TromboneChat

Which bass trombones seem to work with medium sized mouthpieces? 28.5 mm ish rim sizes with relatively shallow cups. Most of the basses I have tried recently seem to be happier with larger mouthpieces.

Do I get the context right? You have a specific mouthpiece and want a bass trombone for it ?? I am confused. Usually its the other way around ...

marccromme wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:40 am Do I get the context right? You have a specific mouthpiece and want a bass trombone for it ?? I am confused. Usually its the other way around ...

I have tried a number of bass trombones in the last year or so. They sound ok with my usual mouthpiece, but sound better with a larger mouthpiece. I don't like the efficiency of larger mouthpiece.

I found that my Reynolds Contempora worked well with smaller (shallower) mouthpieces. I wouldn’t exactly describe it as efficient though, it had a sound full of character but took a lot more effort (for me at least) to play than my present Yamaha 612Rii.

Did you try putting a small ring of tape on the shank? I know I've been going on about this lately, but it will completely change how the mouthpiece you like interacts with the horn you don't like. Specifically, you feel a bit more resistance and get more focus, projection. Only to a point - you're moving the insertion depth maybe 1/16th of an inch tops. Go too far and of course it will play terribly.

If your mouthpiece already has too much focus or resistance, then yeah, it won't work in that case either.

All the Kings I have owned have played well with smaller mouthpieces: 1480, 1485, 5B, 6B (Duo Gravis), and 7B.

marccromme wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:40 am Do I get the context right? You have a specific mouthpiece and want a bass trombone for it ?? I am confused. Usually its the other way around ...

Is it? Seems like when people try horns they put the piece in they're used to using?

OP if you have a bass you don't like you might want to consider yanking the pipe on it. Youc an probably find a pipe that works well with your mouthpiece and horn. That's sort of related to Harrison's advice. I suspect if he could (and wanted to) alter the pipe on his Army Yamaha, there might be a better fitting leadpipe that suits the mouthpiece, but in lieu of that adjusting the gap can change how a mouthpiece feels in a leadpipe which is all what one might need but it's less of a permanent fix.

I guarantee there is a better fitting leadpipe than that Yamaha one LOL.

You're totally right Matt about the leadpipe being key for how the mp interfaces and plays with the horn

Matt K wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:34 pm OP if you have a bass you don't like you might want to consider yanking the pipe on it. Youc an probably find a pipe that works well with your mouthpiece and horn. That's sort of related to Harrison's advice. I suspect if he could (and wanted to) alter the pipe on his Army Yamaha, there might be a better fitting leadpipe that suits the mouthpiece, but in lieu of that adjusting the gap can change how a mouthpiece feels in a leadpipe which is all what one might need but it's less of a permanent fix.

I am not super jazzed about trying to pull the leadpipe. I have always had unsoldered bells on my bass trombones, and this one is super soldered. I feel like that is the majority of the problem.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:51 pm I guarantee there is a better fitting leadpipe than that Yamaha one LOL.

You're totally right Matt about the leadpipe being key for how the mp interfaces and plays with the horn

I did try the tape on the mouthpiece. Not a massive change for me.

I liked this horn in the smaller rooms I played in, but the minute I started playing in larger rooms it felt really dead. I found I t really hard to blend with the tuba. I find the same issue with my YSL-882OR. They sound super clean, but not resonant.

For context I currently play either a Laskey 85MD or DE LB 113 J J8.

The horns I would like to try are:

Yamaha YBL-620G
Getzen 1052FD
Edwards Thayer or CR-E setup (probably at 1215CF bell)
K&H Orchestra (dependent or indy) or the 563
Greenhoe GC5
M&W 929

Maybe there are others, but these are on my radar.

The 830 definitely wants a smaller mouthpiece. Anything bigger and it gets even harder to play and less live. Been there, done that!

Most of the other modern stuff isn't too picky... horns designed around artists that play big stuff should probably be avoided to a point, but there are plenty of Edwards and Shires setups that are fine with even a 2G.

