TromboneChat

After about 10 year layoff I bought a 1929 Conn 78h. Do I need a special shank small bore mouthpiece for it or is my yamaha 48 ok?
Tried to tune to tuner and it was flat with tuning slide most of the way in.
Of course it could my lack of chops and wind.

How far into the receiver does the mouthpiece go? Insertion depth should be about one inch.

Yep. Measures right at 1 inch.
Thanks.

Your pitch should rise as you get back into better shape.

That's a decent mouthpiece with that horn. If you pull the slide all the way in, does it come into tune?
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No, even with the slide locked in first position it's still a couple cents flat. Close but not perfect. I have a 7c coming but I really like the way the yamaha 48 sounds with that horn. Oh well practice. Practice practice will most likely be the cure.

Being a 1929 it could be strange tuning.

Did you check for leaks or bad fit or something lodged in the instrument? If it came from Doug Bert, he would have mentioned if there were something weird about it.

Low Pitch around the turn of the 20th Century was a bit under A=440 (more like A=435). A Low Pitch instrument should be tunable to A=440, but some are not. I have an old G-bass with this problem.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:25 pm Did you check for leaks or bad fit or something lodged in the instrument? If it came from Doug Bert, he would have mentioned if there were something weird about it.

Yeah, I trust him 100%
Nothing in there. No leaks.

Many horns from that era are pitched lower than A=440. That pitch didn't become standard until mid-century, or thereabouts. That's probably the issue.

Jim Scott

Well shoot. Guess I'll just push the tuning slide all the way in and deal with it.

It might have "LP" stamped somewhere, for Low Pitch.

I've searched and don't see that.
On the bell where it joins the slide is the model# 78H with the number 5 above it.
The slide has the serial number on both parts.
Under the serial number on the outer slide is P 27. Over the serial number is the model 78H.

Ok, set A on my tuner to 435 and the 1st pos. Bb shows in tune with tuning slide all the way in.
Set A on my tuner to 432 and 1st pos. Bb shows in tune with tuning slide pulled out a little over half an inch.

When it was made there may have been two tuning slides available, one for high pitch and one for low pitch.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:15 pm When it was made there may have been two tuning slides available, one for high pitch and one for low pitch.

The high pitch slide would have been WAY too short. High pitch was A=465 or so.

Beat option for OP is to have the tuning slide shortened, maybe 3/4" (18 mm)

Man, I hate to do anything to the horn. It sounds beautiful just like it is even with me playing it.

I have a Vega (made in Boston) with two tuning slides. The few times I've played it I used the high pitch slide and it was fine.

I played a 1928 78H for ywars and had NO tuning problems at all

I've searched as far as I could on the Internet and couldn't find anything about the 78H having a LP or HP version. No markings on my horn to indicate that either. All the serial number and model number stampings on the horn match up so it's not a frankenbone.
No space in the case for a second tuning slide.
Maybe it's just me...

Ok, the number on the tuning slide and the bell where the tuning slide goes in is 8L.
Not sure what that means. Upside down it looks like 78.

One more interesting(?) fact
I bought a pro tek case to put the horn in. Slide won't fit. Too long.
I sure can pick 'em.

Have someone else try it. If it's around 435 for everyone, trim it. (And if it's just you, then you'll know that too.)

I don't think conn was stilling doing HP & LP that late.
I have a 20s 78h and it plays fine with a Bach 6 1/2 or stork T1, tuning slide out an inch or so. I have an original Conn Clarke mouthpiece, that would have been paired with the horn at the time, and it's just a tiny bit shallower than a Bach 6 1/2. The stems to those are a little weird though...if anything the Conn Clarke is further out than a modern mouthpiece, which would make it even more flat.
I also have a Conn 4h and that really does need a small mouthpiece to play at pitch, like a 11c or smaller.
I agree worth getting somebody else to play it.
I would also try something quite small like a Bach 12c just to see what happens.

I have a 7c ordered

I have a 1926 Conn 78h and it tunes normally compared to a modern instrument. The hand slide is definitely on the long side. The 7C may make the difference you need. Good luck.

cb56 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 1:43 pm No, even with the slide locked in first position it's still a couple cents flat. Close but not perfect. I have a 7c coming but I really like the way the yamaha 48 sounds with that horn. Oh well practice. Practice practice will most likely be the cure.

If it's that close, I doubt it was built as LP. I'd hesitate to cut the horn if it's that close. My money (short of a crack or leak in the horn) would be on a chop issue that might go away over time.

I've had and played a few late 20s Conn trombones of various sizes. None have had pitch problems or needed special mouthpieces. I just sold a 78H bell section from that era and still have the slide. I've got a '26 76H and a '29 24H in my regular rotation. I'd strongly recommend against modifications until you are sure you know what the problem is.

Paul

Right. I'm not going to do any modifications to it.

My Bach 7c came today and I'm hooked.
A bit brighter edgier tone but my range and flexibility are much better.
Since I'm not an orchestral player and more of a jazz player I'm ok with that.
Horn still plays a bit flat.

Congrats, Give yourself some time

I always had problems with those old Conns playing just a bit flat as well. Could just about make them work. At one time i had a silver plated 78H from the late 20s I think and a 78H special with an 8.75” yellow brass bell. Played great with a gorgeous sound, but if the group played at 442, they did not work.

Funny thing is I grew up playing Olds horns with bach mouthpieces Ambassador then Super. All played flat that way. Good for learning alternate positions.

I've now tried a yamaha 48, bach 7c and benge 12c with the 78h. No change except for tone gets thinner the smaller I go. Tone wise I like the 7c best. Funny thing is my high Bb (when I can play it) is sharp but middle and low Bb are flat.

cb56 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 6:32 pm Well shoot. Guess I'll just push the tuning slide all the way in and deal with it.

Or pull out, and call it a trombone in A.