TromboneChat

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:53 pm**

Been thinking a lot lately about what I'm trying to accomplish on the trombone and musically what I want that to turn into. And I'm curious where you are right now what you are trying to achieve it can be as simple as be better than yesterday or as complex as playing a certain piece with a certain group. I just think it will be a cool thread also would be interested in your current situation as a player and what impact that has on it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:55 pm**

play gooder

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:57 pm**

To get the ball rolling and answer my own question, I am a gigging trombonist in New Orleans and like everyone else have strengths and weaknesses but I'd say I do well at being able to hop into a variety of situations. My goal currently is to create more musically that I completely control this means getting more gigs with my quintet and composing more originals. In terms of on the trombone my current goal is to absorb more language so that I own it and can play more ideas with a lot of intent.

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:59 pm**

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:55 pmplay gooder

I dig it I think simplifying to just wanting to play better can be a good state of mind to be in.

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:07 pm**

DakoJack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:59 pm
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:55 pmplay gooder
I dig it I think simplifying to just wanting to play better can be a good state of mind to be in.

To be honest, I should have larger goals... but part of that doubling freelancer life is always scrambling to just stay solid for the next couple things. Not much time for much else, at least in my current situation.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:02 am**

I could boil it down to 3 topics:

1 Further extending/stabilizing my doubling, more or less: Alto, small and large tenor and bass on semi-professional level, proficiency on euphonium and bass trumpet. Key topics within this are for me always: Further stabilizing range, reliable and flexible articulation, developing sound concept

2 Developing my overall jazz playing including style and getting more into improvising. For me right now that's playing some jazz ballads, some tunes from the real book, backing tracks etc.

3 Also outside jazz playing more music. 2020 and 2021 were almost exclusively practising in my basement - which was great for the basics - but I am happy to play in diverse musical settings again

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:17 am**

My goal is to continue improving my improv skills on ballads. I don't like "busy" trombone players. Instead, I prefer to listen to and play in more of a singing or crooning style, where the melody line is either sweetened to add drama and importance to it, or to abandon it altogether for an alternate melody line that is better than or at least as sweet as the original.

There are times when I nail it and times when I sound like a sick moose. My goal is to increase the frequency of the times when I think "I got this".

I don't "play by ear" yet. That is another goal. Presently, I read the written chords against the written melody line. So I need to be able to more quickly understand the various chord permutations. Sometimes it baffles me how good-sounding alternative melody notes can be extracted from certain chords I see. When I reach a place in the music where the chords make no sense other than the actual melody line notes, I stop. If I can't find any chord notes that sound plausible, I conclude that somehow, someone messed up the chord progression along the way in the Fake Book or music database I have, and I - by trial and error - must amend the chord progression until it works again.

I believe piano players and guitar players have a leg up on us trombone players in this department.

I'm a work-in-progress.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:33 am**

1. Stop trying to play too loud in ensembles. Don't have to overblow. People tell me I'm plenty loud when I need to be, but the feedback I get from behind the bell with a whole ensemble playing around me tricks my brain into thinking I'm playing too soft. I'm aware of this now, and trying to break my old habits of trying too hard.
2. Increase my efficiency in the low range - I'm transitioning back to a 1 1/4G size from a 1G. Learning how to play properly in the low register without having to resort to using a huge mouthpiece.
3. Improve my accuracy in the high register.
4. Minimizing the movement of my embouchure while going through the ranges of the horn.
5. I switched back to an independent valve system on bass trombone. Learn to use the Gb valve effectively and play in tune.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:20 am**

For me it mostly boils down to ensembles: a 5tet and a 4tet.

I've recently created a brass quintet, and my goals mostly center around this group. I need to get it off the ground by making it a group that runs itself with less direct input from me. It finds its own gigs, powers its own improvements, finds its own music, makes its own publicity, etc. Running every aspect of it myself doesn't seem to be a good plan - I'd like it to be more democratic, and selfishly, I'd like less work. I need to be able to delegate things to members. We have a weak link in the group, and I'm hoping that works itself out - at the moment there don't seem to be any good solutions.

I'm also part of an 9 year old trombone quartet that has mainly been a rehearsal group up to now. We might have the opportunity to change that, as the member opposed to playing out could be moving out of the area. This group is actually more fun to play in than the quintet, and there seems to be a nice set of people willing to sub. So, I guess more public gigs for this group would be a goal. We've got a huge book accumulated, and some good players, just need to tighten a few things up musically to performance levels.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:35 pm**

I am working on my first album. I'm doing a mix of works that haven't been recorded before and some old favorites. My goal with previously recorded works is to do completely new interpretations. I want it to be like you opened a side window to a familiar room and now have a totally different view.