I do also have to say that much of that "dead" feeling can come from the player- I have had the same problems with any one of my instruments if I am playing a bit too wide and woofy at the chops. A small room will not tell you that is happening since you hear the sound right off the wall, but in a large room you lose the immediate echo of course.

Is it the YBL830 you have listed in your profile? I didn’t know yamaha did any soldered bells anymore if so. Regardless, in my experience, the leadpipe makes more of a difference than the soldered or unsoldered bell (all else being equal, which it seldom is). I’m in the fortunate position to have tried extremely similar bells on the same neckpipe to isolate that particular variable and how I react to it.

In any case, since you prefer unsoldered (and likely two piece) then yeah it might be reasonable to try to trade around for something more like that and with a removable pipe rather than taking the torch to it.

I play a similar Elliott usually and find that it works well with 1.5ish sized pipes for me (LB114/J/J8) on a variety of bells. I also switch to L/L10 occasionally and I also like that on 1.5 sized pipes so take that with a grain of salt. I’m on a type 7ish Shires bell. I also seem to like some of the better playing Bach 50 with that setup.

Sorry Harrison, I think I reported your post when I meant to quote it. Yes its the 830.

MTbassbone wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:12 pm Sorry Harrison, I think I reported your post when I meant to quote it. Yes its the 830.

No reports came through AFAIK. I wish it were easier to change the size of those buttons. I occasionally hit it on my phone.

Yeah the 830 and indeed many of the other Yamaha kind of have a bit of a feedback issue or something where they just don’t quite give me everything I’m wanting.

Since you’re relatively close to Doug, if you didn’t want to try horn surgery, maybe see if he can make a special shank for it? I don’t know how recent your J shank is but he has a new series (with an asterisk) that plays great. The J8* isn’t a massive improvement but I noticed a difference when I was comparing it to the old one.

Relatively close... like 5 minutes

MTbassbone wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:12 pm Sorry Harrison, I think I reported your post when I meant to quote it. Yes its the 830.

I thought better of posting it. It wasn't nice. That horn needs to have tape so it goes in .25" less. So much further out

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:53 pm Relatively close... like 5 minutes

I don't know Doug, Google says 6 min. Do you have a lead foot? LOL

Oh my, I just realized who MTbassbone is. How goes?

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:53 pm Relatively close... like 5 minutes

Absolutely close also means that it's relatively close too!

Matt K wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:25 pm Is it the YBL830 you have listed in your profile? I didn’t know yamaha did any soldered bells anymore if so.

The YBL830 an YBL613H both have soldered rim beads. I don't know if the 822G does.

The 612RII I have has an unsoldered bead, and the sound feedback I get from playing is definitely different than what I get from the 830. Just takes a bit of adjustment, and I can still enjoy playing both very much.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:18 pm The 830 definitely wants a smaller mouthpiece. Anything bigger and it gets even harder to play and less live. Been there, done that!

Most of the other modern stuff isn't too picky... horns designed around artists that play big stuff should probably be avoided to a point, but there are plenty of Edwards and Shires setups that are fine with even a 2G.

I do also have to say that much of that "dead" feeling can come from the player- I have had the same problems with any one of my instruments if I am playing a bit too wide and woofy at the chops. A small room will not tell you that is happening since you hear the sound right off the wall, but in a large room you lose the immediate echo of course.

hello!

I have a YAMAHA YBL-830, modified with a detach bell.

I have been using it for the last 6 years, with Orchestras, Wind Bands, etc. I am a freelance trombone player and I move around a lot.

I have to say, you are right Burgerbob, this trombone works wonderfully and like a real cannon with relatively small mouthpieces, similar to the 1½ and 1¼ bach.

I have tried mouthpieces of all kinds, me. I adapt well to all of them, but the trombone does not.

laskey 90 and 95, Schilke 60, Schilke m6.0 and many more...

In short, it is a trombone that for me has nothing to envy to other models and brands, but you have to play with the configuration that suits it.

if you have an 830 you have a treasure!