I'm all set for tenor mutes, with the stone lined aluminum straight and the DW convertible cup, but I need some suggestions for bass cup mute.
I've got stone lined aluminum straight, good bucket and practice mutes for bass which seem to work well in my Kanstul 1662i. I also got a Stonelined fiber cup, which is really awful. I tried drilling some holes, adding cork, and it's still awful.
I'm looking at Hickeys, and the choice appears to be between DW and JoRal adjustable, and a TrumCor. Are there others that people prefer? I'd lean toward the light side just for practicality, but it has to sound good first. Suggestions?
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:53 am
by ithinknot
The DW is fine, and quite light.
Never met a Wallace mute I didn't like, though I haven't bought the bass cup yet. Their new dedicated small bore tenor cup is fantastic. Tend to be heavier than DW.
From the archives:
blast wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:28 am
I find the Wallace cup mute to be a very fine thing indeed. My go to metal cup. The Peter Gane is my preferred fiber version.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:15 am
by muschem
On tenor, the DW works well for me. I haven't tried the bass version, but I'd expect that works well also.
I also like the Soulo cup on tenor, but I don't think they make a bass version.
I picked up a tenor and bass version of the Butler carbon fiber cups not too long ago (https://butlertrombones.com/shop/trombo ... ight-mute/), and if cost isn't a concern, those are amazingly light. I love the way they've done the corks on those - strips of hook and loop to make the insertion depth adjustable without a need to break out sandpaper or a file. I believe SwissTBone carries these as well for those across the pond.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:34 am
by KWL
I’m real happy with David Butler’s new carbon fiber bass trombone mute. Light, in tune, great adjustable “corks” and no more clanking when putting it in or dropping it. The convertible part is cool, but not really practical when you have multiple mute changes.
The Denis Wick adjustable bass trombone cup mute is preferable to the similar-looking Jo-Ral.
Definitely better than the Humes & Berg "Stonelined" fiber cup. (My opinion only!)
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:12 pm
by Burgerbob
I don't like any of my bass cup mutes. The DW goes in too far, and has maybe 2mm before the cup is touching the bell (on any of my basses). Adjustable in name only. My H&B has a huge dead zone below the staff.
I'm hoping for something better to come to market.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:37 pm
by Posaunus
Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:57 pm
The Denis Wick adjustable bass trombone cup mute is preferable to the similar-looking Jo-Ral.
Definitely better than the Humes & Berg "Stonelined" fiber cup. (My opinion only!)
And I play what is apparently considered these days a "small" bass trombone (Conn 71H).
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:01 pm
by GabrielRice
I have 2 Stonelined large bass cup mutes that sound and respond great. Really! I've never found anything better. I had a third that didn't work well for me, but I gave it to a student whose horn is a better fit with it.
The Wick is OK, but no more than that. The Jo-Ral is a disaster. On a lark I bought a TrumCor...which is also a disaster.
I have a feeling Ilan Morganstern's Morningstar cup mute will be great. Ilan is very discerning, and he's relentless to get the designs right.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:31 pm
by CalgaryTbone
GabrielRice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:01 pm
I have 2 Stonelined large bass cup mutes that sound and respond great. Really! I've never found anything better. I had a third that didn't work well for me, but I gave it to a student whose horn is a better fit with it.
The Wick is OK, but no more than that. The Jo-Ral is a disaster. On a lark I bought a TrumCor...which is also a disaster.
I have a feeling Ilan Morganstern's Morningstar cup mute will be great. Ilan is very discerning, and he's relentless to get the designs right.
I bought one of Ilan's straight mutes at the ITF - really good product! If the cup mute ends up being in the same league, it will be a good choice. They are 3D printed - the straight has a metal plate on the bottom that helps it have a sound that blends with metal mutes. The Soulo tenor cup is good - someone needs to get them to make a Bass version.
Jim Scott
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:17 pm
by hyperbolica
I looked closer, and the awful bass cup I have is the Stonelined Mic-a mute. No idea why I bought that mute. Regardless, I need a better bass cup. I have had a DW cup for tenor since high school, so I'll probably get one of those for bass too. The price seems reasonable. Thanks for the opinions.
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:12 pm
I don't like any of my bass cup mutes. The DW goes in too far, and has maybe 2mm before the cup is touching the bell (on any of my basses). Adjustable in name only.
