Holton trombones why is inexpensive

[MaxPirone]

Why Holton trombones are really inexpensive...i have two tr 69 and for me are one of the best horn ever made really easy...great sound...also my tr158 are really good easy and really good...

[BGuttman]

The Holton line of trombones has gone the way of Benge. No longer in production. The small bores also don't seem that popular (but I love my 67 Stratodyne that belonged to Cas Brosky). There appears to be a following for the 180 bass, though.

[hornbuilder]

The Tr-181 is still being produced, even if in small numbers. Coming out of the Bach plant in Elkhart IN.

[WGWTR180]

Why Holton trombones are really inexpensive...i have two tr 69 and for me are one of the best horn ever made really easy...great sound...also my tr158 are really good easy and really good...

I guess inexpensive is a relative term. A single clave 169 just sold for over 4K. But yes compared to new modern instruments I guess they are inexpensive.

[MaxPirone]

Yes I know 169 are really desiderabile horn...

[Pezza]

Every holton I've played was between not good & absolute sh1te. All well overpriced for what was paid for them.
Some people like them, I've just never found 1 that was any good, for me!

[MrHCinDE]

The vintage Holton horns which have passed through my hands (Stratodyne 67, TR-150 and TR-180) all played way better than I would have expected for the prices I paid/sold for. Loads of character, maybe needing a bit more concentration to play well but once you get used to them all were very nice horns.

On the other hand, of the three, only the TR-180 is still in my hands. I sold the others mainly to find other projects, not because I didn’t like them, but realistically they weren’t usually my first choice for most settings and keeping them as backups seemed pointless (plus I needed the cash for other projects). Why not first choice? Well, it came down to the condition of the individual horns being more on the workhorse end (still completely playable though) and I wasn’t playing many gigs where I didn’t want to risk my better condition first choice horns. If I was shopping for another horn, I would definitely be considering a Holton in excellent condition, if I could find one.

[WGWTR180]

Every holton I've played was between not good & absolute sh1te. All well overpriced for what was paid for them.
Some people like them, I've just never found 1 that was any good, for me!

As with any instrument bad ones exist.

[chromebone]

If Joe Alessi showed up to work with a Tr 158 tomorrow, I guarantee they’d be worth 10X the price and everyone would be trading in their Shires, just like they did with their Bachs after he switched to Edwards and before that, everyone switched to Bachs from their Conns after he replaced his Conn playing predecessor, Ed Herman.

Holtons are perfectly good instruments, there were some name players back in the day like Frank Crisafulli and Rudy Josel who played them, Holton just didn’t do a good job of keeping up with the times and updating their instruments to players tastes and satisfying their name artists: I know of a couple of name players who tried to work with Holton back when it was still part of LeBlanc to design instruments, but the corporate culture at LeBlanc didn’t care.
I heard Jay Friedman stopped his association with Holton because they refused to make an F attachment version of his signature horn. More often it’s about marketing and corporate culture than the actual product that is the issue. The failure of Benge is a similar story; just about anyone I know who has tried one praises them highly, and they are magnificent instruments, but the brand got caught up in a corporate takeover and was neglected in favor of more high profile brands in their portfolio.

The fact is, it’s really difficult, especially for “legit” players, to show up to a gig with a horn that isn’t considered “in”. Most people aren’t going to deal with the sideways glances from their colleagues, because even if they sound good on the horn, too many people hear with their eyes in this business, plus it’s cool to be a featured arteest on a brand’s website so you can impress your friends and intimidate your enemies.

[hyperbolica]

I've owned 5 Holtons. The first was a 156 that I used in a big orchestra in the late 1980s. Great horn for that, very powerful, and great range/sound if you have the chops. A Stratodyne, which was ok, but not stellar. I've had 2 159s, which are a valved version of the 156. These are incredibly versatile horns. With a smallish mouthpiece they are a tenor, and with a big mouthpiece you can get by as a single valve bass. I'm putting a plugin valve on mine and will use it as a light bass. I got this horn for $400. Great bargain. Finally I had a 181 which i really disliked, although I think I'd like a 180.