My issue is time. The schedule is busy and trying to squeeze it into the limited time slots I have means I wouldn't be giving it the time it deserves.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:38 pm**

Can't wait to hear it!

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:41 pm**

Working on memorizing Reflective Mood for an upcoming performance.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:58 pm**

Currently, I need to make sure I safely navigate my gig schedule next week. Holiday season gigs just piled up this year. Good problem to have!

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:10 pm**

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:55 pmplay gooder

I'll do you one better. My goal?
Don't suck.

Seriously - my musical goals tend to be very short-term. More of a survival mode attitude. Just get through the next concert without looking (and sounding) like a complete putz.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:28 pm**

Finish well coming back after an 8 year lay off with first public performance with a brass quintet this Saturday.

Then keep going and start to finally figure out how to improv as I enter my 60's.

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:54 pm**

With some breaks, I've played saxophone in school bands and then community bands for about 19 years now but I only picked up trombone summer last year. I can see the progress I've made, but I haven't had very much with specific mid to long-term goals other than "get good" and I'm a very long way from the comfort and proficiency I have on sax. There are a few more concrete things this question has gotten me thinking about though. This isn't really an order of importance.

1. Wider range without shifting. I have a default embouchure setting that takes me up to around Gb4-G4. I've noticed that there's a different setting I can take that I can use up to C5 or so, but this only goes down to maybe F3 (I'm not working on this setting, I just noticed it's a thing I can do). I'd like to work on being able to use my default through that kind of total range. Since I'd only ever be playing in amateur groups, I'm sure that's all the range I'd really need.

2. Comfort in any key. I honestly just need to make scale work a thing every time I practice because that's a lot of how I got this on sax back in high school.

3. A goal I actually just accomplished was getting to the point where I was up to playing trombone in the community band I'm in. I'm playing trombone 3 in a concert next week. Related to this, I'd like to find a group closer to me that I can play trombone in (this one is pretty far).

4. Being able to play by ear on trombone. It's weird, but when I'm trying to play by ear on trombone I sometimes lose awareness of what note I'm playing. When this happens, even if I can tell the interval between where I am and where I need to go, if I need to change partials things shut down. I guess for me, decide to play a note -> play isn't the same for me as play a note -> what was that?

5. Improving my ear for tuning and better learning tendencies on each of my horns. I jumped right in with trombone and already have a staple coming together. I'm aware of the basic tendencies, but I need to start correcting my positions for them and also internalizing how they vary on each horn. So far I just have static slide positions (except for on Gb4 and G4 when I don't play them in 4th and 5th), though I do still adjust if I can tell I missed or if I can hear how the note is out of tune on that partial.

6. Reading better/not getting overwhelmed. Most of the music I've read so far has been fairly easy so I'm still not amazing at reading bass clef and translating it to playing. I've noticed my accuracy with partials suffers a lot when I get overwhelmed while reading. I think playing in the band will help this a lot though just by giving me a lot more practice with reading and sometimes playing faster.

7. Totally eliminate the double buzz. It hasn't been as big a problem for maybe a month or so but I developed a double buzz that happens on the Bb3 partial, typically around G. Oddly, it wasn't an issue until after I had already been playing for a year. Now it just happens when my lips are getting pretty tired but I would really like to nail this down and totally eliminate it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:46 am**

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:35 pm I am working on my first album. I'm doing a mix of works that haven't been recorded before and some old favorites. My goal with previously recorded works is to do completely new interpretations. I want it to be like you opened a side window to a familiar room and now have a totally different view.

My issue is time. The schedule is busy and trying to squeeze it into the limited time slots I have means I wouldn't be giving it the time it deserves.

Exciting! please post it here somewhere when you finish I'd love to check it out.

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 am**

AndrewMeronek wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:58 pm Currently, I need to make sure I safely navigate my gig schedule next week. Holiday season gigs just piled up this year. Good problem to have!

I feel this I often have to put personal stuff on pause for an upcoming stressful gig. I think the big thing is just having stuff ready when things slow back down.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:09 pm**

Being of an age which has grey hair my goals have certainly changed.
Now it is to continue to enjoy and bring happiness to the audience that has chosen to listen the music the group is performing.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:48 pm**

I'm still trying to get my endurance back to what it was pre-COVID. Lockdown was catastrophic for my playing, for various reasons. Thankfully I can still play at the level I need to, but endurance remains a big thorn in my side on the most taxing gigs (aka anything involving trumpet).

