TromboneChat

Brad Close just finished this BBb contrabass sackbut for me. I will let him give you all the details and specifics but its based on the 1640 Oller BBb contrabass, made from sheet red brass... and it is quite incredible. We did a doubled up slide instead of the full length for playability. Brad never ceases to amaze me with his skills!

Awesome!

Beautiful as always!

I also love that your approach to the needed number of contra instruments is always N + 1.

Cheers,
Andy

V noice.

With the doubled slide, why the handle... just for 'that feel' ?

That is beautiful!!!!

BUT

If it is in BBb and has a double slide, why does it need a handle to reach the farthest slide positions?

Cheers

Stewbones43

ithinknot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:30 am V noice.

With the doubled slide, why the handle... just for 'that feel' ?

Simply put, because Noah wanted a handle. Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not? And I have to admit it is helpful. With the upper slide crook in there, you're already pretty far out in first, so it helps in reaching 7th without it being such a stretch. Also, with the inline slide tubes in the way, it wouldn't be as easy to get a good grip on the slide brace. And I'll let Noah answer this, but maybe partly just for the look.

Hey Brad, Freakin BEAUTIFUL Man!!!!!

The handle is there for aesthetics but it is also functional and allows for ease of reaching 7th position without stretching out and keeping the ergonomic balance of the horn. The narrow slide braces due to the inline tube construction also doesn't give much space to grip the slide so this setup works MUCH better (and it looks cool)

It has seven positions? I guess you had to shorten the bell section a bit compared to the original?

slipmo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:01 pm (and it looks cool)

that it do

Just curious... Does the water key on a double slide instrument work for both slides or is it customary to use two independent water keys.

--Andy in OKC

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:34 pm It has seven positions? I guess you had to shorten the bell section a bit compared to the original?

Yes, shorter than the original bell section, but I made it with a tuning slide, so actually could be just about any length. Can pull to 415 if desired. B natural is possible on this one.

A waterkey with 2 cups is often used, but I opted for 2 seperate keys with a tab coming off one key, so that both are opened by pressing only one. (Similar to how the old style double valve bass bones levers worked). That way a slight waterkey misalignment won't cause it to leak.

afugate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:13 pm Just curious... Does the water key on a double slide instrument work for both slides or is it customary to use two independent water keys.

--Andy in OKC

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:34 pm It has seven positions? I guess you had to shorten the bell section a bit compared to the original?

and believe it or not... but it fits in my brass bags bass sackbut case (just barely)

So here's a question..

How did this come to fruition? Made for a specific client? Or on a whim?

Would love to hear some sounds from it!!

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:12 pm So here's a question..

How did this come to fruition? Made for a specific client? Or on a whim?

Would love to hear some sounds from it!!

I commissioned it from Brad Hopefully using it on a project soon

Nice!

Great looking horn!

brassmedic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:59 pm ... Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not?

Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.

I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.

The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:13 pm Great looking horn!

brassmedic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:59 pm ... Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not?

Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.

I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.

The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm

I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:13 pm Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.

I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.

The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm

I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).

Yeah...

My point above is that smaller people might indeed need a handle for the slide that is the same length as a tenor slide... which might be the reason for the mentioned historical precedent of such things existing on tenor slides rather than a desire for superfluous complication and adornment.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:35 pm

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm

I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).

Yeah...

My point above is that smaller people might indeed need a handle for the slide that is the same length as a tenor slide... which might be the reason for the mentioned historical precedent of such things existing on tenor slides rather than a desire for superfluous complication and adornment.

Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing. There *might* be a few rare examples but they would be very much the exception, not the norm (I've definitely seen a few 19th-20th century German trombones modified to have a short handle, though). If people back then had systematically such shorter arms that they couldn't reach, one would expect either handles to be really common in both iconography and surviving instruments, or the trombone to have evolved as a higher pitched instrument (C) with a shorter slide to start with.

But of course, if someone shorter can't reach, then adding a handle makes sense, and of course that's the reason we do very occasionally see them.

Wow… I have seen the original single slide…Mindboggling

Tbarh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:57 am Wow… I have seen the original single slide…Mindboggling

The British used to refer to the G Bass trombone as a "Kid Shifter". A BBb would be monstrous!

I just played (or tried to...) the first Meinl copy of this Oller. The slide is indeed monstrous. It's almost five feet long, with the handle over a foot long, which makes playing the close positions rather difficult (or you grip further up the handle but then you have to find a way to slide your grip to the pommel for the long positions and back). Also makes for an interesting challenge emptying the slide (no waterkey!).

Wow. Two man effort to drain the slide. "Hans, come over here and take off the outer slide and empty it. Then put it back on."

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:32 am Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing.

You're arguing with the wrong person. The OP said there's a precedent for it. I'm merely offering a reason such a precedent case might have happened.

If you insist it never happened ever ever ever... complain to the OP.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:57 pm

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:32 am Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing.

You're arguing with the wrong person. The OP said there's a precedent for it. I'm merely offering a reason such a precedent case might have happened.

If you insist it never happened ever ever ever... complain to the OP.

I wasn't so much arguing as simply participating in the discussion and engaging with the point that was brought up. I guess that's rude to do on a discussion forum now

I didn't say Renaissance tenors had handles. The examples of tenor-length trombone slides that have handles are later than that.