TromboneChat

Has anyone tried these? Opinion?

THE INGRAM - MUTEMEISTER MUTES BY WARBURTON
The Cup Mute

The Ingram - MuteMeister Cup Mute brings together the best acoustic qualities from both the 1930s Ray Robinson cup mute and the 1940s Shastock Tonalcolor cup mute. Its sound is pleasing yet present in both live performance and studio work. The cup is lined with a solid piece of felt, as was done with the original Ray Robinson mute. However, there are no rivets used in the manufacture of the cone or cup, which enhances resonance. The cup also utilizes a wooden resonator with a tone hole to preserve intonation and ease of blow.

https://warburton-usa.com/collections/w ... 2546827581

Pricey. Perhaps my experience is unusual, but it seems that we are getting fewer calls for mutes - and more resistance to using them - these days. In our swing bands, we use only the basics - cup (seldom), straight (very seldom), plunger (occasionally), and bucket (Softone). When called for "hat" we play into the stands. I know that mutes are more common in Broadway show pits and possibly "commercial" settings. Your repertoire / ensembles may have different requirements.

I'm happy with a Denis Wick straight and Denis Wick adjustable cup. I own a Humes & Berg "Clear-Tone" mute and a "Wah-Wah" mute, and a few others - fun to play around with, but I've never used them in performance.

Myself and Andy Baker in Chicago were helping Roger test the mutes and give comments. I think they turned out really well. I have a set that I’m using whenever I need mutes. Generally in big band and pit orchestra settings on my small bore. I like the more traditional sound they get versus the metal mutes I was using before.

I’m guessing you guys have nailed the most active use of these gems, in show pits and for more “authentic” sound in Ellington, Basie….swing era with ensembles truly reaching for that level of authenticity. Just judging by the old ones, they truly have a character all their own, and I look forward to trying them out.

I have the cup mute from trumpet.
Never used it in a band for now (since Covid, I only played in symphonic setting) but I love it.
It's definitely a big band sounding mute, I'll keep using my Denis Wick cup in the orchestra.

My big band set currently has me pulling out the plunger every other tune, and a couple cup mute uses. Mutes are important. Not using them would be a shame.

I would just go with the "stonelined" Humes and Berg, which gives the classic sound. Or, if you really want to spend that much, get an Ullvén adjustable cup mute while they are still around being made.

Anyone know if their "ShowTune" mute compares to a vintage Shastock Solotone?

It looks like it could be good, but it claims to be 'better' - which is funny because the main thing you want with the original is matching a pretty specific sound, and being 'not great' in certain overtones might be considered part of the tone you are going for.

I couldn't find any videos demoing it. I think it might be a fairly new mute for them?

I was particularly pleased with the cup and showtone mutes. They compared well with my Ray Robinson and Shastok. I convinced Roger to put a small hole in the cup resonator (the way the old guys did) and it really made the thing come alive - that’s the way they come from the factory. Check them out!

They should pay you a commission, I just ordered one.

I thought I had found a really good deal on a new old stock Freetone solotone trombone mute, but it showed up today and it is clearly a trumpet mute oh well. It's in like-new condition... So I'll go sell that on eBay I guess.

I was looking at the Trumcor solotone clone too, but based on your comments decided to go with the Ingram one since I don't want to have to buy a third one

Out of curiosity, who made the "Solo Tone" mutes back in the old days? Humes & Berg? I played Song of India years ago but wasn't able to get a mute in time for it. I'd love to get one now so I can play it right next time.

Shastock made the Solotone mute. Back in the Bad Old Days when you couldn't buy a Shastock you could get a Humes and Berg "Cleartone" mute (still made today). I've used my Cleartone for Dorsey solos for years.

Shastock Solotones are not on the market often - maybe you could post a WTB and someone with one sitting in a drawer will decide to sell it to you.

There are at least three contemporary versions - Trumcor and Ingram, and another one by a Japanese company - the Trumcor one is around $125, the Ingram one is $150, the Japanese imported one was over $180 (can't remember for sure, might have even been over $200). The H&B one has been around a long time and a lot of people say it's good enough for the effect. It is significantly cheaper - I think I've seen them go for under $50 and maybe even less.

I guess I should clarify with the "I" bought it - it's actually my son and he's paying for it with his own money... He is playing in the pit band at his school for Newsies and it calls for a Solotone...

If it were me, I'd probably just get the H&B one since nobody would appreciate the difference except for maybe a couple trombone mute nerds.

If you do find an actual solotone, it will probably hold it's value pretty well since they aren't made any more there will always be someone wanting one just for the sake of having the original.

The H&B Cleartone is more than good enough for most every real-world situation in my experience. I'm pretty sure Broadway proper would be one of the only places where you'd really need one of the fancier solotones. I'd love to try the Trumcor or Ingram, but actually forking over the money for one is pretty near the bottom of the priority list. But solotone IS one of my favorite mutes, so I don't think it's totally out of the question either.

I think the Robinson-style cup mutes might have more potential - an H&B Stonelined (even a Mic-a-Mute) doesn't really sound like a Ray Robinson. But then, like the solotones, I don't think there are many situations where you would explicitly need a Ray Robinson cup mute sound and not just a big band cup mute sound, a la H&B.

