Trombone hand support/straps

TromboneWill · Post by **TromboneWill** » Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:51 pm

Hello all!

I've been considering getting a hand support for my bass trombone, but I'm not sure which ones to go for, does anyone here have experience with the different kinds of supports? Bullet braces and the Rath hand support seem to be the ones I've found in most place, as well as some of those hook like things that go around your hand as well.

Does anyone have experience with hand supports on a bass trombone? What would you recommend?

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:11 pm

viewtopic.php?p=214680#p214680

viewtopic.php?p=169182#p169182

viewtopic.php?p=103986&hilit=Clebsch#p103986

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:44 pm

I just got the Osmun leather strap for my awkward-to-hold old Edwards bass (whut up with that 2nd trigger?!?). Works great. Shout-out to Aiden for his video showing how to use it properly.

*Edited typo

Crazy4Tbone86 · Post by **Crazy4Tbone86** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:20 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:44 pm I just got the Osmun leather strap for my awkward-to-hold old Edwards bass (whut up with that 2nd trigger?!?). Works great. Shout-out to Aiden for his video sitting how to use it properly.

Harrison,

I am convinced that the majority of bass trombone manufacturers have never consulted an actual bass trombonist when they design that second valve lever…….even though I know it is not true. Every time I purchase a bass trombone (which is not often), I always plan to take that lever off and bend it to a more ergonomic position. Sometimes it takes 5 or 6 times to get it somewhat comfortable and functional.

My recommendation is to get the levers at the best possible setting first, before investigating hand support options. It is kind of like…..take care of your cavities before looking into teeth whitening options.

On the reverse side, I picked up a few horns at a show this past spring that fit my hand and grip very well. At least that is an indication that manufacturers are taking some ergonomics into consideration.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:19 am

It's too bad because ergonomically, the Yamaha 830 is just about perfect for me. That horn felt balanced and great in the hands.

The Edwards bass needs that strap just to help use the trigger

ssking2b · Post by **ssking2b** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:27 pm

Try the NeoTech Trombone hand grip. I use it and so do 3 of my students. It works well!

https://www.amazon.com/Neotech-5131001- ... r=8-2&th=1

TromboneWill · Post by **TromboneWill** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:01 pm

I've heard that those can sometimes interfere with the 2nd trigger on bass trombones, so I'm a bit skeptical to buy one of them, but I'm currently working with my local music school to see if I can try some different supports and straps out.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:14 pm

The Yam hand strap is about $15.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:41 pm

For first timers, and sometimes overall, I recommend the Leather Specialties strap. It works on basically every horn, doesn't get in the way of the 2nd valve (Get-A-Grip and the Neotech), and is sometimes just the best option overall.

I use 5 or 6 different grip aids on different horns, they all have their places.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:20 am

(the Osmun strap is a rebranded leather specialities, FWIW. Fits everything)

Driswood · Post by **Driswood** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:06 am

I have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands, so I need support on any horn. I use two - the Neotech Grip and the Ax Handle from Instrument Innovations.
I use the Neotech on my Conn 6H. It takes the strain off my joints in my hand and wrist. Makes playing very comfortable. The only issue in the beginning was there is a learning curve for getting my left hand in and out to work mutes. It causes no problem now.
My second horn is a Yamaha YSL-684, and it doesn’t work on this one. The linkage comes from underneath, and my knuckle on my thumb interferes with the action when using the Neotech. For this one I use the Ax Handle. It keeps my thumb out of the way, and gives me great support for holding the instrument.
I think it depends on your ergonomics and your particular instrument. It’s like a mouthpiece - there is no one size fits all.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:54 am

The Jonathan Pippen grip is similar to the GAG but thinner/flatter. I found it easier to shape and it fits under the 2nd valve lever better than my GAG. Also comes in a nice selection of colours which helps a bit with remembering to take it with you when you’re packing up.

TheBoneRanger · Post by **TheBoneRanger** » Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:11 am

I've used the Greenhoe rest bar on most of my trombones for many years. Some soldered on, others just with the hose clamp. Fits me well.

I think the supports on the market are very personal, given differing hand sizes, shapes and physiques in general. You just need to try a few things to see what floats your boat.

Interestingly, my latest custom Bach is not happy when the Greenhoe rest bar is attached, it seems to really kill the resonance and tighten up the horn. Must be a node point or something, but I've never struck it with any other horn. Thankfully it's not too heavy, so I can make do until I find another alternative.

Cmillar · Post by **Cmillar** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:40 pm

If hand straps/grips are too awkward, buy some 'tennis grip tape wrap'.

