TromboneChat

…with complete disassembly?

Never. I clean individual part of the instrument but never submerse it in water.

Monthly, on the first of each month. At least, for the horns I've been playing that month. They get a full bath and cleaning inside and out. I'm not into turning my horns into petri dishes for biology experiments.

I've got several horns, so it's like changing the oil on a car - after a certain amount of usage. The bass is sensitive to getting stuff in the valves, so I clean the slide more often. Same is true for all horns, but I'm more paranoid about getting even water in the bass valves. Snake/rod as appropriate. Cheese cloth on the rod, and Dawn on the snake. I don't use the bathtub, I use a hose in the shower that puts full pressure in the slide tube. If I look down the top slide and don't like what I see, I wash it. I've got the shower right next to my instrument area, so it's easy to step in and just do it.

Cleaning the euphonium or tuba is a different issue, and takes more time and effort. Although I've heard a lot of tuba people say they don't wash at all (the tuba that is). All my worst cleaning stories come from tubas - dead mice, slime, green flakes, visible buildup... Can't even imagine what techs who clean school horns all day come across...

A routine bath does not involve things like disassembling a valve. You can soak an F-rotor, flush, and relube but if you find it needs disassembly it's Tech Time. I don't have a regular schedule for soak baths; just when it strikes my fancy.

I don't typically bathe valve sections. Slides, sure.

Slides get bathed every two weeks or so. For sure.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:25 pm A routine bath does not involve things like disassembling a valve. You can soak an F-rotor, flush, and relube but if you find it needs disassembly it's Tech Time. I don't have a regular schedule for soak baths; just when it strikes my fancy.

Yikes! Do you really place your entire bell section under water while the valve section is assembled? That is something I do not recommend. That will just encourage faster accumulation of mineral deposits in all the nooks and crannies of the valve.

I wouldn't submerge the slide, either. The cork barrels definitely don't need water getting in them, especially if there is felt in there. You can funnel water through the tubes.

I tend to focus on the mouthpiece side of the slide and clean that on a somewhat regular basis, every month or so. That's where the 'ol bodily fluids will do the most damage over time. I also try to get each horn to a professional cleaning every year.

I get my horns professionally cleaned once a year. I clean out my slide once a month & I bathe my entire trombone every 3 months. This seems to work for me.

I use this on mine about once a week, depending on the amount of playing.
I like it because it`s long enough to clean the entire outer slide too
https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... snake-.php

I use the brass saver through my inner slide every time I lube it. Even with brushing teeth and rinsing etc it's amazing how fast gunk builds up.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:00 am I use the brass saver through my inner slide every time I lube it. Even with brushing teeth and rinsing etc it's amazing how fast gunk builds up.

Brass Saver through inner AND outer slides (after wiping all old lube off outer surfaces of inner slides).

More often than I want and less often than I should.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:55 am

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:00 am I use the brass saver through my inner slide every time I lube it. Even with brushing teeth and rinsing etc it's amazing how fast gunk builds up.

Brass Saver through inner AND outer slides (after wiping all old lube off outer surfaces of inner slides).

For the outers I use either the SOM swabs or a rod and cheese cloth to avoid gumming up the Brass Savr brush. I do usually run it through once to get stuff out of the crook though.

I rinse out slides every week or two. Maybe one a month for a horn I rarely play.

Sometimes I just do a quick flush, Or I pour in white vinegar and Dawn soap. Push a snake though and maybe a bronze gun brush. Then flush it out.

The trick it the flush it out tool. I have old MP with a small shank and one with a large shank soldered to a garden hose fitting. Make the quick disconnect to my office/studio sink and turn on the water. Being able rinse everything out quick and easy is the way to go. This takes just minutes.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/15AN3J0 ... drive_link

Clean the slide with a non-metal brush and cleaning rod every week. Wipe off and re-apply tuning slide grease as necessary, typically every other week. I sometimes use Brasso on the slides if they're tarnishing. I may sometimes get some room-temperature dish soap and water on a towel and wipe down the exterior surfaces of the horn, but I never submerge any part in water.