I've been tempted by a 100, but haven't been curious enough to bite on that one.

Holton tubas and French horns seem to have an even better reputation. Im not batting 1000 with Holton bones, but overall I like the brand.

[MaxPirone]

If Joe Alessi showed up to work with a Tr 158 tomorrow, I guarantee they’d be worth 10X the price and everyone would be trading in their Shires, just like they did with their Bachs after he switched to Edwards and before that, everyone switched to Bachs from their Conns after he replaced his Conn playing predecessor, Ed Herman.

Holtons are perfectly good instruments, there were some name players back in the day like Frank Crisafulli and Rudy Josel who played them, Holton just didn’t do a good job of keeping up with the times and updating their instruments to players tastes and satisfying their name artists: I know of a couple of name players who tried to work with Holton back when it was still part of LeBlanc to design instruments, but the corporate culture at LeBlanc didn’t care.
I heard Jay Friedman stopped his association with Holton because they refused to make an F attachment version of his signature horn. More often it’s about marketing and corporate culture than the actual product that is the issue. The failure of Benge is a similar story; just about anyone I know who has tried one praises them highly, and they are magnificent instruments, but the brand got caught up in a corporate takeover and was neglected in favor of more high profile brands in their portfolio.

The fact is, it’s really difficult, especially for “legit” players, to show up to a gig with a horn that isn’t considered “in”. Most people aren’t going to deal with the sideways glances from their colleagues, because even if they sound good on the horn, too many people hear with their eyes in this business, plus it’s cool to be a featured arteest on a brand’s website so you can impress your friends and intimidate your enemies.

Jay said that about the Holton never wanted to made a trigger model under his name

[MaxPirone]

Thanks to everyone...in fact was what I thinking...i have a tr 158 and plays great and I love the 69 Buddy Morrow's model and are my favorite now after my Williams 6 Burbank... really easy and very good sounds....I choice those between my 12 Bach Lt corp and the 69...I love the 185 the Dave Taylor 's bass from end of 70's until he choice the Edwards....I played two times from Dave's hands and plays beautiful...

[tbonesullivan]

Jay said that about the Holton never wanted to made a trigger model under his name

Now that's definitely interesting. Was Holton just not into making F-attachment Tenors at that point? Or did they not want to compete with their existing tenor and bass models? Seems like a strange decision, but the music industry is full of those.

[Finetales]

Same reason King 4BFs are inexpensive - they're not fashionable models. The 42B and 88H were the top dogs for a long time, and now it's mostly just Bach...or rather, Bach-style modular horns. Even Conn is barely out there outside of school horns anymore, except Los Angeles and London of course. Brands like Holton/King/Benge/Olds that were never popular among orchestral players to begin with really don't have much of a place now, so they go cheap.

In jazz it's a little more varied, but I mostly see Kings and Yamaha Xenos. A small bore Conn or Bach is a rare sight these days. I've never seen a Holton jazz horn in the wild, excluding the ones I owned for a time.

I've played some fabulous Holtons and some mediocre ones - the same story as Conn or Bach. Their ceiling is just as high, but it's a different character to the sound that doesn't seem to line up with a lot of players' sound concepts.

As for the other brass...Holton trumpets are probably even less cared about than the trombones, but the Holton French horns are alive and well. Like most Conns sold these days, they mostly go to schools, but a good Holton horn is every bit a professional instrument - I play one!

[jph]

Never popular among Orchestra players?
The entire Cleveland Orchestra trombone section once played “Benge” horns back in the 70’s. European majors also sported the brand. Plenty of Elkhorn Holtons inserted into Bach-heavy sections also.
Some of the us old farts are still around to give testimony to what existed then.

That said, I totally agree with the out of fashion today observations.

[Macbone1]

I've seen nice TR100s at wicked low prices go unsold on eBay. Never had the pleasure of trying one. My 1939 military-contract 65 was made by the hands of an angel and was a blast to play on, hard to put down. But I got weary of the very small bell and sold it.

