TromboneChat

Hey!

So I have always had a poor left wrist because of a sports injury I suffered when I was younger. Now that I am practicing a lot more, I have developed a bit of tendinitis in my left wrist. I have tried all the grips and it has not made it better. I have a great trombone, in fact the trombone I always wanted, but it is just too heavy for me and I can't seem to get around the wrist pain. I want to be able to play for the rest of my life both professionally and recreationally. I was checking to see if y'all had any ideas on lighter-weight bass trombones?

Thanks!

Have you tried ergobone yet? I use mine for contra and for long gigs or tiredness. It'll take all the weight off.

Edit:

I just saw you have a 70H. Is it modified? The problem may not be the weight but the distribution of it. I can't personally play a 70H for more than a few minutes without my wrist starting to twist off, since they are so front-heavy. You may consider some sort of counterweight.

Carbon fiber is probably the best bet for weight reduction. I haven’t tried Butler’s bass, but the small and large tenors are amazingly light and fun to play:

https://butlertrombones.com

What are you playing now? There are some great classic single valve basses out there!

Also Lätzsch makes a very light double valve bass trombone.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:59 am Have you tried ergobone yet? I use mine for contra and for long gigs or tiredness. It'll take all the weight off.

Edit:

I just saw you have a 70H. Is it modified? The problem may not be the weight but the distribution of it. I can't personally play a 70H for more than a few minutes without my wrist starting to twist off, since they are so front-heavy. You may consider some sort of counterweight.

I have not tried an Ergobone… the 70H has been gone for a little bit. I totally forgot that I had that in my profile. It has been updated now!

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:13 pm What are you playing now? There are some great classic single valve basses out there!

Also Lätzsch makes a very light double valve bass trombone.

I play on an M&W 929-T. They are great and beautiful. I love single valves. I do think they have their place, but for the more modern music I think having the double valve option is more what I’m looking for!

BassboneJ25 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:28 pm

I have not tried an Ergobone… the 70H has been gone for a little bit. I totally forgot that I had that in my profile. It has been updated now!

I'd give Ergobone a shot. It's much cheaper than a new horn and I think it'll make a big difference for you.

I personally can't recommend carbon fiber myself, having played a few parts and having owned a slide for a while... it's too large a tradeoff in sound, but of course I can't speak for you.

BassboneJ25 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:33 pm

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:13 pm What are you playing now? There are some great classic single valve basses out there!

Also Lätzsch makes a very light double valve bass trombone.

I play on an M&W 929-T. They are great and beautiful. I love single valves. I do think they have their place, but for the more modern music I think having the double valve option is more what I’m looking for!

If you really want a double valve, maybe you should try the carbon bells and slides. I'm thinking about it myself. Maybe not exclusively, but I could imagine using them on long rehearsals or practice sessions.

When you say you've tried all the grips, have you tried the simple strap from Leather Specialties or Yamaha?

I have tendinitis in my left wrist as well - mostly just from playing the bass trombone - and the advantage for me of the strap over everything else I've tried is that I can position it to keep my wrist completely straight. I can't do that with a Sheridan Get-a-Grip or the NeoTech grip.

And there are things Matt can do for your M&W. You might be surprised how much weight comes off if you make the valve section with shorter tuning slides and therefore much less overlapping tubing.

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:07 pm When you say you've tried all the grips, have you tried the simple strap from Leather Specialties or Yamaha?

I have tendinitis in my left wrist as well - mostly just from playing the bass trombone - and the advantage for me of the strap over everything else I've tried is that I can position it to keep my wrist completely straight. I can't do that with a Sheridan Get-a-Grip or the NeoTech grip.

My GAG doesn’t work especially well for me but the similar grip made by Jonathan Pippen works perfectly on my 290.

I've had a Butler Carbon Fibre C-12 Bass for a couple of years now. There IS a difference in the sound compared to a normal brass horn, but not so much as to be a deal-breaker. I think that the more complex sound of a bass trombone doesn't translate to carbon fibre as well as a tenor does. The mid to high register is intense but the lowest register struggles to match that characteristic. It responds very well to "tweaks" --- leadpipes, mouthpiece choice, Lexan valve caps, etc. It weighs 4 pounds with a double valve, the same as a single valve Conn 88H. So far as comparable "lightweights" are concerned I've heard that the Schagerl "Aurora" double valve bass weighs 4.5 pounds but have never been able to verify that specification. I use a Greenhoe thumb rest and a NeoTech grip combined that allows the horn to almost float in your hand. I use an ErgoBone for my older, heavier horns but the C-12 is definitely a game-changer ! It most certainly would add years to a player's career, but it's not for everyone. YMMV.