Other than that, more specific goals include improving my high register on trumpet to a consistent high G, improving my low register on French horn, and really digging into my improvisation vocabulary (especially on trombone). Also completing at least one new multitrack in 2023.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:00 am**

My current goal is to bring my bass sackbut playing to the same level (or at least closer to) my tenor playing. Half of my work is on bass, and my level is definitely professionally adequate, but I feel much less in control and artistically free than on tenor, and I can tell that people who see/know me primarily as a bass player tend to assume my tenor playing is similar, and not as good as it actually is, and thus don't consider me as good a player overall as colleagues who know my tenor playing more.
I'm playing an opera production these days where I switch constantly between the two and it has really hammered in this impression of not having the same level of control on both. Recording my first solo album next month and I've had to decide to only play tenor on it, but I would have much preferred to feel comfortable playing both.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:05 pm**

A useful question. I’m 67, playing for the better part of 60 years. Playing more orch these days but occasional big band. All amateur.

Goals:

1. Solidify high range (a weakness)
2. Tonguing (weakness)
3. Work on alto clef every day
4. Spend some time every day on bass
5. Spend some time every day on alto (I have my eye on Magic Flute overture next May)
6. Work on excerpts. Some of these are such lovely bits of music. Think of La Gazza Ladra
7. Work on some standard rep
8. Work on concert material. Shost 5, Tchaik 6, Symph Fantastique coming up this spring
9. Work on improvisation

Hmmm. Pretty full list.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:09 pm**

Finetales wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:48 pm Also completing at least one new multitrack in 2023.

To encourage you along, if you accomplish that goal, I'll make it my goal to listen to your multitrack at least 20 times, just like the last one

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:29 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:09 pm
Finetales wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:48 pm Also completing at least one new multitrack in 2023.
To encourage you along, if you accomplish that goal, I'll make it my goal to listen to your multitrack at least 20 times, just like the last one

The next one is already written and set up in the DAW ready to go, I just have to get in the studio (a few times) to record everything. Got lots more already written as well.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:59 pm**

My current musical goal is to improve my reading of C Treble Clef. I have a collection of Fake Books in C Treble Clef (not to be confused with Bb treble clef like a trumpet player) and I want to play from them. I have made good progress already. I think my C Treble (8vab) is at least as good as my alto and close to my tenor.

Problem with playing low brass all the time is we never read parts in C treble clef. It's bass clef, tenor clef, transposed treble (Bb), and alto.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:04 pm**

Those fake books generally have the chord progressions marked in. So that might also be a good chance to think a little deeper in C treble while reading the melody line and adding some chord note enhancements.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:16 pm**

Improve my double-tonguing in the upper range so I can play some challenging oval tenorhorn solos from the Viera Blech repertoire (and/or similar such as Euph air and variations) in public.

The process isn’t much fun for other household members when I’m practicing but I’m confident I’ll get there in the end.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:50 pm**

Chronos91 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:54 pm
4. Being able to play by ear on trombone. It's weird, but when I'm trying to play by ear on trombone I sometimes lose awareness of what note I'm playing. When this happens, even if I can tell the interval between where I am and where I need to go, if I need to change partials things shut down. I guess for me, decide to play a note -> play isn't the same for me as play a note -> what was that?

I’ve been playing trombone for 30 years, and this is also my biggest weakness when improvising. I love playing jazz, but I’m much more comfortable reading a part than soloing… I did not begin to learn to improvise until late in college, and never got completely comfortable.

After a long break from playing jazz regularly, I have played 1st part in a big band for about 2 years now. I don’t solo very often, but when I do, that’s the same problem I have. I realized early on when I was learning to improvise that you can’t “just play,” you actually have to know what note you’re playing, where you are on the horn, and where you’re going. I’m sure expert improvisers get to a point where they can ”just play “ because it starts to come naturally. I can usually hear a decent solo in my head, but then I’ll get to a spot in the middle where I don’t quite figure out what was the next note I wanted to play. Someday, maybe I’ll get past it

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:10 pm**

I have been a freelance studio musician (an occasional touring musician) most of my life… performing became more of a chore than enjoyment… then, this past summer I was hit with a debilitating heart issue. I was out all summer, then had open heart surgery the end of August.

