TromboneChat

Got my wife an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner for Christmas. Wondering if it can be used to clean mouthpieces.

I use one to clean my mouthpieces. Just water and Dawn dish soap. Haven't seen any problems.
--Andy in OKC

One of my wasted extravagances was to purchase a mouthpiece brush to place in each of my (too many) trombone cases. I almost never use these - regular washing with warm water and mild soap (Dawn) & air drying seems to be more than enough to keep my mouthpieces pristine. (I brush my teeth before playing, so never see any debris in my mouthpieces.)

The brushes are nice and cheap. Just use dish soap and warm water with the brush. If you need an ultrasonic cleaner for your mouthpiece, that thing must be filthy!

The ultrasonic cleaners pretty much shake tarnish off the mouthpiece, so they are a very easy way to get tarnish out of the recesses in some designs. Like Marcinkiewicz pro-line.

That said I wash out my MPCs after I used them, so I never really get the build up on the interior.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:26 pm The ultrasonic cleaners pretty much shake tarnish off the mouthpiece ...

Could you explain the mechanism of this? Tarnish results from a chemical reaction and isn't anything like particles attached to the surface. How does "shaking" deal with the molecular/chemical issues?

Also: "Although ultrasonic cleaners are extremely effective for removing dirt, grime, grease and particles, but they will not remove tarnish." (https://www.jcr-solutions.com.au/jewell ... 20compound.)

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:23 pm The brushes are nice and cheap. Just use dish soap and warm water with the brush. If you need an ultrasonic cleaner for your mouthpiece, that thing must be filthy!

I should have more clear in my post. I actually meant to remove tarnish. I routinely clean my pieces with a brush and dawn dish soap.

Ahh, for tarnish! I would try the aluminum foil and baking soda / salt trick, with hot water. That way you aren't removing silver along with the sulphur.

Only clean your mouthpiece after a bad practice session or a bad gig. That washes away the "bad" notes. Conversely, if you had a good practice session or gig, do NOT clean the mouthpiece - keep those good notes hanging around to "infect" the new notes in the next sessions/gigs.

Advice from a wise old tuba player my cousin the bartender knew.

I play tuba as well and can tell you that in tubas (and euphoniums), bad notes accumulate in tuning slides and also in the valves. This is particularly true of those instruments having vertical valve clusters (I have two of these -- one euph and an EEb compensating tuba). Flushing the bad notes out takes a lot of effort -- even with a clean mouthpiece.

My experience with trombones, however, is that in general the bad notes just proceed directly to the hand slide crook and then will exit through the water valve. Of course, with valved trombones (and especially double valve bass trombones), some notes will get caught and start to cluster in the valves. But it is easier to flush those notes out of the inline rotary valves than in the case of tubas (or even dependent valve bass trombones). With tubas and euphs, the situation is helped by having a water valve on each bottom crook (I had to add two to my 1924 Buescher tuba), and that reduces the problem substantially. I think that venting rotary valves on trombones may help as well, but I haven't tried this yet.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:55 pm Could you explain the mechanism of this? Tarnish results from a chemical reaction and isn't anything like particles attached to the surface. How does "shaking" deal with the molecular/chemical issues?

Where I work we have commercial grade ultrasonic cleaners, and we use them with water only on silver and brass items. I don't know what the mechanism is, but the silver items come out shiny, with the tarnish removed from the crevices, and the brass items have the "patina" removed as well.

Tarnish can be removed by completely mechanical means, so wouldn't it be possible for the cleaning action of the micro cavitation of an ultrasonic cleaner to do so?

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 7:18 am Tarnish can be removed by completely mechanical means, so wouldn't it be possible for the cleaning action of the micro cavitation of an ultrasonic cleaner to do so?

Maybe. I was trying to sort of imagine that. But -- particularly in the context of various claims to the contrary -- I wondered if someone here actually knew the physics/chemistry of it. Also, I'm not sure that tarnish can be completely removed by mechanical means without unnecessarily also removing some of the untarnished metal. I mean ... rust can be removed by completely mechanical means, but you end up at least abrading the surface of the underlying iron/steel. Evaporust is much more effective and non-abrasive.

I just wonder about how (and how effectively) an ultrasonic cleaner works in these circumstances. I've looked at getting one from time to time, but for the level of my "needs," it's never seemed to justify the expense or shelf space for yet another tool.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 7:27 amMaybe. I was trying to sort of imagine that. But -- particularly in the context of various claims to the contrary -- I wondered if someone here actually knew the physics/chemistry of it. Also, I'm not sure that tarnish can be completely removed by mechanical means without unnecessarily also removing some of the untarnished metal. I mean ... rust can be removed by completely mechanical means, but you end up at least abrading the surface of the underlying iron/steel. Evaporust is much more effective and non-abrasive.