Holton small bores kind of fell through the cracks as far as market share. I found the tone lacking in warmth compared to King and Bach. Not bad, just less warm. Holtons were not known for great slides. King always marketed the "best" slide for example (they weren't lying) and big names played on them of course. Holton never really did get a name artist endorsement on small bores after Buddy Morrow (who later switched to a 2B anyway).

[imsevimse]

Holtons are great horns but apparently hadn't the best department for marketing. I believe something like that is behind most of the brands that's gone, maybe not enough muscles and confidence to keep up. Holton was inovative and their collaboration with MF is what I think great. There are many good forgotten horns that deserve to be played. The Holton 169 is really gold and the rest I own are great too. "Special", 65 "Revelation/Buddy Morrow", TR395 "MF Superbone", TR150 "Artist", TR183 "Roberts", 2×TR185, 2×TR180.

Why they aren't expensive? My 169 is a single valve and was expensive because collectors want it. The others? The two TR185 wasn't cheap either and I think it's because they are in many cases just as good as singles as a 169, especially if they are like mine and comes with the 9.5" bell. Both mine came with the second birds-nest slot-in valve. One of them is tuned in Eb and the other one in D. The latter has also split triggers. Both these things makes it more desirable and therefore more expensive. The one in original has a second valve design that is hopless to play so it needs to be at least split to be used as a double. TR185 are cheaper most because they are not as sought after by collectors as the 169. When it comes to the tenors it's true I got them cheap and I think thats because they are completely out of fashion. One of the TR180 is dependant and in original. It has the Glanz-bar and is also in Bb/F/Eb. I think that's why that one was cheap. It does NOT make it very desirable. The other one is in Bb/F/D and has split triggers which then again made it more desirable and expensive.

/Tom

[JohnL]

Never popular among Orchestra players?
The entire Cleveland Orchestra trombone section once played “Benge” horns back in the 70’s. European majors also sported the brand. Plenty of Elkhorn Holtons inserted into Bach-heavy sections also.
Some of the us old farts are still around to give testimony to what existed then.

That said, I totally agree with the out of fashion today observations.

Yes, they showed up in the hands of some well-known players, but they were uncommon enough that their presence in a section was notable.

[martinfan]

Although I am not in the market for another trombone, every day I lament that I did not purchase a Holton TR100 when I had the chance. Why? My brass instructor in college was not overly impressed with its sound. That aside, I will say that it had the nicest, most comfortable feel that even my beloved Conn 88H and Martin Imperial lack.

[Macbone1]

Although I am not in the market for another trombone, every day I lament that I did not purchase a Holton TR100 when I had the chance. Why? My brass instructor in college was not overly impressed with its sound. That aside, I will say that it had the nicest, most comfortable feel that even my beloved Conn 88H and Martin Imperial lack.

I get it, I do. I've had 2 small bore Holtons and the tone just wasn't very warm. SO much fun to play though. I suppose one could warm the tone a bit with the right mouthpiece.

[martinfan]

Tone WAS the kicker. My college brass instructor commented that the TR100 had a rather bland, unfocused sound. Never did I think about the mouthpiece. My 88H came with the 'official' Remington Mouthpiece and that is what I use. I have never been able to find a genuine Remington small shank mouthpiece for my Martin so I use a Bach 6 1/2 AL and also for my Yamaha YEP321.

[BrassSection]

Can’t chime in on Holton trombones, I’ve never played one, but I can vouch for my Holton ST304 Maynard Ferguson model trumpet, and my daughter’s Holton French Horn. I enjoy my trumpet, and my professional “Every horn I own is a Bach” trumpet buddy was quite impressed with it. His first comment was “The valves feel like Bach valves”, followed by “Wow, that’s a free blowing horn that would be great for a lead horn and a jazz horn and hitting the high notes”! Daughter loves her double Holton French horn, she doesn’t want to try any other horn.