You never realize what you had until it’s taken away… I was unable to play from May until about a month ago… the joy of playing is back! My health progression is due to my determination to get back on track with my playing. My number one goal is to keep the joy of playing. Other goals are to perfect my contra playing, and learn the tendencies of my new alto.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:21 pm**

Convincing folks in my city that they must pay for live music because "exposure" won't spend.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:44 pm**

deanmccarty wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:10 pm… then, this past summer I was hit with a debilitating heart issue. I was out all summer, then had open heart surgery the end of August...

Whoa, ok, you win. What a story. Congrats on the recovery. It's a shame we have to sometimes lose so much to realize what we already have. Thx for the reminder.

Posted: **Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:04 am**

I'm going to be 70 in a couple of weeks and "retired" from professional playing the end of May due to a sporadic lip tremor. Since then I've only had it 5-6 times so it's not too bad. Up until I retired, I had few problems "keeping up", basically did whatever technical work was necessary to get me from gig to gig. So now I'm working on simply filling the technical holes. This means,
1) downsizing from a Wedge S59 to a Wedge 110 or maybe even a Wedge 108. The 108 feels better but has a brighter tone (to me, not to the listener). The 110 has a more S59 type width and depth of sound (again to me, not to the listener). But both are more efficient than the larger S59, which means better upper register, better endurance.
2) broadening out my lower register both in terms of weight as well as accuracies. So I do a LOT of Bordogni. This has brought the added advantage of really improving my slide technique downstairs. This also optimises the usage of the lower jaw pivot into the lower register and more important, when NOT to use it. The slight "problem" I've always had of needing two tries to playing a staccato eighth run from the upper register into the double paddle register is finally dissipating. That means more consistency going between registers from top to bottom. I've never had a problem going in the other direction, since switching to Wedge mouthpieces about 6 years ago.
3) trying not to startle my dog with my playing. He used to bail as soon as I grabbed the trombone and stayed well away until I was finished. Now he stays and watches me carefully while I play, and I've caught him even napping, usually with his head under the throw pillows on the couch. I take his presence and relaxed state as a positive critique of my playing.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:37 pm**

Having just picked up a bass trombone for the first time in July, my immediate goal is to recover from a forced 3 week break after 3 wisdom teeth were extracted. At almost 68 my new dentist couldn't believe I still had all 4! I wasn't sure how to interpret my wife's comment after the first practice session after I was cleared to resume playing. "You don't sound as bad as you did in July when you started!"

My intermediate goal over the next few months is to play at the same level as the other players in the big band I'm with. Daily practice sessions and biweekly lessons have, and will continue, to facilitate this.

My more long term goal (in a year?) is to feel comfortable doing a bass solo/feature with the band.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:12 am**

a bit late but my current performance goal is to be able to play Reflective Mood and The Journey better.
my goal for next year is to memorize Morceau Symphonique.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:48 am**

I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to music, so my goals aren't very intensive or matter much in the big picture. I pretty much gave up on trying to find a band or group to play in, so I have no outside pressures pushing me towards a certain skill set. I just want to focus on getting faster with more accuracy. I've always had a weakness in that area, so this year I will work on that specifically.

Overall I just want to be better today than I was yesterday, even if only by a thin sliver. I gave up comparing myself to others a long time ago. I've accepted the reality that everybody is a better player than me, and I'm ok with that. If I improve based on my own standard, then I'm happy with it.

Someday I hope to achieve a low level of competency. I can always dream

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:54 am**

JohnL wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:10 pm
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:55 pmplay gooder
I'll do you one better. My goal?
Don't suck.

Seriously - my musical goals tend to be very short-term. More of a survival mode attitude. Just get through the next concert without looking (and sounding) like a complete putz.

I can't remember the artist right now, but when he was complimented on his "good" art, he simply said "I don't think it's particularly good, but it's the least bad that I can do".

That's how I view my trombone playing.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:14 am**

I once had a goal of making my trombone playing a reliable and fun "side hustle" but it's too hard around here to transform trombone playing into actual dollars. It does not matter how good you are, and I've been told I'm a good player.

As an older man with hearing aids, one goal is to get more comfortable with that compromise. The aids "trap" your sound inside your head and I can't play that way, so I remove them. Am I getting a true picture of my own tone, being hearing impaired? No idea.