I get my horns professionally cleaned once a year, or I did before I got to Hawaii.. they desperately need it now but I've tried to clean them more regularly myself here.

JameyMorgan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:51 pm Clean the slide with a non-metal brush and cleaning rod every week. Wipe off and re-apply tuning slide grease as necessary, typically every other week. I sometimes use Brasso on the slides if they're tarnishing. I may sometimes get some room-temperature dish soap and water on a towel and wipe down the exterior surfaces of the horn, but I never submerge any part in water.

I get my horns professionally cleaned once a year, or I did before I got to Hawaii.. they desperately need it now but I've tried to clean them more regularly myself here.

Now that you've apparently moved to Hawaii, it's more important than ever to put away your trombones "dead dry" after playing. An occasional professional cleaning may help (I do not need to do that annually), but a regular hygiene protocol is mandatory to extend the efficient function (and life) of your instruments. I regularly swab both inner and outer slides with an HW Products Brass Saver (soft brush), followed by an absorbent cloth-wrapped cleaning rod (usually a Slide-O-Mix towel sheath) until completely dry. I don't find the need to re-apply tuning slide grease very often - it seems to last quite a while for me. I do lubricate my valves and linkages regularly - perhaps more than I need to, but lubricants are cheap. And I almost never give my trombones a bath any more - they are already meticulously cleaned by my normal hygiene protocol. With all this (and gentle wiping with a microfiber cloth) my trombones remain near perfect, with smooth slides (thank you Yamaha lube) and silent valves.

Using an alto sax silk swab I swab out the inner slide, tuning slide and bell section after every time I play it. I wash the horn thoroughly weekly, give it a good wipe down and reapply tuning slide grease.

Once a year I do the full disassembly, bath, brush, rinse, eventually acid lime removal, more wash, brush and rinse thing. On my most played trombone. Plus dry and lub, Sometimes I get lazy an ask the tech to do it for me. Other times I use half a day to do it myself. Depends. ...

I bathe mine in the tub at least twice a year per my original teacher's instruction. Whole instrument, disassembled, rotor valve intact still. I snake out all tubing under the water including slides and f-attach then rinse and let dry completely.... maybe I have been doing it wrong all this time??? I am definitely looking for better tips on daily and routine maintenance and upkeep! As I want to do it right.

(Edit: clarified that I don't disassemble the rotor valve/assembly for bathing. but I DO submerge it and snake it out)

I clean my slides every few weeks and occasionally the whole horn if it's a horn I regularly play, less often on my small bore which gets less play time.

My euphonium gets an annual bath and every 2-3 years or so a chem cleaning from my local tech. The last time I took it in for chem cleaning my euph was full of gray gunk in spite of having had a regular annual bath.

If you do give your trombone a bath, ensure you dry it completely before you re-case it.
This will take some effort (drying with absorbent cloth, Brass-Saver, cloth strips, towel sheath, etc.) and (ideally) a long air-dry period. (Don't forget the valve!) Standing water is the enemy of brass.

I no longer bathe my trombones at any frequent interval, since I've adopted an anal-compulsive regular hygiene protocol - I wipe the slides clean, then swab (with the HW Products Brass-Saver and Slide-O-Mix towel sheath) at the end of the day I play them (or the next morning); lightly lube valves if present; put dry trombone back in case. Takes just a few minutes, but worth it - all my trombones are pristine, with super-smooth slides and valves.

I never use an old-fashioned "snake" (stiff brush on a coiled metal wire) any more - nowhere near as effective as the Brass-Saver and potentially damaging to the slide. You can't safely run a snake through your bell/valve section; this is a piece of cake with a Brass-Saver.