You can adjust a mute that goes in too far by adding a thin layer of cork on top of the existing corks. I've done that to some other mutes to get them to sit right in the horn. I got a sheet of thin cork from the hardware store, and a can of contact cement. So far it keeps sticking. If I have to solve the same problem with the DW I'll take a couple pictures and show you how I did it.
Wallace looks good, but availability in the US doesn't seem great. Costs $55 dollars to ship a $99 dollar mute
Butler is pricy and kind of an unknown factor
Soulo didn't sound great in the demos I saw
Tom Crown sound didn't seem great in online demos
The Jo-ral sounded pretty good, but I'll take the consensus word that it's not great.
The Stonelined are leaving a bad taste after the Mic-a Mute - the whole thing is just dead.
Windy City is an unknown to me
Trumcor is unknown to me
Tools 4 Winds (Dillon) unknown
Ullven - $167 + shipping
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:38 am
by BGuttman
The HB 199 bass cup mute is a Mic-A-Mute design. There is a regular cup design that I think is called 171, but most of us use it as a large bore tenor mute.
I found the 199 to be too large for my King 7B bell. It would go better with something with a larger taper in the throat.
I found the Wick to be the best compromise for my bass. But then again, many of the designs mentioned weren't available when I adopted it.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:21 am
by ithinknot
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:12 pm
The DW goes in too far, and has maybe 2mm before the cup is touching the bell (on any of my basses).
Did you buy a secondhand one that had already been trimmed? The factory corks are slightly curved on the underside, 7.5mm at the edges and 6.5mm in the middle. Open cup is 20mm from the bell on my 50 and 185.
I don't love it - usable below the stave but not perfect, and slightly "thin aluminum" sounding overall (likely the price you pay for the light weight) - so I'll probably check out the Wallace at some point, but I paid under $20 on eBay for my boxed-and-unused example so it's pretty tolerable.
If in doubt I would simply buy the Denis Wick mute. I have not yet had any issues with it on tenor or bass. It's relatively cheap and works well.
Can someone help me what's the core difference in sound, response etc. between the normal H&B and those Mic-A-Mute designs?
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:33 am
by hyperbolica
The H&B site even says the Mic-A doesn't project as well. The name suggests that they should be used with a microphone. My experience with it was that the entire range on it was a squirrelly dead zone, out of tune, defocused sound. I tried the old drill-a-hole trick because it really couldn't make it worse, and it didn't make it any better. The one I have is a couple of years old, in good condition aside from the holes I drilled and hasn't been used until this week.
I have experience with the normal Stonelined/fiber/Red and White/H&B mutes being pretty resonant, reliable, proper cup mute sound, even when they're 50 years old and beat up. I have old ones for tenor that I use on crappy gigs, but all I have for bass is the Mic-A.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 am
by BGuttman
MStarke wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:59 am
...
Can someone help me what's the core difference in sound, response etc. between the normal H&B and those Mic-A-Mute designs?
The difference between the two mutes is the rim; otherwise they are identical (except the "171 bass" is more a large tenor mute). I found nearly no difference between the standard tenor cup and the Mic-a-Mute tenor. Big difference is you can trim the corks on the Mic-a-Mute to get a "tight cup" fitting while the regular cup will always have some gaps between mute and bell due to the scallops. I don't know of a version of the 199 that has scalloped edge and no rubber.
The response of the regular tenor cup and Mic-a-Mute tenor cup is virtually identical I won't even begin to describe differences between the 199 and the 171.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:21 am
by ghmerrill
I couldn't get the H&B cup mute to work on my bass trombone -- and I really tried. Just dull sounding. I use the H&B straight mute on it and it works fine (and also doesn't dent, even if some drummer or clarinet player steps on it or you drop it on concrete).
The Wick adjustable cup mute works great for me. Nice sound and it doesn't feel like someone hung a half-pound fishing sinker on my bell when I wasn't looking. But I do have to be much more careful with it when it's out of the horn.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:28 pm
by EriKon
I'm surprised that Wallace had so little mentions in here. By far the best cup for bass on the market in my opinion. Only downside, a little heavy. But intonation, sound and feel is superb. In Germany it is used a lot by bass trombonists at the radio big bands and also seen it with some classical orchestras.
Just got myself two Wallace tenor mutes as well a few weeks ago. Great mutes again.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:39 pm
by marccromme
For Brass Band the DW adjustable aluminium cup is the sound, and works great. Or the Wallace.
For Big Band I much prefer the HB stone lines fiber bass cup mute, cant remember the product number.
