TromboneChat

I've been curious about dual bore horns under 525 recently. The BAC Eliot Mason (Chinese version) was on my list, but I could not get one economically.

This all started with the ysl350c that I bought to use as a small bass template. The horn was a little weird, and didn't play the way I hoped, mostly because you're blowing through the valve all the time. So that killed the small bass project. However there was something almost there about the 350c,

So I bought a horn without the weird part - the ysl455g. It's a very nice horn, especially if you are a Yamaha fan, and especially if you want an all-rounder horn on the lighter side. But the 455 is ultimately a Yamaha. And while there's really not anything wrong with it, it didn't give me any reason to want to keep playing it.

The Olds Recording is a great instrument in any category. A little heavy, kind of small 8h-ish in its response. With a counterweight and the brace gussets, it's the most comfortable to hold horn I own, and simply addictive to play. It has the great warm sound of a larger horn, with the quick articulation of a smaller instrument. Good high range and solid low range. .

And then I keep going back and forth on the 32h. I wanna love the model but don't like the narrow slide. I recently bought another one. It plays great, but it seems like it is a good deal brighter than other 32h I've played. Great high range. Great soft control. I like the smaller bell.

So the order of my ranking for these horns is Recording, 32h, 455. The big surprise was that this 32h was brighter than others. The Recording is so warm, yet articulate and even comfortable. 32h is lacking that smoky, grainy character I remember in other examples, but maybe because the Recording has spoiled me. The 455 wants to be wonderful, but it's just too - perfectly bland.

Until, that is, I put the 455 slide on the 32h bell. That really did solve all the problems. The result adds personality the Yamaha lacks, and solves the narrow slide issue of the Conn. I played a quintet rehearsal on this Mashup, and I'm really just blown away. The high range still smokes, and the low range feels more solid. It warms up the bell a bit. Articulations are easy, and lip slurs and trills are like I've been practicing like when I was in college again.

The 32h on its own is still kinda quirky, but it takes a stodgy Yamaha to really give it a purpose and solve the ergonomic problem of the slide. With all of the Yamaha slide compatibility options, there might be some other combos that work. This 32/455 kinda blew me away.

This combination is my new sub-525 go to axe. Really plays great.

Yamaha slides are really good. I have a Frankenstein Yamaha 525/547 right now that I’m using on my medium and large bore Shires that I’ve kept over a bunch of other slides. I almost didn’t want to sell my 356 slide for similar reasons but had to let it go to do a similar experiment that I hope turns out as well as the 356 I had.

The 32H has a pretty small tuning slide, right? ( Relative to other medium bores at least). I think part of what makes Yamaha medium bores the way they are, and why they worked for me, is the medium and large bores of the 3x,4x,5x, and 6xx series seem to share the same tuning slide. Combined with the often one piece unsoldered bells, they’re pretty “open” feeling but if you aren’t a bright player, could come off as dull.

I’m working on a similarish horn to that… 500/525 607F which has a smaller ish tuning slide rather than the larger one and a 3508Y bell if they’d ever stop being back ordered! I’m hoping the combo gives me what I liked about the 356 but with a little more ease of playing without being too bright.

How’s the intonation on the 455/32? I’ve had a few combos that I thought were going to be “the one” and it turned out the intonation was way too wonky. Shires 508/525 slide on a Mt Vernon Bach 9 bell was one of those… played awesome until I got the tuner out and it was practically at 435 or something. Boy it sure slotted like nobody’s business though!

Intonation in quintet last night was pretty good. I haven't done my usual partial testing with a tuner yet, but initial results look good. Intonation quirks are what soured me on the Courtois 402. Great instrument but weird tuning. I'll be back when I've had a look at 32/455 with the tuner.

I had a chance to look at the intonation today. Normally I play pretty high on the pitch (one of my quartet mates always says "better sharp than out of tune"), and typically my tuning slide is out about 2".But with this 32/455, the tuning slide is only out about 1/2" to put Bb in tune. High F has to get pulled out about 3/4" (less than my other horns) and high Bb has to get pulled out about 1.5" (usually none at all). High C is dead on. D has to be played in sharp 3rd, as usual.

I'm using a DE XT 104 E 4. I think that would be my desert island mouthpiece.

So it's not standard Conn tuning, but there are only a couple of notes that are different. It seems worth the hassle, though, as it's a great playing combination.

I played it against my 48h, and it's less bright, and more open, as you'd expect. The 79h just feels like home, and it's really the perfect instrument for just about anything. I think the 32/455 is what I wish the 78h were. I just can't make peace with the 78h - too much zingy edge at volume. The Recording has a very dark and covered sound, in comparison. And the 8h/525 just sounds like a great 8h - open and light with a broad range of sound you can coax out of it.

My problem is that I like all of these sounds, I feel picking just one would be limiting myself. But at the moment I like the 32/455 best.

Interesting. That sounds very similar to the results I had with a similar slide on similar bell but with Bach/Shires. I'm hoping this new experiment which is slightly more similar slide/bell gives me the same feel but closer to the intonation you described.

Remind me what your project is specifically? I tried to search it, but didn't find it. I know I've read about what you said you were working on, but can't remember the details.

No thread yet because parts are on backorder. But as soon as Crazy4Tbone86 get's a new inner/outer 606 from King, it'll be a 607F with a 500/525 slide and likely a Getzen 3508 bell. But similarly, that one is back ordered. The tuning slide for the 607F and 3B+ is actually the same as the 3B unlike the Yamahas and most other medium bores, where the tuning slide is typically the same as their large bores. I think that's what contributes to medium bores either being a "big, small-horn" or a "small, big-horn". I'm thinking the smaller tuning slide will make it more of a "small" horn with a bigger blow to it rather than feel like a large bore like the Shires and Yamahas I've historically played. Also hopefully, it won't have some of the wonky intonation that I've experienced in trying to put bigger slides on small bell sections. Since it sounds like your 455/32 combo may also not have as much quirky intonation... it gives me hope that will be the case!

Oh, yeah, that sounds like fun. If you're looking for other bells, there's a guy with a pile of 8" Martin bells on eBay for relatively cheap, and readily available. He says they went on 525 Martins and tend to darken the sound. From all the King stuff you're working with, you may want that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314129482477?h ... R8ayzdfjYA