[Macbone1]

Can’t chime in on Holton trombones, I’ve never played one, but I can vouch for my Holton ST304 Maynard Ferguson model trumpet, and my daughter’s Holton French Horn. I enjoy my trumpet, and my professional “Every horn I own is a Bach” trumpet buddy was quite impressed with it. His first comment was “The valves feel like Bach valves”, followed by “Wow, that’s a free blowing horn that would be great for a lead horn and a jazz horn and hitting the high notes”! Daughter loves her double Holton French horn, she doesn’t want to try any other horn.

Yes, I noodle on a cornet regularly but don't know why the MF trumpet doesn't sell better. Too "jazzy" sounding for all the wannabe Edward Tarrs and Maurice Andres out there? I never knew any hornist who didn't love their Holton.

I liked the old Holton trombones because they were designed to not need a counterweight - a sign of quality and of lightweight construction. My 1939 65 was light as a feather.

[JohnL]

...don't know why the MF trumpet doesn't sell better.

Maynard is a very polarizing figure. There are a lot of people (including many in the music education field) who REALLY don't like his style. When I was in school, they'd actively discourage their students from listening to his stuff or playing a "Maynard" tune themselves, and heaven help the poor kid who actually showed up to rehearsal with a trumpet that had Maynard's name on it.

[BrassSection]

Agree Maynard as a person was not a perfect example to follow, but you also have to separate the horn from the name sake. And not a lot of people know he did play some complicated orchestra music in his early years from what I’ve heard. The guy that sits beside my professional trumpet buddy won’t play a Bach, and has tried various MF trumpets and didn’t like any of them. It works for me and everything I play, and I’ve played worse horns and I’m not really a trumpet player. My playing is improve contemporary Christian music, and when on trumpet for brass ensembles usually first trumpet for Christmas carols, traditional Easter hymns, and various patriotic songs. If I had my choice of playing I’d be 75% euph, 20% trombone, 4% combined French horn and tuba, and 1% trumpet.

[Trombo]

Holton TR-150 (s/n 618###) in good condition for $1450 is this a good deal?
Your thoughts.

[hyperbolica]

Holton TR-150 (s/n 618###) in good condition for $1450 is this a good deal?
Your thoughts.

You could probably get a 150 much cheaper if you're patient and look around. That would be a good price for an Elkhart 88h, and the 150 probably plays almost as well. I think the point of this thread is that you can get a nice playing Holton for less than other brands (unless its a 169 or 185).

[Trombo]

Thanks

[CarlVicVogel]

The Tr-181 is still being produced, even if in small numbers. Coming out of the Bach plant in Elkhart IN.

My TR-181 has a great slide and fabulous workmanship. It is sooo easy to play, especially for someone coming from a Bach 42BO.

CarlVicVogel

[2bobone]

I owned a Holton 169 bass with the Kleinhammer removable 2nd valve and "Glanz Bar" trigger. I recently ran across an old brass quintet recording in which I used that horn. It made me wonder why I sold it to Ted Griffith, the former bass trombonist with the Baltimore Symphony who was moving to The Montreal Symphony at the time. It was a beautiful sounding horn and I had no negative feelings about the Glanz Bar trigger setup, either ! Anyone still have one in its original setup ?

[Neo Bri]

I have a student with a Holton with a Glantz bar, but it's not the removeable setup. He hasn't altered it.

[WGWTR180]

I have a student with a Holton with a Glantz bar, but it's not the removeable setup. He hasn't altered it.

Your student must be playing on a TR 180. The above reference to the "glantz bar" I'm guessing was the earlier setup with the side by side levers and NOT a Glantz bar that was found on the 180s. The removable second valve was the optional plug in valve offer on the 169s and 185s.

[imsevimse]

I owned a Holton 169 bass with the Kleinhammer removable 2nd valve and "Glanz Bar" trigger. I recently ran across an old brass quintet recording in which I used that horn. It made me wonder why I sold it to Ted Griffith, the former bass trombonist with the Baltimore Symphony who was moving to The Montreal Symphony at the time. It was a beautiful sounding horn and I had no negative feelings about the Glanz Bar trigger setup, either ! Anyone still have one in its original setup ?