It needs adjusting the Cork spacers, I did glue a new set on cut from a Cork pinboard from the hardware store. It works best if the rim is about 2 cm away from the bell. This distance ensures nice sound, not too much dampening, and a good low register.
In case yout have a rolling tone, usually just under the staff, it helps drilling a 4 mm hole in the side of the mute, where the cup meets the base. It takes out rolling frequencies, and makes no difference for all other tones. On one of my bass bones I needed two of those.
Correctly tuned like described above the HB is plainly speaken the king of bass cup mutes. Very nice sound, very even response.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:54 pm
by SwissTbone
Butler mutes are worth mentioning. Fully adjustable, quite ingenious design, very light and a great sound.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:06 pm
by ghmerrill
marccromme wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:39 pm
In case yout have a rolling tone, usually just under the staff, it helps drilling a 4 mm hole in the side of the mute, where the cup meets the base. It takes out rolling frequencies, and makes no difference for all other tones. On one of my bass bones I needed two of those.
Correctly tuned like described above the HB is plainly speaken the king of bass cup mutes. Very nice sound, very even response.
I'm sure this works in a lot of cases. But I tried the various "hole tuning" approaches, and couldn't get anything to work on my horn. I think it's just something about that horn (bell)/mute pair.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:27 pm
by GabrielRice
EriKon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:28 pm
I'm surprised that Wallace had so little mentions in here. By far the best cup for bass on the market in my opinion. Only downside, a little heavy. But intonation, sound and feel is superb. In Germany it is used a lot by bass trombonists at the radio big bands and also seen it with some classical orchestras.
Just got myself two Wallace tenor mutes as well a few weeks ago. Great mutes again.
But, but, but...your profile pic shows an H&B cup...
EriKon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:28 pm
I'm surprised that Wallace had so little mentions in here. By far the best cup for bass on the market in my opinion. Only downside, a little heavy. But intonation, sound and feel is superb. In Germany it is used a lot by bass trombonists at the radio big bands and also seen it with some classical orchestras.
Just got myself two Wallace tenor mutes as well a few weeks ago. Great mutes again.
But, but, but...your profile pic shows an H&B cup...
Dang, don't tell this the Wallace guys
It's an older picture and on tenor I prefer the H&B sound for bigband and some more old-time jazz stuff. It's the classic sound after all. But for theatre/musical shows, classical, modern jazz and and and... Wallace would be my choice nowadays after having one for a few months now.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 8:25 am
by spencercarran
I have a Tom Crown convertible bass cup mute. It's very heavy, makes the trombone unbalanced and unpleasant to hold, which is probably true for most cup mutes other than H&B. Sound and response is... tolerable, for the amount and settings I use it.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:06 pm
by elmsandr
I have the DW… it is fine, I guess.
Mutes and bass trombones are not terribly compatible. Just not the same as tenors or trumpets. Heck, even euph and tuba mutes sound better, but they are never asked for a Harmon or a cup mute…
Cheers,
Andy
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:32 am
by ngrinder
I've tried a bunch of bass cup mutes - actually for two years in a row, I played a run of a Christmas show with a very prominent 30-ish bars in bass cup (60+ shows over 2 months - lots of chance for mute experimentation!) . At one point I had three different mutes in my locker, but the Tools For Winds came out on top for me. It cuts quite a bit, but still retains a really warm core to the sound. I was playing a Holton E185, so a decidedly different beast than most modern horns, FWIW.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:09 am
by Burgerbob
And tools4winds is out of stock... Of course!
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:24 am
by hyperbolica
Dillons says that Tools4Winds is no longer making the bass mutes.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:39 am
by WGWTR180
hyperbolica wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:24 am
Dillons says that Tools4Winds is no longer making the bass mutes.
Well then that just makes them tools.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:10 am
by Pieter
I have the H&B cup mute and the Dennis Wick. The Dennis Wick plays very well, but sound-wise it is just not
great. The Humes and Berg has the sound I want, plus it blends very well in big bands where all the tenors play H&B mutes. But it's always very finicky with the exact amount of cork to get it playable around the bottom of the staff.
The Wallace looks promising. Does anyone here know how it compares sound-wise with the Humes and Berg, and how well it blends if the rest of the trombone section uses H&B cups?
I also noticed Care4Winds has a wooden one. Anyone with experience with those?