I've had to downsize for medical reasons.
I now use a King 5B for bass. Some people say it's a tenor, but for me it works as a bass & not as a tenor.

Th ErgoBone saved my bass playing… it is your answer.

Sorry for the double post -- I had to. The lightest bas, a dual plug indie 36B::

I started with a Butler CF outer slide and liked it so much in terms of speed and weight reduction I ordered a bell flare. It's mounted on my Bach 50B2O and it's a fantastic instrument. In the photo the Greenhoe rest bar can be seen but I removed it since I don't need it anymore. Great set up for someone with hand, wrist, shoulder issues or weekend warrior, long rehearsal situations.

muschem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:09 pm Carbon fiber is probably the best bet for weight reduction. I haven’t tried Butler’s bass, but the small and large tenors are amazingly light and fun to play:

https://butlertrombones.com

My bass is light and fun to play for certain. Even though it was a conversion of a stock Bach 50B2O and not built 100% by Butler, it has been a joy to use!

baBposaune wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:18 pm

muschem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:09 pm Carbon fiber is probably the best bet for weight reduction. I haven’t tried Butler’s bass, but the small and large tenors are amazingly light and fun to play:

https://butlertrombones.com

My bass is light and fun to play for certain. Even though it was a conversion of a stock Bach 50B2O and not built 100% by Butler, it has been a joy to use!

That's great to hear, because my Butler bass should be arriving tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it.

Did you have to wait for nearly a year from the time you ordered it?

baBposaune wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:11 pm Did you have to wait for nearly a year from the time you ordered it?

For my tenors, yes, around a year wait. My C10 would have done in closer to 8 months, but there was a problem at the plating company. I eventually decided to do without the bling, as supply chain issues made it difficult for them to even speculate on when their vat might be fixed.

For the bass, I got lucky and found one in stock at Dillon. They hadn’t even unboxed it. They are worth the wait, but even better without!

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:20 am Sorry for the double post -- I had to. The lightest bas, a dual plug indie 36B::

Now THIS is the content I'm here for!

Anyway, as to your original question.........

Holton Tr169 or Tr185 are according to one source lighter than an 88H.

Having owned and played both I wouldn't disagree .

If you need a double plug all the time , then ergo bone will be by far the cheapest way to go if you can get on with it.
Because I am carrying a few extra pounds shall we say..... I couldn't get in in the right spot but many have great sucess with it.

Good Luck

BellEnd

bellend wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:34 am ...
Because I am carrying a few extra pounds shall we say..... I couldn't get in in the right spot but many have great sucess with it.

Good Luck

BellEnd

If you have a few extra pounds as you say, you can use the full length post. It goes to the floor instead of just the harness or your seat. It works well, even for standing. A little awkward on the trombone stand, but it works.

bellend wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:34 am ...
Because I am carrying a few extra pounds shall we say..... I couldn't get in in the right spot but many have great sucess with it.

Good Luck

BellEnd

If you have a few extra pounds as you say, you can use the full length post. It goes to the floor instead of just the harness or your seat. It works well, even for standing. A little awkward on the trombone stand, but it works.

I also have a M+W 929 and agree it’s not lightweight. I use a Leather Specialties strap like Gabe Rice mentioned. For me it helps tremendously. I’m sure M. Walker would work with you to find solutions too.

On the completely different horn option…. I think the Yamaha 822 (Yeo/dep. model) is a good choice. I’ve always found them to be lighter, well-balanced, and ergonomically comfortable. Just my personal choice…YMMV.

I’d be interested to hear how things go for you. Hope you find a solution soon.

J

Sorry to hear you've got the wrist issue. I have ganglion cysts on both my wrists, but they exist within the bones of the wrist joint not on top like most cases so it's basically un-operable. Some days it's painful to flex wrist at all, and tensing it to hold trombone (also bass) prolongs the period before it calms down again.

I find the angle of my wrist seems to be critical on how it affects the pain, do play with a mostly straight wrist?

Hope you find a solution.

If you have a few extra pounds as you say, you can use the full length post. It goes to the floor instead of just the harness or your seat. It works well, even for standing. A little awkward on the trombone stand, but it works.

Thanks for the kind suggestion
I did try the full length post but sadly, that wasn't for me either.

BellEnd