Was it a removable attatchment with the Glanz-bar on a 169? I have never heard about such thing. My slot in valv for my TR185 has side by side levers.

/Tom

[2bobone]

Different comments about my former Holton 169 bass trombone got me to scratching my head. Was I having a "senior moment" or did I correctly recall the horn having a Kleinhammer detachable valve AND a Glantz Bar ? I'm sure that I have only ever owned one Holton bass trombone. I'm sure it was a Model 169. I'm sure it had the Kleinhammer detachable valve. I'm sure it had a Glantz Bar. It was, therefore, all incorporated into the same horn. So, I can hopefully conclude that my senior moment didn't really happen ! I recall that the rod that actuated the remote valve was actually TWO rods that slid through a clamp that was centrally secured with a thumb-screw. That arrangement allowed for adjustment of the trigger position. There was a nylon [?] block that slid up the "E" trigger shaft whenever you positioned your thumb fully to the left side of the Glantz Bar and actuated the remote valve. It did not move when your thumb was to the right of the bar --- in that case only the "F" valve was actuated. The remote trigger module clamped to the main bell brace. The removeable valve was tuned in "E". If anyone has any good photos of the Glantz Bar I'd certainly appreciate viewing it again. My search yielded no results. Personally, I think that that trigger arrangement has been badly maligned. It certainly worked well for me --- but then again --- I think that the King Duo Gravis stacked triggers are great, too ! The ubiquitous "split trigger" arrangement on most bass trombones available today still makes me wonder why we would remove the support of one of our strongest fingers to operate a valve instead of helping to support one of the most ungainly instruments ever devised by man.

[WGWTR180]

Here’s a stock TR 180

[hornbuilder]

Google is your friend

[WGWTR180]

Different comments about my former Holton 169 bass trombone got me to scratching my head. Was I having a "senior moment" or did I correctly recall the horn having a Kleinhammer detachable valve AND a Glantz Bar ? I'm sure that I have only ever owned one Holton bass trombone. I'm sure it was a Model 169. I'm sure it had the Kleinhammer detachable valve. I'm sure it had a Glantz Bar. It was, therefore, all incorporated into the same horn. So, I can hopefully conclude that my senior moment didn't really happen ! I recall that the rod that actuated the remote valve was actually TWO rods that slid through a clamp that was centrally secured with a thumb-screw. That arrangement allowed for adjustment of the trigger position. There was a nylon [?] block that slid up the "E" trigger shaft whenever you positioned your thumb fully to the left side of the Glantz Bar and actuated the remote valve. It did not move when your thumb was to the right of the bar --- in that case only the "F" valve was actuated. The remote trigger module clamped to the main bell brace. The removeable valve was tuned in "E". If anyone has any good photos of the Glantz Bar I'd certainly appreciate viewing it again. My search yielded no results. Personally, I think that that trigger arrangement has been badly maligned. It certainly worked well for me --- but then again --- I think that the King Duo Gravis stacked triggers are great, too ! The ubiquitous "split trigger" arrangement on most bass trombones available today still makes me wonder why we would remove the support of one of our strongest fingers to operate a valve instead of helping to support one of the most ungainly instruments ever devised by man.

No one disputed your detachable valve. As I said it was an option on the 185 and 169 models. What I thought was interesting was the Glantz Bar that you mentioned. There was something like a Glantz Bar that was on earlier Holton models HOWEVER yours could have had one. Holton did bizarre things. I attached a pic here on the thread. It took 5 seconds googling Holton TR 180 to find one with a true Glantz Bar.

[dbwhitaker]

BrassArk didn't get the memo about Holtons being inexpensive. They currently have a TR-185 with the plugin second valve listed for $4400. http://www.brassark.com/sale/

[2bobone]

I Googled "Holton Model 169 bass trombone / Glantz Bar" and got nothing ! My trombone "chops" are better than my computer "chops" ! Thanks to everyone who helped remind me of what that contraption looked like !