Or perhaps I'll design and 3D-print my own. I have a design from my last attempt, but that proved that it was quite tricky to get it to sound well. Maybe with a slightly thicker bottom to reduce resonance it could be ok.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:45 pm
by marccromme
elmsandr wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:06 pm
Heck, even euph and tuba mutes sound better, but they are never asked for a Harmon or a cup mute…
Actually, yes, almost every year in the Danish British style Brass Band competition there was a test piece requiring Euphonium or EB tuba to use a cup mute. My former Brass Band owned a complete set of blue Wallace aluminium cup mutes for all low brass for that. And use of aluminium straight mutes for euph and tuba is quite normal too.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:42 pm
by EriKon
Pieter wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:10 am
The Wallace looks promising. Does anyone here know how it compares sound-wise with the Humes and Berg, and how well it blends if the rest of the trombone section uses H&B cups?
This is what a lot of trombone sections actually have over here. It's a great match in my opinion. Also the Wallace is very versatile with the adjustable cup. A lot more than the tight cup/open cup sound that you get with DW.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:56 pm
by OneTon
I am okay with Jo-Ral. The tonal timbre seems adequate and I don’t have any notes that don’t speak well. The edge of the cup is extremely sharp and barely de-burred. The “C” shaped rubber grommet that is attached to that sharp edge has fallen off of the bass and maybe the tenor. I re-attached it with black 3M trim cement. The bass trombone balance gets wonky for me especially with a cup mute. Between that and a loose fit in my Duo-Gravis, I have to hold the mute in the bell to play. I also use the Jo-Ral bass trombone cup mute in my straight Bach 42G, which seems to have a non-standard bell, and also my Bach LT42AG.
If I were to replace the Jo-Ral, I would probably get a Thomas Crown Bass Cup. It has better build quality and price. I have had good results with a TC trumpet straight mute that I use in a tenor as a pixie mute, and I prefer the TC wah wah to Harmon’s. I don’t anticipate replacing the Jo-Ral anytime soon.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:57 pm
by mbtrombone
I have the JoRal and the DW. I usually use the DW because it is easier to play and easier to use for quick mute changes. I only seem to use cup on bass in new music and jazz and for some reason the changes tend to need to be quick or from straight to cup or something else quickly. I can grab the bottom of the DW and put it in my bell.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:05 pm
by hyperbolica
As a follow up, I wound up buying a DW, and as many said, it's "fine". The Mic-a-mute was terribly dead, but the DW has a nice characteristic sound. Around low C it loses a little resonance, but it sounds good and fits my horn right out the box.
I wanted to get a Wallace, but availability was an issue and i need one for a NYE gig. Plus, the rest of the section is using DWs.
Thx to all for input. Lots of good info in posts here.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:56 am
by ssking2b
hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:05 pm
As a follow up, I wound up buying a DW, and as many said, it's "fine". The Mic-a-mute was terribly dead, but the DW has a nice characteristic sound. Around low C it loses a little resonance, but it sounds good and fits my horn right out the box.
Drill a small hole with up to a 1/8th inch drill bit (6.35mm) or perhaps slightly smaller in the dead center bottom of the mute. All your low notes will speak with the resonance you want. If you don't like it with the hole, put a small piece of black duct tape over it, and you'll never know you drilled it. I drill ALL my bass and tenor straight and cup mutes. The result is I am happy with all of them. I use DM mutes.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:52 am
by hyperbolica
ssking2b wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:56 am
Drill a small hole with up to a 1/8th inch drill bit (6.35mm) or perhaps slightly smaller in the dead center bottom of the mute. All your low notes will speak with the resonance you want. If you don't like it with the hole, put a small piece of black duct tape over it, and you'll never know you drilled it. I drill ALL my bass and tenor straight and cup mutes. The result is I am happy with all of them. I use DM mutes.
I tried this with the Mic-a-mute, and no love. Since one hole didn't work and I had nothing to lose, I drilled more holes around the inside of the cone, and still no love.
Bought a DW, and it works without holes.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:18 pm
by modelerdc
I've been using a H&B over 40 years. It's the one larger than the standard bass cup, which works better on smaller throated basses like King 1480 and Roberts model Olds. The H&B had some wolf tones below the staff, so I drilled a very small in the center of the end and stuffed clears plastic shrink wrap inside until the wolf tones were gone.