Since I'm playing regularly again, I've moved to a different regimen. Once a week I thoroughly clean the slide: inner and outer, inside and outside. Insides of the tubes get swabbed with 3 3" lint-free Birchwood Casey 12 ga cleaning patches with 91% isopropyl alcohol in the regular trombone cleaning rod, and then 3 dry ones. I make sure I see that the inners have a mirror finish as a result and assume that the insides of the outers are similar. I run a Brass-Saver through the outer slide after that. Visual inspections with an endoscopy of the outer slide indicate that this is an effective procedure. The outsides of the inners are also wiped down with the alcohol and dried.

Maybe once a month I'll pull the lead pipe out for the cleaning. Otherwise, it just stays in. No problem.

I oil the valves (inside and outside) a couple of times a week -- honestly, with whatever reasonable valve oil I have handy. I oil the linkages at the same time using 3-in-1 PTFE.

I try to clean the entire horn about every six months: all the slides, with Simple Green, and flushing the valves thoroughly also using Simple Green. But I'm not exactly religious about this interval, and sometimes it gets stretched out. I haven't had the valves apart in about a year and a half, and -- given this cleaning ritual -- am disinclined to do that unless I have a specific reason. Maybe in a couple of years I'll do that just to see if I've got any calcium issues, but unless I see symptoms prior to that, I'm leaving them alone. Just too painful to do that, put in new bumpers, and realign things without a good reason. I do check valve alignment from time to time, but regard that as an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" situation.

I clean and re-lube the tuning slides (with silicone grease) "as necessary".

Except for rehearsals and gigs, the horn sits on its stand. I drain the condensation from it as well as I can but don't obsess over the inside's being dry. Since I do the weekly cleaning (and inspect the outer slide periodically) and don't see any corrosion or deposit issues, I don't worry about it.

I've been quite content with this once-or-twice-a-week approach to maintenance. It seems both painless and effective. Trombones (even double-valve basses) are really easy and quick to clean. When I was playing euphonium and tuba, I'd thoroughly clean every six months by using a "recirculating cleaning machine" I'd created out of a bucket, filter material, some tubing, and an aquarium pump.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:27 am Since I'm playing regularly again, I've moved to a different regimen.

Gary,

Your cleaning protocol is thorough, reasonable, and I'm sure quite effective. (Mine may be slightly overdone, but it sure works for my trombones. )

I'd guess that you won't find much to worry about inside your valves. I haven't seen any signs of calcium deposits for years - but I don't spray my slides with tap water, which is the only source of calcium that I can think of. (If I do use a spray, it's distilled water.)

The small amount of time taken in a regular cleaning process is (in my mind) well worth it. Huge return on investment.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 10:04 am ... I don't spray my slides with tap water,

Neither do I. We've had an RO unit for about 25 years.

... which is the only source of calcium that I can think of

Ummm ... maybe not. I do tend to agree with this, but I suppose it's POSSIBLE for some droplets of saliva to find their way into the valves. And the saliva MAY then contain some calcium. Still, that possibility seems highly remote, and I'm ignoring it. Of course in other valved instruments (especially German/Czech style tubas), such saliva will ultimately pass through the valves, and calcium deposits are detectable on the valves of those instruments. The approach taken to that is to disassemble the valves and soak (rather briefly) in vinegar or (even better!) HCL. I often think that worries about calcium deposits in trombone valves come from analogy to these other cases -- where in fact the analogies are not really relevant because of the different geometries involved.

I live in an area with extremely hard water so it is probably not too advisable. Instead, I make sure I clean the leadpipe and slide regularly - I use a snake on the leadpipe and inners, the Slide-o-Mix rod cover and the Brass Saver on the outer, and a little isopropyl alcohol.

cubetrom wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:45 am I live in an area with extremely hard water so it is probably not too advisable. Instead, I make sure I clean the leadpipe and slide regularly - I use a snake on the leadpipe and inners, the Slide-o-Mix rod cover and the Brass Saver on the outer, and a little isopropyl alcohol.