That stuff gives you a good grip and you don't have to tense your muscles.

Good for cold and hot weather, and you can keep a natural hand position. Build up the grip if you need more thickness for your hand.

I find that Just using a single wrap in the area I actually grip does the trick. Just a bit on the loser slide grip area to keep the horn from slipping around.

Choice of colors too if you're so inclined!

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:20 pm

For the Leather Specialities Strap -- over the back of the hand or over the knuckles?

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:55 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:20 pm For the Leather Specialities Strap -- over the back of the hand or over the knuckles?

Over the back of the hand.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:17 pm

Yeah I saw your video, but I figured out that if you made it a little tight, it goes over the top of your knuckles and supports nearly all the weight. The hand position is not great though.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:10 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:17 pm Yeah I saw your video, but I figured out that if you made it a little tight, it goes over the top of your knuckles and supports nearly all the weight. The hand position is not great though.

I find that super uncomfortable myself. Over the back of the hand is very comfy.

jph · Post by **jph** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:20 am

The Edwards Bullet Brace. It will require some monitoring for tightness, here or there, but not heavy maintenance. It’s removable/portable. No problems with the flap trigger as the brace can be adjusted.

Major downside is that it will, in most situations, render your “hard, preformed case”, if you have one, unusable as the brace will need accomodation. Thus, I use a padded gig bag with the Bass when I am actively playing the horn.

With the Bullet Brace your thumb is placed over the brace to activate the trigger. Be advised that this may make it prohibitive for folks with small hands (and thumbs)! See the Edwards site for more into, video.

Most recently used it with an old tanker vintage Elkhorn TR181 independent.

rivertrombone9 · Post by **rivertrombone9** » Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:11 pm

Hi all!
I'm looking for a Leather Specialties or Osmun strap as recommended earlier in this thread, but can't seem to find a supply source for either.

Does anyone have any leads on where to purchase one in the US?

Appreciate any help!

Post by **BGuttman** » Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:19 pm

Hickey's:
https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... pports.php

AtomicClock · Post by **AtomicClock** » Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:33 pm

The Leather Specialties website predicts "Orders will resume early 2024". The wise move might be to wait a few more weeks.

musicofnote · Post by **musicofnote** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:03 am

Posting this again - my description of my trials with various hand supports for my Yamaha 822G:

https://5d832781b3df5.site123.me/trombone-braces

To cut to the chase, I've been using the NeoTech for several years now and it works just great.

ghmerrill · Post by **ghmerrill** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:03 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:19 pm Hickey's:
https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... pports.php

Maybe. Last time I tried, they cancelled the order because they didn't have them and couldn't get them. I see that Leather Specialties' web site is still up -- but they still also have the page that says "We will not be taking new orders after Oct 1st." You can add a strap to your cart, but when you try to check out you're told "This store isn't set up to receive orders yet."

So I guess I'll try again -- but call Hickey's first to see what the situation is.

ghmerrill · Post by **ghmerrill** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:24 am

I just talked to Hickey's. The lady said that they DO have "a couple" of these and that they're "new stock". It appears that the sizing has been changed and that Leather Specialities has gone to a "one size" approach. The Hickey's listing says "small black," but with a note that "This model formerly labeled as a "bass trombone strap," but now used for all trombones. It is mostly identical to the earlier tenor trombone strap, only slightly wider."

I just ordered one. Good luck to you. I'm not entirely sure what I'll be getting, but have always found Hickey's to be dependable.

AtomicClock · Post by **AtomicClock** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:32 am

If it arrives, I'd appreciate some measurements. I want to compare to mine, which was "one size" twenty years ago, but much too small.

ghmerrill · Post by **ghmerrill** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:42 am

Yeah, I'm a little concerned that "size" may be ambiguous between size of instrument and size of hand, and it's not clear how much of the current description is left over from a previous one. I do have fairly small hands, so perhaps it will work in any event.

rivertrombone9 · Post by **rivertrombone9** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:47 am

Thanks so much for all these replies! I also just ordered a small one from Hickey's -- happy to post photos and sizing info once it arrives as well!

AtomicClock · Post by **AtomicClock** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:13 am

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:33 pm The Leather Specialties website predicts "Orders will resume early 2024". The wise move might be to wait a few more weeks.