I have a Dennis Wick cup/straight combo, nice but just won't play below the staff as either cup or straight mute.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:22 pm
by OneTon
One of our players is using a Wick in his Thomann bass. It sounds better than my Jo-Ral. But he still has to hang onto it with his left hand. I’m not rushing out to replace my Ji-Ral: Cup mutes in bass trombones are problematic.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:43 pm
by rockyband
I went all-in for JoRal mutes for both tenor and bass as they were easily available locally, cost effective for my wallet, and only get used for the yearly musicals I get involved with and occasional big band stuff. For my playing style and level they are quite adequate.
One additional accessory I bought, though, was a carpet square. It has saved a few dings!
ssking2b wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:56 am
Drill a small hole with up to a 1/8th inch drill bit (6.35mm) or perhaps slightly smaller in the dead center bottom of the mute. All your low notes will speak with the resonance you want. If you don't like it with the hole, put a small piece of black duct tape over it, and you'll never know you drilled it. I drill ALL my bass and tenor straight and cup mutes. The result is I am happy with all of them. I use DM mutes.
I tried this with the Mic-a-mute, and no love. Since one hole didn't work and I had nothing to lose, I drilled more holes around the inside of the cone, and still no love.
Bought a DW, and it works without holes.
Sometimes the mute just sucks. but if you drill and it doesn't help it, it's time to try a different mute.
H&B used to make 2 different bass bone mutes - one for small (standard?) throat and one for large throat. I used to buy the one with the smaller throat design and build up the corks to fit my horn. The cup portion was the same size. several of these got better with the drilled hole. the ones that didn't went to a new home. But I still prefer and use the DW mutes over all.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:57 am
by ssking2b
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:12 pm
I don't like any of my bass cup mutes. The DW goes in too far, and has maybe 2mm before the cup is touching the bell (on any of my basses). Adjustable in name only. My H&B has a huge dead zone below the staff.
I'm hoping for something better to come to market.
Build up the corks. your problem will be solved.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:08 am
by tbonesullivan
I just have the larger H&B cup mute... which I have yet to had to remove from the packaging, as I pretty much only play in orchestras and wind symphonies. Pretty much only ever use the straight mute with bass trombone. I have thought about getting a Denis Wick, but I suspect it will get just as much use as my Tenor harmon mute.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:26 am
by heldenbone
Have played new examples of both Wick and Wallace now. Instruments used were Getzen Eterna and King Duo Gravis basses.
Wick is "fine." Good representative cup sound, lghter weight, needs corks sanded down. Balance with tenors also using Wick cups was good. Notes around double trigger D are bashful about public speaking. Bring your power drill to address these notes. The cup position is adjustable.
Wallace is also "fine." It sounds like a cup mute, albeit a large one. Weight is more than the Wick, as the sheet metal used is noticeably more substantial. Balance with tenors needs a little care, as timbre differs a bit. The paint color is brilliant white with an electric blue cup. If that bothers you, be prepared to hose it down with something less attention-getting. Corks are very narrow, making insertion and removal quick because they compress easily. They may also be delicate. The cup position is adjustable, similar to the Wick, with one innovation. There is a pre-drilled hole that can be open or closed depending on how high the cup is moved. There is also a padded bottom to the mute, allowing it to be set down without a metallic clank. In the center of the bottom pad is a cutout concealing another drilled hole. It may be removed to vent the mute at all times.
Which one? I dunno. They are both reasonable choices. Muirhead/Wallace put a lot of thought into their product to improve on a pretty simple device. Wick made a good mute. I wish the Wallace was lighter. I wish the Wick incorporated the vents and corks of the other. I wish both were less expensive.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:56 am
by EriKon
heldenbone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:26 am
Have played new examples of both Wick and Wallace now. Instruments used were Getzen Eterna and King Duo Gravis basses.
Wick is "fine." Good representative cup sound, lghter weight, needs corks sanded down. Balance with tenors also using Wick cups was good. Notes around double trigger D are bashful about public speaking. Bring your power drill to address these notes. The cup position is adjustable.
Wallace is also "fine." It sounds like a cup mute, albeit a large one. Weight is more than the Wick, as the sheet metal used is noticeably more substantial. Balance with tenors needs a little care, as timbre differs a bit. The paint color is brilliant white with an electric blue cup. If that bothers you, be prepared to hose it down with something less attention-getting. Corks are very narrow, making insertion and removal quick because they compress easily. They may also be delicate. The cup position is adjustable, similar to the Wick, with one innovation. There is a pre-drilled hole that can be open or closed depending on how high the cup is moved. There is also a padded bottom to the mute, allowing it to be set down without a metallic clank. In the center of the bottom pad is a cutout concealing another drilled hole. It may be removed to vent the mute at all times.