[Macbone1]

......Personally, I think that that trigger arrangement has been badly maligned. It certainly worked well for me --- but then again --- I think that the King Duo Gravis stacked triggers are great, too ! The ubiquitous "split trigger" arrangement on most bass trombones available today still makes me wonder why we would remove the support of one of our strongest fingers to operate a valve instead of helping to support one of the most ungainly instruments ever devised by man.
[/quote]

I'll take another moment to climb up on my soapbox - all trombones with left hand valves NEED to have the bell brace as part of the grip! Would eliminate the need for all the aftermarket grip aids etc. "Bullet braces" are just false bell braces. I realize the "free" left hand trigger grip probably started with the Conn 88H. At least King and Olds and Reynolds etc kept the bell brace grip going for a while

[WGWTR180]

......Personally, I think that that trigger arrangement has been badly maligned. It certainly worked well for me --- but then again --- I think that the King Duo Gravis stacked triggers are great, too ! The ubiquitous "split trigger" arrangement on most bass trombones available today still makes me wonder why we would remove the support of one of our strongest fingers to operate a valve instead of helping to support one of the most ungainly instruments ever devised by man.

I'll take another moment to climb up on my soapbox - all trombones with left hand valves NEED to have the bell brace as part of the grip! Would eliminate the need for all the aftermarket grip aids etc. "Bullet braces" are just false bell braces. I realize the "free" left hand trigger grip probably started with the Conn 88H. At least King and Olds and Reynolds etc kept the bell brace grip going for a while
[/quote]

Possibly. I’ve had zero issues holding my Holton bass trombones. Any modern instrument I’ve tried is too heavy and/or unbalanced and some kind of aid would be necessary long term.

[tbonesullivan]

I'll take another moment to climb up on my soapbox - all trombones with left hand valves NEED to have the bell brace as part of the grip! Would eliminate the need for all the aftermarket grip aids etc. "Bullet braces" are just false bell braces. I realize the "free" left hand trigger grip probably started with the Conn 88H. At least King and Olds and Reynolds etc kept the bell brace grip going for a while

Yes, and no. I really don't like how the King levers are set up, with the lower pivot point. I don't find it comfortable, and the linkage also needs to seriously be redesigned. With the brace there, you end up only using the end joint of your thumb to actuate the valve, instead of having your entire thumb free as with other designs. It's a much more natural movement to the linkage as well, as opposed to the King style which has a lower pivot, and feels like it's trying to twist your thumb.

I also don't know if it's just an issue of hand size or strength, but I have never had any trouble holding a trombone with just an F-attachment. With a Bass I use the "Yeo grip", but only if I am actually using the second valve, which for a community orchestra player comes about only a few times a year.

[Macbone1]

" also don't know if it's just an issue of hand size or strength, but I have never had any trouble holding a trombone with just an F-attachment. With a Bass I use the "Yeo grip", but only if I am actually using the second valve, which for a community orchestra player comes about only a few times a year."

I actually do have an open mind about this.
I tried an 8B once and could hardly manage it at all, the triggers configuration was so un-ergonomic.

[WGWTR180]

" also don't know if it's just an issue of hand size or strength, but I have never had any trouble holding a trombone with just an F-attachment. With a Bass I use the "Yeo grip", but only if I am actually using the second valve, which for a community orchestra player comes about only a few times a year."

I actually do have an open mind about this.
I tried an 8B once and could hardly manage it at all, the triggers configuration was so un-ergonomic.

Kings are the worst.

[tbonesullivan]

I actually do have an open mind about this.
I tried an 8B once and could hardly manage it at all, the triggers configuration was so un-ergonomic.

I honestly.. have all Yamaha bass trombones because my hand agrees with the ergonomics and feel so well. I love the geometry of the paddle. Still have no idea why they didn't just go with a ball joint at both ends of the F-attachment lever, and instead used two hinge joints at right angles. But, they have a great feel, for me at least.

King 8B and Benge 290s I tried were not to my liking in terms of ergonomics.