Don't be reluctant to use the Brass-Saver in the inner slide (including leadpipe) - or even the bell section. It's quite gentle, and pretty effective. The Slide-O-Mix towel sheath should be reserved for the outer slide.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 10:14 am

cubetrom wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:45 am I live in an area with extremely hard water so it is probably not too advisable. Instead, I make sure I clean the leadpipe and slide regularly - I use a snake on the leadpipe and inners, the Slide-o-Mix rod cover and the Brass Saver on the outer, and a little isopropyl alcohol.

Don't be reluctant to use the Brass-Saver in the inner slide (including leadpipe) - or even the bell section. It's quite gentle, and pretty effective. The Slide-O-Mix towel sheath should be reserved for the outer slide.

I'll give it a try - sounds better than scrubbing at it with a snake. And yeah, the thought of a cleaning rod going anywhere near the inners makes me shudder!

cubetrom wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 10:24 am

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 10:14 am

Don't be reluctant to use the Brass-Saver in the inner slide (including leadpipe) - or even the bell section. It's quite gentle, and pretty effective. The Slide-O-Mix towel sheath should be reserved for the outer slide.

I'll give it a try - sounds better than scrubbing at it with a snake. And yeah, the thought of a cleaning rod going anywhere near the inners makes me shudder!

My "snake" (stiff brush on a metal coiled wire) has long been retired and replaced by my Brass-Saver - which is much gentler, and passes safely through the entire trombone.

Bath once a month for the whole horn.
Swab once a week for the slide.
Full cleaning every day for the mouthpiece.

cubetrom wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 10:24 am ... the thought of a cleaning rod going anywhere near the inners makes me shudder!

I understand the trepidation there, but I use my cleaning rod in the inners all the time (including through the leadpipe since I don't like to remove that for EVERY -- weekly -- slide cleaning). You do need to take care of how you use it and not use so much swab material that you get it stuck. But once you've got that down, it's pretty much a breeze. Techs do it all the time (usually with a "gauze" -- or at least cloth -- strip). I don't think I could get the inners really clean without it.

I've picked up the brass saver, myself. Great little gadget! I also picked up BG France
BG Trombone Outer Slide Swab for cleaning the water out of the outer slide. I picked up some distilled water and plan to use that to clean my inner and outer slides once a month (we have hard water here in Cleveland, Ohio, USA).

I’ve never given my trombone a bath.

Generally my trumpet and tenor trombone get an annual bath in the utility sink. Trumpet is silver plated, it gets silver polishing cloth wipe down every two to three months. If they’ve been used heavily, maybe twice a year. Euph gets bathtub treatment, and the tuba will get its bath in the 100 gallon Rubbermaid cattle water tub…when I ever get around to bathing a horn I’ve used twice in 5 years.

Mouthpieces usually get once a week cleaning, which is each time after when they’ve been used.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 10:04 am

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:27 am Since I'm playing regularly again, I've moved to a different regimen.

but I don't spray my slides with tap water, which is the only source of calcium that I can think of. (If I do use a spray, it's distilled water.)

I'm inclined to think most of the calcium comes from our saliva. With the lips buzzing and air moving past, small droplets must be continuously blown into the horn.

Old euphoniums and tubas that may never have seen tap water still have large amounts of deposits inside. I don't see where that comes from if not from saliva. (plus biological organisms of course)

Cold horns should have more condensation. But after warming up most people still have to empty the slide. I would think the percentage of saliva in that may be more than we think.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:19 am I'm inclined to think most of the calcium comes from our saliva. With the lips buzzing and air moving past, small droplets must be continuously blown into the horn.

"Inclined to think ..." isn't very scientific, but it's also not entirely unreasonable in this circumstance. The "received view" appears to be that saliva doesn't actually make it into the horn (or not to any significant degree), and that any "water" in it is from condensation. I think there's a lot to this, but that it's not the full story -- since we know that hand slides (and tuning slides in valved instruments) pick up calcium deposits over time, and the calcium couldn't come from condensate of exhaled air itself.

So it does appear that the calcium deposits come from calcium-containing saliva making its way into the hand slide, if only in very small amounts.