Which one? I dunno. They are both reasonable choices. Muirhead/Wallace put a lot of thought into their product to improve on a pretty simple device. Wick made a good mute. I wish the Wallace was lighter. I wish the Wick incorporated the vents and corks of the other. I wish both were less expensive.
How do you feel about dead notes? I've been super unhappy with the Wick from low D and further down (wouldn't center at all) and I don't have that problem at all with the Wallace mute.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:01 pm
by heldenbone
That's what I was referring to about the Wick being "bashful" around double trigger D and the need to perform a little drill surgery to vent it, similar to how the Wallace mute is delivered. Wick pedals seemed usable, but I play a smallish mouthpiece that puts a lot of the sound energy in harmonics above the fundamental. Just guessing that might be relevant. I agree, the Wallace mute is happier in the double trigger and pedal range generally.
[edit]
One last word on the subject: I paused at the cost, but decided the extra $40 (USD) gear4music.com added for DHL shipment would amortise out over the life of the mute. No horror stories to recount abount DHL. The mute cleared customs and arrived in about a week.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:15 am
by Pieter
I now have the Wallace, the Wick and the H&B here.
The Wallace is the best playability wise, and sounds the most refined.works through all of the range, but quite a bit of backpressure. It is also really big and really heavy. and quite a range in different sounds by adjusting the cup.
The Wick, not the sound I look for. Does not blend well with a Humes and Berg tenor section. Low D is not great, but less problematic than the H&B.
The H&B is by far the brightest sounding one. It has annoying dead notes, or different sounding bits of range, adjusting corks improves it but it never really goes away. Maybe It will try to add a hole...
You can actually swap the cup section of the Wick and the Wallace mutes. The Wick is better with the wallace cup, and quite a bit lighter than the Wallace. The Wallace sounds and plays still better than this combination for me.
Will try in some big band sections to see if it blends well. And if the size and weight are not too much...
I have a 3d printable design that I never finished. if I have some spare time I could try improving it so that it sounds better, without the weight issues.This mute unscrews halfway, making it very small to carry. If anyone wants the design, send me a message...
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:20 am
by Dennis
I have the Jo-Ral, H&B Mic-a-mute, and now the Wick.
With any mute, it's horses-for-courses. The Jo-Ral has a horrible dead spot/wolf tone (whatever you want to call it) around Db2. There isn't any resonant pitch for the horn/mute system around that pitch. C2 and D2 are better but still iffy. That's true for both my Bach 50T3G, and my Shires with either bell (I have a B1 LW and a B2 Y). But for things from Eb2 up (i.e., the money register) it gets a great covered cup sound. It's my preferred cup for pit work because it's unlikely to cover vocalists but still sounds like a cup.
The H&B is a hot mess, with wolf tones all over the place in my Bach. (I haven't tried it in the Shires, because I dislike it so much.) It does not blend well with metal cups. As a cup mute, it would make a good set decoration for the Original Star Trek sick bay. For playing...not so much. It's possible I have a poor example of the species. I bought it well-used.
The Wick is a more pointed mute...articulations come through clearly, where the Jo-Ral seems to cover articulations. It's also a much brighter mute than either of the other mutes. But it only works in a section where everyone is using metal cups, and works best if everyone's using DW cups. I bought it because the NABBA second section test piece this year (Albinus Variations, by Etienne Crauzad [a great piece, btw]) has a couple of prominent cup muted passages that the Jo-Ral just wasn't working in. As soon as I started using the Wick, our principal bass player told me, "Big improvement--that sounds convincing now." I attribute it to the mute having clearer articulations and a brighter, clearer, sound.
The Wick is now my starting point for bass cups. I still need to acquire some sort of fiber bass cup that works for the times when I need that sound or have to blend with a section of red and white cups.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:34 pm
by MichaelMedrick
KWL wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:34 am
I’m real happy with David Butler’s new carbon fiber bass trombone mute. Light, in tune, great adjustable “corks” and no more clanking when putting it in or dropping it. The convertible part is cool, but not really practical when you have multiple mute changes.
I send this! I bought a Tenor cup first, tried it and order a bass as soon as they were available. They are very light and have a great sound. I found no "dead zone" in playing them.
Re: Favorite bass cup mute
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:41 pm
by Burgerbob
I have a Morningstar mute on the way, very excited for it.
