TromboneChat

So last week I filled in for a local college band - 2 rehearsals and a show for $300. In the recent past, that would have been an easy thing to do. They write you a check for $300 and and the and of the year they send a 1099-MISC. Now this school is making me fill out all the paperwork as if I was becoming a full time employee. W-4, I-9 and several other forms, just to get $300. This is the second school that has done this to me lately. Is there some new IRS rule that keeps schools from using 1099s?

Probably just a change in accounting policy. I used to work procurement for a large-ish state university that made everyone go through the process fo rany amount because it was easier to have one process rather than two and the amount of of sub $500 transactions for external vendors was pretty small.

Most of my similar gigs have been like that for the last couple years.

Same thing for me too at many of my college ringer gigs.

Interestingly (or not?), I have the same situation with some church gigs in Switzerland. Having me fill out full employment forms, including my wife's details and tax information, just for a single Sunday morning service. Not sure how it makes anybody's life easier!

My limited, non-expert understanding of issues like this is that 1099s are fine for paying contractors, but if you're doing work that has to be done in a certain place at a certain time then you're an employee and not a contractor. (I was involved with a non-profit softball league and a few years ago we were given tax advice that we were obligated to switch to paying our teenage umpires as employees rather than as contractors.) I think over the last 20+ years a lot of companies in a lot of industries have felt pressure to stop paying people as contractors. (Microsoft was successfully sued for benefits by 10,000 former workers after the IRS ruled they had been misclassified as contractors.)

The first half of my 35 year college teaching career I was able to get checks for visiting clinicians and guest soloists in advance, have them sign a form and present them with a check at the end of their duties. Eventually that became harder and harder to do, then impossible. When I retired guest soloists, clinicians and adjudicators had to provide the University with proof of insurance before they could come to an event on campus. Lawyers… Also in CA the State Legislature passed a law making everyone employees. No independent contractors. It was directed against Uber types but ended up catching all kinds of people, including musicians. Hence the W2s. I think that has been repealed for musicians now.

Hey Dave, nice to see you here.

Damn, that sucks! I wouldn't be surprised if in a year or two, if you never work for that university again they will terminate you too. Which means if they hire you again, the paperwork would have to be filled out once again.

I work for the athletics department at DePaul University (Chicago) and when we hire ringers we just have them fill out a w9 and then process payment at the end of the pay period. If they are a ringer, but are a student that's currently enrolled in classes, then we would have to go through the student employment process. It can be a real PITA, especially when you know they're only going to play one week's worth of gigs.

And in an effort to clean up how many people are on payroll they terminate all employees that haven't been paid over a 12 month span. So the process begins all over again the following year when I'm looking for ringers to travel with for the BIG EAST, NCAA, and/or NIT tournaments.

Almost a month and I still haven’t gotten paid for this gig,

Bummer. I wouldn't take any more jobs there

Unfortunately, these situations are brought on by something getting "tweaked" in the tax code. There are similar issues here in Canada too. Some bureaucrat decides that this way will be "simpler" at their end. The Universities and other organizations that are doing this don't want it either - it costs them more money in man-hours, and adds extra paperwork for them. If they don't follow these procedures, however, the University will be in trouble. You have to factor in the added hassle and delayed payment to the equation as to whether or not you take the gig. It sucks, but the only way to change it is to change whatever regulation is in play - good luck finding anyone in government who is concerned that a trombone player waited 2 months to get paid! To be fair, it is a "first-world" problem compared to so much of what's happening in the world these days.

Jim Scott

with college paychecks i just assume nothing will come in for a minimum of 6 weeks. i usually budget those checks for stuff 3 months in the future. even then sometimes they haven't come in, and this is going on 15 years or working with universities.

With churches, probably want to get the money before playing!

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:26 am With churches, probably want to get the money before playing!

I have never had a problem getting paid by a church.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:26 am With churches, probably want to get the money before playing!

Why?

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 am

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:26 am With churches, probably want to get the money before playing!

Why?

I had an experience where a church asked me to play for Easter and they asked if I would consider the fee a donation.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 6:40 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 am
Why?

I had an experience where a church asked me to play for Easter and they asked if I would consider the fee a donation.

Before you played or after?

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:00 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 6:40 am

I had an experience where a church asked me to play for Easter and they asked if I would consider the fee a donation.

Before you played or after?

After Note that I used to tell churches that I will play one service for free per year, but not Christmas or Easter. One used to have my quintet play the last Sunday in Advent. Never had a problem with a Catholic church, btw.

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 am

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:26 am With churches, probably want to get the money before playing!

Why?

It is not unusual to have them "renegotiate" the fee based on what the collection plate brought in, or even promise to mail you a check but wait for you to remind them three times before actually doing it.

Not all churches of course but a fair number of the smaller ones.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:47 pmNot all churches of course but a fair number of the smaller ones.

Big churches can be a problem, too. Here's a rather extreme example:
https://www.ocregister.com/2010/05/09/m ... cathedral/
I think the creditors eventually got paid, but it took a while.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 3:03 pm Big churches can be a problem, too. Here's a rather extreme example:
https://www.ocregister.com/2010/05/09/m ... cathedral/
I think the creditors eventually got paid, but it took a while.

There's no business like soul business.

Somehow even the Schullers ended up claiming their church owed them money.

Most of the churches here don't ever hire professional musicians. Once, when I was hired for a surprisingly decent-paying Easter gig (not great, but OK pay) I got a call a few days before with the details for the rehearsal (that had never been part of the original call). The extra service tacked on, put it at somewhere less than "trust-fund) scale.

Completely different situation when I lived in NYC, or a few times more recently when I was back visiting. Nearly every good brass player is working, at a decent rate. Oh well!

Jim Scott

Interesting comments here. I've always been paid by every church I've ever worked in.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:36 pm

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:00 pm

Before you played or after?

Never had a problem with a Catholic church, btw.

Come to think about it, yes. I agree, Catholics paid well with no issues.

I kinda forgot about this post. I finally got the check from that college about 10 weeks after I played the gig. Their official excuse was that somebody who had to approve the paperwork had never gotten around to doing so.

So professional