I've never had a marking for a Ray Robinson cup mute or Shastock solotone mute on my stand, but I've had plenty of "Stonelined straight" or "Stonelined cup".

The Tomasi "To Be or not To Be" - (solo for either Bass trombone or Tuba w/3 trombone accompaniment) specifies "Robinson Mute" in the trombone parts. Interestingly, it doesn't say straight or cup - most people use cups for those passages, because there are some straight mute passages as well.

I have a couple of Robinson cup mutes - great sound, but a bit of a sketchy low range, like the Stonelines. It would be nice to have that sound with a better low range. Also, my Cleartone is so sharp that it's almost un-usable unless you have time to adjust your tuning slide. I played "Mary Poppins" about 10 years ago, and I played a solo that was supposed to be on solotone on harmon (conductor approved) because there wasn't enough time to pull the slide, and the H&B was a quarter tone high. I have a Soulo cup mute that has a similar sound to the H&B and Robinson, but it plays better in tune and has a low range. Not quite the vintage sound, but really close. The Solotone is still the hardest mute to find a user-friendly version. If I was doing a lot of show playing, and if I had a long time left in my career, I might be interested in this new version.

Jim Scott

Well this definitely has been enlightening regarding the history of mutes. I'd never even heard of Shastock or Robinson until now. My brain just kinda assumed everyone used H&B stone-lined mutes back "in the old days". I guess apparently they were the more economical choice even back then? Or is it a case of "they don't make them like they used to"?

My first cup mute (in the late 1950s) was a Ray Robinson. I liked the color scheme better than the Humes and Berg. I never knew it was so great. Eventually it became "convertible" and then a straight (the cup section broke completely). As a Junior High School player I never noticed a difference between the Ray Robinson and a standard StoneLine.

CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:26 pmAlso, my Cleartone is so sharp that it's almost un-usable unless you have time to adjust your tuning slide. I played "Mary Poppins" about 10 years ago, and I played a solo that was supposed to be on solotone on harmon (conductor approved) because there wasn't enough time to pull the slide, and the H&B was a quarter tone high.

The Cleartone must vary a lot from mute to mute, as I've never needed to pull a slide with mine. Most recently, I used it in a couple productions of Cabaret and a recording session - no tuning issues, played right down the middle.

Finetales wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:18 am

CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:26 pmAlso, my Cleartone is so sharp that it's almost un-usable unless you have time to adjust your tuning slide. I played "Mary Poppins" about 10 years ago, and I played a solo that was supposed to be on solotone on harmon (conductor approved) because there wasn't enough time to pull the slide, and the H&B was a quarter tone high.

The Cleartone must vary a lot from mute to mute, as I've never needed to pull a slide with mine. Most recently, I used it in a couple productions of Cabaret and a recording session - no tuning issues, played right down the middle.

That could be, or maybe it's an issue with the fit in the .547 horn that I was using.

JS

That could be it - they definitely like small horns best. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody who currently makes a bigger solotone. I found out recently that Eric Swanson made a few bass trombone solotones, and I recently missed out on one that was on eBay.

I've tried the Yupon solotone one and it's really a nice mute that played very evenly, but dunno if it feels like it's worth $100+ more than the H&B, even as a mute fetishist....

on the largebore side I added a wooden ring on the inside of my H&B (same as a mel-o-wah has) and that reallly evened it out a lot in terms of pitch on a larger horn. It pushed the sound more towards the mel-o-wah as well, but in a fairly nominal way, especially for the increase in pitch consistency/playability.

mbarbier wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:21 pm I've tried the Yupon solotone one and it's really a nice mute that played very evenly, but dunno if it feels like it's worth $100+ more than the H&B, even as a mute fetishist....

I hear that, but I bought one a few years back when I had three shows that season with a lot of calls for solotone. I don't miss the money or the B.S. you have to deal with from the H&B. Maybe I just have a "bad" one. The Yupon works just as well on bass trombone too, somehow. I'd like to give the Yupon straight and cup mutes a try as well.

I am actually typing this as, in another browser tab, I have a $70 plunger mute in my cart...

I've got a Robinson straight & cup, but they've been collecting dust for several years now. They worked fairly well when I was on a 3B, but they are simply unusable on my 891Z for some reason. Its nearly impossible to get notes below to center or even speak. I'm sure if I fooled around with the corks and/or put a couple holes in them they'd feel & sound a lot better, but I don't want to do that to them. That might hinder my ability to sell them for an obscene price.

bassclef wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:36 pm

mbarbier wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:21 pm I've tried the Yupon solotone one and it's really a nice mute that played very evenly, but dunno if it feels like it's worth $100+ more than the H&B, even as a mute fetishist....

I hear that, but I bought one a few years back when I had three shows that season with a lot of calls for solotone. I don't miss the money or the B.S. you have to deal with from the H&B. Maybe I just have a "bad" one. The Yupon works just as well on bass trombone too, somehow. I'd like to give the Yupon straight and cup mutes a try as well.

