger throat and a deeper cup. Another obvious advantage is that the Conn mouthpiece fits better in the trombone's "Remington" receiver. My alternate mouthpiece for the 71H is a Schilke 58 with a Remington shank (thanks to Graham Middleton at Marcinkiewicz); it also plays well.

Here I present a Conn 3B that is NOT a Constellation next to a Holton 89... I hope...

IMG_20191125_234509278.jpg

IMG_20191125_234534337.jpg

The 59 that was with the 71H did have the long shank, so that did help.

[Posaunus]

Here I present a Conn 3B that is NOT a Constellation next to a Holton 89... I hope...

Kev,

NOW I understand what you meant. I did not know that Conn produced a "non-Connstellation" 3B mouthpiece. I've never seen one. But my Connstellation 3B is a perfect match for my Conn 71H bass trombone!

I wonder what's the difference between the two? [My Connstellation 3B is lightly gold-plated.]

I have a Blessing 3B that looks like the Conn 3B but is MUCH smaller - more like a Bach 6½AM but with deeper, more V-shaped cup & smaller throat (~25.50mm Cup I.D., 6.15mm Throat).

[Splendour]

A Holton 181 my high school has played better in tune with a Schilke 59 than the 60 it came with. It could have been better with a 58, maybe. Not that the 60 didn't work, since it did, and those were my peak playing days. But now I wonder how a 2G would sound in it...

I played my Holton 181 for over a decade with a JK 2AL. It gave me all the power and cutting edge I wanted in a brass band, and let me blend well with the tenor trombones when I was with them.

[sf105]

Every time I take out my Holton 185 with my Symington 2 people seem to like it -- even Bill. Bill also once lent me a 1 1/2G with a Brown and Sharp shank that opened up my 70H. Should never have let it go (and he only made the one).

Some of my older horns need a bit of plumber's tape for the 2G to sit properly.

[CarlVicVogel]

My Holton TR-181 works best with a 1 1/2G Bach. It allows me flexibility to play up and down the scale while retaining an edge to the red brass 10" bell that got lost when I went to a larger mouthpiece to demo. Part of it is related to my embouchure.

Your mileage may vary.

Carl