They've resumed. According to a report on David Werden's forum:
https://www.dwerden.com/forum/forum/eup ... post141851

I got an email this morning from Tom Black at LSCOguard.com. He said it’s true that for the past year they've been really backed up but they're pretty much caught up now and back on individual customer work starting today.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:15 am

I have two straps from Hickey's coming in today.

ghmerrill · Post by **ghmerrill** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:33 am

I actually got one a few weeks ago from Hickey's after checking that they had new stock. I'm trying to get used to using it, but think I will stick with my bullet brace the way I have it set up on my bass and with the counter weight now. But I may try it out on my little Olds.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:12 pm

It takes a bit of getting used to.

But the other night I forgot my Pip grip at home, and I could barely hold my double trigger.

ssking2b · Post by **ssking2b** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:30 pm

One of my three bass trombones has an issue with the second valve and the neo Tag hand grip. It was a simple fix. I took an all scratched it across the area where the problem was, and then took a file and filed off some of the curled grip along the scratch I made that was bumping the paddle until it was free and no longer Bumping. Problem solved.

Like our paddle set ups, even some of the things we use to help us hold. The horn may need some slight adjustment or modification when we put them on. That is no reason to forgo that device.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:43 pm

Hmm... got my new straps and they are much shorter than my 2017~ish one. They'll still work on a wide slide, but just barely.

GabrielRice · Post by **GabrielRice** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:50 am

Give that feedback to Hickey's. Leather Specialties is a small family-owned company, and they've been quite responsive to customer request in the past. The reason they've been backed up is that the father retired; his son has taken over and moved the facility.

hiktro · Post by **hiktro** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:36 am

I would recommend the hand support imported from Poland

dbwhitaker · Post by **dbwhitaker** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:54 am

hiktro wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:36 am I would recommend the hand support imported from Poland

What's the name of that hand support? Where can it be purchased?

hiktro · Post by **hiktro** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:07 am

I don't know the name of the hand support, but you can contact Paweł Wilk on Facebook. You can purchase from him.

RoscoTrombone · Post by **RoscoTrombone** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:10 pm

Can you be more specific please? There are lots of Pawel Wilks on Facebook...

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:25 pm

RoscoTrombone wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:10 pm Can you be more specific please? There are lots of Pawel Wilks on Facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000949698442

RoscoTrombone · Post by **RoscoTrombone** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:32 pm

Thanks Aiden. I recently got the Leather Specialties hand strap from Thomann - they said it was medium length - but it was ridiculously short so it went back.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:41 pm

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:50 am Give that feedback to Hickey's. Leather Specialties is a small family-owned company, and they've been quite responsive to customer request in the past. The reason they've been backed up is that the father retired; his son has taken over and moved the facility.

I sent an email to Hickey's.

dbwhitaker · Post by **dbwhitaker** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:40 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:25 pm
RoscoTrombone wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:10 pm Can you be more specific please? There are lots of Pawel Wilks on Facebook...
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000949698442

I communicated with Pawel using this link (kindly provided to me by hiktro) https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/uchwyt-racz ... IEIOx.html (with an assist from Google Translate). I ordered one -- it will be interesting to see how long it takes to arrive in California and whether it works for me.

bassclef · Post by **bassclef** » Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:05 pm

I've been using the left hand LSCO grips for decades. Now that they're starting to become available again, I got a couple post-transition ones to go on some recent horn acquisitions.

I am not certain they're actually made out of leather anymore. If anything, they're now that bonded leather product with a stamped texture like you'd see on car seats . Perhaps they're now "genuine leather" which is an industry term for something which contains the bare minimum % of a natural hide material which still allows you to legally use the word "leather".

The old ones were a full grain hide product. I have a couple which have been on horns I've been using since undergrad in the late 1990's and, aside from some natural patina from skin oils, they seem like they've easily got another 20-30 years in them before they'll wear out and need replaced. Whenever I take them off for yearly cleanings, I'd hit them with a little leather cleaner & conditioner and that seemed to always keep them supple and durable.

The pictures they recently added to their website are not representative of the products they sell now. To attempt to illustrate all of this, I have attached a photo below of the same size/model purchased before the founder retired (right) and after (left). I can say however that the stitching work and the thread on the new ones does appear to be better.

In terms of durability, I suppose only time with the new versions will tell if this is going to be a negative change, or not.

LSCO_Grips.jpg

RoscoTrombone · Post by **RoscoTrombone** » Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:22 pm

I communicated with Pawel using this link (kindly provided to me by hiktro) https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/uchwyt-racz ... IEIOx.html (with an assist from Google Translate). I ordered one -- it will be interesting to see how long it takes to arrive in California and whether it works for me.

Thanks, I got in touch with Pawel as well but due to the brace which connects the Gb valve to the main brace on my Rath, it would have to be positioned by the bell which is too far away.

It looks a really great design as well and a really good price. Back to the drawing board!