[pjanda1]

The TR-156 screw bell that will leave my porch to its new home tomorrow morning really opened my eyes. All my trombone testing time is occupied with old Conns and my new M&W. But, that 156 is so good that I can't imagine there aren't 150s and 158s that are about as good as anything else for extremely reasonable prices. I enjoyed that horn more than any Bach 42 I've played (more core, more feedback, more focus), and most everything but vintage Conns. The now-sold 156 can get MUCH louder than either of my 8Hs before things start to come apart. As I've written elsewhere, it seems to have been made for long shank Schilke mouthpieces, both because they fit just right and it plays GREAT with them.

A local guy I sometimes sit next to in a big band sounds great on lead on his Holton (65 or 67, whichever the bigger one is). My brother has a Galaxy cornet that he sounds great on, and Galaxy trombones--even really clean ones--go cheap on ebay. I'd also love to work my way through those options, mainly out of curiosity.

Paul

[jhousdan]

My TR-181 was expensive enough... but I'm sure Woodwind/Brasswind got their cut, which jacked the price up.

I played a TR-181 for just over 5 years until I picked up my Yamaha 613G. It was a fantastic horn in every respect except for the plastic ball joints on the rotors. They were quiet, but they were also prone to breakage, and the replacement ball joints never seemed to work as well (on my first set of replacements, the joints for my second valve were just slightly out of tolerance, if I tried to push the trigger down too fast, the valve would freeze in place). I always wonder what might have been if perhaps I'd been able to replace the plastic linkages with metal ones.

Another bass player in my college studio also played a 181, but his was an older vintage... it still had the small Holton "nickel" counterweight, which evidently had been done away with by the time I got mine (S/N #642724).

The horn played great, and I enjoyed that I could reconfigure the tuning combinations with the tuning slide extension. I regret having sold it and if I encounter another in the wild, I might just pick it up.

[Retrobone]

I own two great Holtons, a 1975 TR-150, and a 1980 TR-180.
Both are fabulous trombones actually. I know the later ones were not on the level of the earlier models. But I love the sound of these older Holtons. A bit old-fashioned perhaps, but I like that.
My very first large-bore trombone was a TR-150, which my dad bought for me when I was 16. That's what I had when I went to study trombone full-time, a year later. I played my first professional gigs on it but sold it to finance an 88H which everyone was playing at that time in Melbourne. I always kept a soft spot for that Holton trombone, so when a similar vintage 1975 150 popped up last year for only 500 euros on Marktplaats (the Dutch version of Ebay), I snapped it up. Finally this week I decided to practice on it exclusively. All I can say is.... what a great trombone! The only complaint is that it's slightly low in pitch. We play at a442 here and it's just getting up to pitch with the tuning slide right in. Back to work this week so I'll test it out in the orchestra. Very responsive, with clear sound and consistent intonation up the harmonics. Loads of character! This is the model that Rudolf Josel played in the Vienna Phil for years. Red brass bell, nickel silver slide, with brass crook.

[jph]

Re Retrobone: A Big Thumbs Up!

[drbucher]

The Holton 159 is Jay Friedman's 156 with an f attachment, produced after Holton cancelled his contract, both advertised without his name in a Holton Trombones brochure I have, the relationship between them clear. An earlier 156 advertising sheet l have mentions him as a co-designer.
I have both, with the strange 0.547/0.559 slide. My 156 has an 8.5" bell, the 159 a 9". Aside from that difference and the f attachment, they are the same. Slides and bell sections are interchangeable. Holton most likely could not afford to pay Jay on the 156 with all its custom parts in the CSO and put on an f attachment. The case for an f attachment probably became more economical after Holton cancelled his contract. Jay thought Holton had stolen his ideas (his email to me March 2011), giving up the 156 in protest. Very unfortunate. The 159 could have become a very popular model, competing even today.
The 156 probably compensated for the limitations of Jay's custom 1958 Schilke 51B mouthpiece, made by Mr. Schilke himself when Jay was a student, used by him for 25 years. Perhaps if he had been using a bigger mouthpiece in the early 1970's, the 156 may never have come into existence, or been designed differently.