I am actually typing this as, in another browser tab, I have a $70 plunger mute in my cart...

I've got a Robinson straight & cup, but they've been collecting dust for several years now. They worked fairly well when I was on a 3B, but they are simply unusable on my 891Z for some reason. Its nearly impossible to get notes below to center or even speak. I'm sure if I fooled around with the corks and/or put a couple holes in them they'd feel & sound a lot better, but I don't want to do that to them. That might hinder my ability to sell them for an obscene price.

I hear that- it's worth the money not to fight things. I'm going to Bob Reeves next week to try mutes that are all way more expensive than I should spend, including a few solo tone style ones. I'm really stoked! They have a few of the other yupon ones that I'm looking forward to.

I feel like the H&B can be pretty inconsistent. I've been fabricating the melowahs out of a different H&B mute and it's interesting how there little variants really change those things.

There's a maker that makes metal solotones that I'd really like to try but can never seem to find them in stock. Has anyone every tried one of them?

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:02 pm I hear that- it's worth the money not to fight things. I'm going to Bob Reeves next week to try mutes that are all way more expensive than I should spend, including a few solo tone style ones. I'm really stoked! They have a few of the other yupon ones that I'm looking forward to.

That sounds like fun! I am totally interested in your thoughts on the Yupons, if you get to try them out.

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:02 pm There's a maker that makes metal solotones that I'd really like to try but can never seem to find them in stock. Has anyone every tried one of them?

Interesting....I don't think I've ever even seen a picture of those.

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:02 pm There's a maker that makes metal solotones that I'd really like to try but can never seem to find them in stock. Has anyone every tried one of them?

I picked up one of the aluminum Emo solotones from Thomann (https://www.thomannmusic.com/emo_trombo ... ne_alu.htm) a while back. I dig the sound, though I have no real baseline against which to measure, as I've never played another solotone before. It doesn't throw the partials out of whack, and generally responds pretty well. Gets a bit dicey down below the staff, but that seems par for the course on a lot of mutes, and also probably not the typical register for this sort of mute in any case.

Yes- that's one of them- found the other brand I've seen, though they're maybe the same?


https://www.prestomusic.com/instruments ... ne-posaune

muschem wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:34 pm

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:02 pm There's a maker that makes metal solotones that I'd really like to try but can never seem to find them in stock. Has anyone every tried one of them?

I picked up one of the aluminum Emo solotones from Thomann (https://www.thomannmusic.com/emo_trombo ... ne_alu.htm) a while back. I dig the sound, though I have no real baseline against which to measure, as I've never played another solotone before. It doesn't throw the partials out of whack, and generally responds pretty well. Gets a bit dicey down below the staff, but that seems par for the course on a lot of mutes, and also probably not the typical register for this sort of mute in any case.

That's super helpful to know you've got one- thank you! Has anyone tried the other (or know anything about Gewa?)

bassclef wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:14 pm

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:02 pm I hear that- it's worth the money not to fight things. I'm going to Bob Reeves next week to try mutes that are all way more expensive than I should spend, including a few solo tone style ones. I'm really stoked! They have a few of the other yupon ones that I'm looking forward to.

That sounds like fun! I am totally interested in your thoughts on the Yupons, if you get to try them out.

Definitely! I'll pass them on! They have a bunch of the fancy Swedish mutes, forgetting the name, that Harrison has posted about, so I'm very excited to try those. I'll definitely share what I find!

There are a bunch of interesting mutes on Thomann I've been meaning to eventually try - it's only really worth it to buy from there if you buy a bunch of things at once so the shipping will combine. But those Emo solotones and and the megaphone mute are on that list.

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 5:36 pm Yes- that's one of them- found the other brand I've seen, though they're maybe the same?

They're the same... Gewa is a German distributor that sticks its name on all sorts of stuff, from cheap Chinese accessories that you can find under a million names to CF string cases made for them etc etc. The Emo brand goes back at least as far as GDR/Vogtland stencil trumpets.

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:50 am

mbarbier wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 5:36 pm Yes- that's one of them- found the other brand I've seen, though they're maybe the same?

They're the same... Gewa is a German distributor that sticks its name on all sorts of stuff, from cheap Chinese accessories that you can find under a million names to CF string cases made for them etc etc. The Emo brand goes back at least as far as GDR/Vogtland stencil trumpets.

Amazing - thank you so much for the clarity!

Finetales wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:51 pm There are a bunch of interesting mutes on Thomann I've been meaning to eventually try - it's only really worth it to buy from there if you buy a bunch of things at once so the shipping will combine. But those Emo solotones and and the megaphone mute are on that list.

Agreed!

The megaphone looks like it's just a melowah without the ring on the end of the resonance chamber. I might be getting them when I'm over in October. Will let you know if I do.

I would actually prefer the Emo every time to the H&B. I like the sound a lot more of both versions. the carbofiber or whatever the material is sounds the best in my ears. The aluminum one sounds more brassy to me and it gets broken if it drops down a few times too much. Then it has an interesting sizzling sound, little bit like a buzz mute.

Yet want to try the Yupon one.