French Horn to trumpet

[Drombone]

OK. First, I know this is a trombone forum, and neither French horns nor trumpets are trombones.

I play in a good community wind band, where most of the first seat musicians are teachers, or ex Military (often principal) players. One of our trumpet players is actually an ex RAF horn player. He has swapped (don't ask why) to tpt. He was struggling to get any range on the tpt, whereas he could pick his horn up after 6 months and play from pedals to the Gods. He wondered why.

I remembered a post a while back from my good friend Stewbones43 who had the reverse problem, and it came down to the radical difference between the horn embouchure and the rest of the brass. I suggested to my friend and would-be trumpeter that this is the problem, and he, to his credit has worked at mouthpiece placement and has seen a discernible improvement in range, stamina and control.

I also suggested Collins' lip flexibilities as a good workbook.

Anyone else got any ideas?

[Finetales]

Trumpet and horn are just very, very different. Even though they both have similar-sized mouthpiece diameters, they feel entirely different on the face and the instruments require totally different approaches. A big range on horn doesn't mean anything on trumpet (and vice versa). In my opinion, trombone and horn is an easier double than trumpet and horn.

A trumpet/trombone doubler friend recently asked me how to get a bigger sound on horn. I mentioned that it's good to think of the horn more from a low brass state of mind, and he said it really helped. The opposite could be true for your horn player friend, who may be trying to approach the trumpet from that big horn sound mindset. You have to lean into the trumpet's bright, direct sound to get the most out of it. Fast, focused air.

More generally, for any trumpet range issues, I always recommend the Carmine Caruso method.

[comebackplayer]

Collins is a good idea. I find when learning a new instrument a mix of fundamentals and lyrical etudes helps. He might also be a good candidate for reading in Reinhardt about embouchure. It sounds like a lot of his problem is probably embouchure (lip placement, jaw, aperture).

[Wilktone]

In general I would recommend against using a different mouthpiece placement between different brass instruments. I know that the size of the mouthpiece can be radically different between high and low brass, but what I mean is that the placement should usually make imaginary concentric circles. In other words, if the placement is 70/30 on trumpet it's usually best to play 70/30 on any other brass instrument as well.

Maybe he is using different horn angles between the different instruments. There are certain things that brass musicians do to change registers with the hands/body to alter the way the mouthpiece/instrument is set against the lips. Holding the horn is very different from holding the trumpet and so perhaps that is causing enough of a difference. Maybe it's something related to the tongue arch.

Without watching your friend play both instruments it's hard to offer any specific advice. This is sort of like asking a medical doctor to diagnose someone's headache without being able to ask the patient questions, let alone actually examine them.

Dave

[Doug Elliott]

Horn is one of those instruments like euph and tuba where the instrument pretty much defines the mouthpiece angle to your face. Trumpet (and trombone) tend to droop because they require more effort to hold up... And there's also the aspect of the instrument's relation to the music stand and vision.
So if one instrument's holding / playing position and resulting angle is more conducive to success of the individual's embouchure, that would be one factor.

And the double horn is the same length and range as a trombone with F attachment, so there are a lot of similarities in playing it, despite the obvious differences.

[BrassSection]

As one who plays trumpet, trombone, euph,and French horn on a regular basis I’d have to say all the advice above is good. Grew up on low brass, always seemed easy to me. Times called for trumpet and it took me awhile to master that, especially the upper range. What I’ve found best for trumpet is 3 words…practice, practice, practice! Don’t know why it works for me, but if I stay in shape practicing trumpet only, the other horns come easy when used once a week or so. French horn only gets used about once every 4 to 6 weeks.

[dershem]

Ask Wayne Bergeron. He started out on french horn.
HOrn is a very minor double in my array, but... each horn teaches you something new. It's possible, and once you have it down, not hard, but... it's always best to work with someone who does both when you start a new double.

[Richard3rd]

I've played all the instruments and I can say the toughest transition is anything to trumpet. The easiest transition is trumpet to anything else. Trumpet requires more strength in the embouchure and all surrounding muscles. Starting on trumpet gives you the solid base. I never need to practice any of the others and can pick them up anytime and be credible. Skip a little time on the trumpet and I am woefully behind when coming back to it. Trumpet requires time every day and that means 1-3 hours for me. I find the best method to be the stuff at the end of Arban or St. Jacome where there is double and triple tonguing up and down the range.