Other goal - work on improving my jazz improv, always. I had a late start on that, so much to learn.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:48 pm**

I hear you, I think, on the hearing aid quandary. I sound so harsh with them in, I assume everyone hears the horror. When I dutifully take them out, it's like magic. The harshness and explosive attacks and angry tones are replaced by a surprising level of smoothness...from the same idiot playing...I like me, I really like me. Now, how does the innocent John Q listener hear it? I am afraid to find out. A brave man would just record the darn thing and listen with and without the aids. But....that doesn't tell you how the polite people smiling at you really hear it. Gotta think some aspiring trombone student could use this quandary as a basis for a Master's thesis. I bet you there is a huge pile of brass musicians whose hearing problems cause them to second guess or third guess just what the hell is coming out of their instruments.

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:24 pm**

henrysa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:48 pm I hear you, I think, on the hearing aid quandary.
Thanks

I sound so harsh with them in, I assume everyone hears the horror. When I dutifully take them out, it's like magic.
Same here

gotta think some aspiring trombone student could use this quandary as a basis for a Master's thesis.
Sounds like a plan to me. Many of the young folk will be in the same situation themselves someday.

I bet you there is a huge pile of brass musicians whose hearing problems cause them to second guess or third guess just what the hell is coming out of their instruments.
It's certainly a thing, just not talked about much if at all

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:06 am**

1. Solidify pedal register- both attack and tone quality
2. Add a minor third to “playable” high register.
3. Increase length of time I can play through a phrase before needing to breathe.

I realize all of the above relate to technique, but they would certainly improve my musicianship.

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:14 am**

henrysa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:48 pm I hear you, I think, on the hearing aid quandary. I sound so harsh with them in, I assume everyone hears the horror. When I dutifully take them out, it's like magic. The harshness and explosive attacks and angry tones are replaced by a surprising level of smoothness...from the same idiot playing...I like me, I really like me. Now, how does the innocent John Q listener hear it? I am afraid to find out. A brave man would just record the darn thing and listen with and without the aids. But....that doesn't tell you how the polite people smiling at you really hear it. Gotta think some aspiring trombone student could use this quandary as a basis for a Master's thesis. I bet you there is a huge pile of brass musicians whose hearing problems cause them to second guess or third guess just what the hell is coming out of their instruments.

Record yourself with them in and out.

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:01 am**

Musical goals:
- Make sure that I am well prepared for some upcoming projects this year. Those that I know already are: A relatively high level trombone ensemble concert where I will be playing some musically and technically challenging bass and tenor parts, a hopefully good brass ensemble project in the summer, and an amateur orchestra where I will be playing some (for me) challenging alto trombone stuff. Ideally there would be some bigband and some wind band/euphonium playing as well this year
- Some literature that I want to pick up (again) this year, among others Gröndahl concerto, Pederson's Blue Topaz, Appermont's Green Hill on euphonium
- Include more music in my lessons

Other goals:
- Continue having lessons with some great teachers. For me that's a mix of mostly online lessons, but also the one or other live lesson coming up this year
- Overall further refining general technique on all instruments. Constantly feeling comfortable on all of them and being able to change around without much of an adoption time (which I need for some of the concerts this year)
- Further refining sound concept - in relation to the different instruments

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:24 am**

Continue to develop chromatic slipping to get around the horn in a tonality.

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:36 am**

my goal is to stay relaxed when I play.

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:19 pm**

Get more comfortable playing with actual music. For any horn I play, most I ever get for weekly play time is a chord sheet that the guitarists and keyboard players use. Really comfortable playing that way, but when it’s ensemble time I don’t feel as free while playing. Not that I can’t read the music, just get nervous about it. Most I play in a brass ensemble is twice a year, improv is weekly. I do use printed material for practice times, alternate between bass and treble clef. Also like to improve transposing on French horn. No problem if we play in stated key, but last minute changes with no music is not fun. Not a problem on trumpet, trombone, or euph, but horn is a different story. Get lucky occasionally, they drop a full step so I just swap out tuning crook from F to the Eb one.

Posted: **Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:18 pm**

I just finished preparing and performing my first master's recital so now I've got some free time to work on things I want to. Now I'm working playing more challenging etudes, like the Boutry, but also playing simple etudes, Cimera, without making any mistakes.

I'm also reading "Peak" by Anders Ericsson which aligns very well with Arnold Jacobs' philosophy of "song and wind."

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:15 am**

Finishing up my masters degree currently, I’ll be graduating in like a month. Going on to an AD and only really have my jury plus an audition.

Short-Term Goals: Jury and Audition

Long Term Goals: Consistency of sound, all the recital prep made focus less on some fundamentals, mainly making all the registers sound the same all the time. I have also been reading through “Getting things done” by David Allen. My Masters degree was a hot mess of late nights, no social life and constant stress, I don’t want my Artist Diploma to be the same.

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