Here's an actual study (done during the COVID epidemic) that has some pretty interesting data. I haven't read it particularly carefully, but it looks to be reasonably carefully done.

"Large Particle Emissions from Human Vocalization and Playing of Wind Instruments" (NLM via PubMed)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... #ref-list1

timothy42b wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:19 am

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 10:04 am
but I don't spray my slides with tap water, which is the only source of calcium that I can think of. (If I do use a spray, it's distilled water.)

I'm inclined to think most of the calcium comes from our saliva. With the lips buzzing and air moving past, small droplets must be continuously blown into the horn.

Old euphoniums and tubas that may never have seen tap water still have large amounts of deposits inside. I don't see where that comes from if not from saliva. (plus biological organisms of course)

Cold horns should have more condensation. But after warming up most people still have to empty the slide. I would think the percentage of saliva in that may be more than we think.

Try a simple experiment. Hold a piece of paper in front of your mouth and free buzz with your lips (or a visualizer rim if your prefer), and see if any droplets of saliva hit the paper. When I do this, the paper stays absolutely dry. Then buzz into your mouthpiece for awhile, and you will notice that moisture starts to form in the mouthpiece shank, and will eventually be expelled out and make marks on the paper. I think you are "spitting" into the horn much less than you think you are, if at all. I would imagine the moisture coming from your lungs is not pure H2O, but contains some minerals.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:50 am
"Large Particle Emissions from Human Vocalization and Playing of Wind Instruments" (NLM via PubMed)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... #ref-list1

Interesting article, thanks.

The focus back then was on large particles, as the prevailing view was that was how covid spread. It was probably incorrect, and much of what we tried to do sanitizing surfaces may not have done much.

I just read a fascinating book called Airborne, the Hidden History of the Life we Breathe. It isn't about covid or any one disease per se, but covers the history of investigations into what can live and spread in fine particles throughout the atmosphere.

Here's a pretty good review:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... face-them/

I also found some interesting medical articles that say saliva is part of maintaining the correct levels of mineral content in the teeth, so this is more complicated than I realized. But there is definitely calcium and other minerals in the saliva.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:26 pm The focus back then was on large particles, ...

Yes ... where "large" means "really pretty small, but big when compared to viruses"

I don't see anywhere in that paper where they're very specific about the type of "brass instrument" they're talking about, and I didn't follow through on some of the references, but I notice that in their little cartoon the instrument they illustrate is a trumpet. It's hard to imagine very many "particles" making it out the bell of the trumpet (much less a French horn or tuba -- and this view may be reflected in the number of spots coming out of the cartoon trumpet's bell. I think it's reasonable to expect typically more particles make it into the handslide of a straight trombone, and probably fewer into the handslide of a trombone with valves.

I'd expect to see calcium deposits, for example, in the handslide (which we do), but not in the crook or bell section. So giving your handslide and valves a bath seems a good idea, but beyond that ... Probably not much of an effect.

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:36 pm I use this on mine about once a week, depending on the amount of playing.
I like it because it`s long enough to clean the entire outer slide too
https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... snake-.php

Is that the one I gave you?

More likely that the calcium deposits on your slide come from spraying the slide with water that is not completely demineralized.. you should use distilled water if you spray your slide. I just keep my slides in tip top alignment and use the Yamaha. I avoid using water to spray my slide, and avoid dunking it in water for the same reason... that is where your calcium deposits are going to come from, not from spit, since what makes it into your horn from playing it is going to be 99.9% condensation.

tromboneVan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:25 am More likely that the calcium deposits on your slide come from spraying the slide with water that is not completely demineralized.. you should use distilled water if you spray your slide.

Euphonium and tuba players get the deposits, and they never spray with water.

I'd agree with distilled water but I never spray my slide.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 11:40 am Euphonium and tuba players get the deposits, and they never spray with water.

And if you look at WHERE they/we get deposits in those instruments, that might be revealing as well.