I just wonder about how (and how effectively) an ultrasonic cleaner works in these circumstances. I've looked at getting one from time to time, but for the level of my "needs," it's never seemed to justify the expense or shelf space for yet another tool.

I've honestly never tried it on my own mouthpieces, just silver stuff at work. Mine just go in boiling water with some foil. But they do need to be very clean for that to work, and the bevels and such around the throat can collect crud, so maybe that's the type of stuff I'm seeing coming off in the ultrasonic at work.

It just seems a lot easier, quicker, cheaper, and effective to use Haggerty's on a silver mouthpiece. It only takes a couple of minutes to wash it and polish it. I guess that if I were handling a large number of mouthpieces in a commercial/production environment, then an ultrasonic setup (probably coupled with a chemical tarnish remover in the immersion) would make sense. But even then it might not be as effective as the Haggerty's, which contains a pretty effective tarnish inhibitor.

Now for my silver tuba ... some sort of immersion approach would be GREAT -- but likely prohibitively expensive.

I clean mine daily (with the horns I`m using at that time) with Hot water and the mouthpiece brush.
However , about twice a year I`ll gather all the mouthpieces I use in every horn I use and put them in the dishwasher and give them all the good HOT cleaning

Use to use a mouthpiece brush and some toothpaste…seemed to get the tarnish off as well. Later on I use some Flitz and a mouthpiece brush with hot water and they always come out quite clean. Only seem to do this about once per year. I tend to put them away dry and in a mouthpiece case in the trombone case. This seems to keep the tarnish to a minimum.

I actually got a bunch of plastic bags to put around mouthpieces that are not going to be used for a while. I should get some anti tarnish strips to throw in.

I also remember advice on how to keep silverware shiny and clean: use it. If you use your mouthpiece and wash it off, brush out the interior, and dry it off, that should keep it shiny without any need for polishing. When I see someone with a tarnished mouthpiece part of me wants to move a few steps away.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 1:48 pm When I see someone with a tarnished mouthpiece part of me wants to move a few steps away.

I've never tried that, but it seems like a good inoffensive and non-aggressive way to get desired social distancing. I'm just not sure that people would be able to pick out the tarnished mouthpiece bowl between my unpolished brass shank and Lexan rim.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 1:48 pm I actually got a bunch of plastic bags to put around mouthpieces that are not going to be used for a while. I should get some anti tarnish strips to throw in.

I also remember advice on how to keep silverware shiny and clean: use it. If you use your mouthpiece and wash it off, brush out the interior, and dry it off, that should keep it shiny without any need for polishing. When I see someone with a tarnished mouthpiece part of me wants to move a few steps away.

I most definitely agree. It’s usually always the second mouthpiece in the case that I never seem to use. I have this incessant habit of always having two in the case. It goes in clean, but oxidizes over time…

My wife tends to throw in some bay leaves into the clarinet case with the silver keys when she stores it for a long period of time, and for whatever reason, the keys stay untarnished.

I guess for me it’s a personal pride in my equipment that makes me keep it up, but then again I usually reserve those feelings for myself and don’t tend to be harsh on others for not. Some people seem to really like the ‘patina’ look, and many of them can play 10 times better than me…but then again, I was brought up in a system of spit shining boots and ironing creases into the uniform. Maybe that’s where my ‘attentiveness’ stems from…

atopper333 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:40 pm spit shinning

That sounds painful.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:58 pm

atopper333 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:40 pm spit shinning

That sounds painful.

Hahaha! Dang auto correct got me again!

They always say that.

(Mine is just totally off. I'll take the lumps for misspellings.)

USAF abandoned AFR 35-10 in 1994. They actually wanted boots to be polished but not shined, and certainly not spit shined. It was as rumored that a shine made a better reflection in night goggles, but most of the bullets I dodged were in the aircraft industry. Tarnish does not affect form, fit, or function. Regular use and cleaning wears it off. Logically, polishing may wear silver off quicker. From the smell of some of the trumpets in the section behind me, they have not a bath in decades. And that IS offensive.

OneTon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:57 pm USAF abandoned AFR 35-10 in 1994. They actually wanted boots to be polished but not shined, and certainly not spit shined. It was as rumored that a shine made a better reflection in night goggles, but most of the bullets I dodged were in the aircraft industry. Tarnish does not affect form, fit, or function. Regular use and cleaning wears it off. Logically, polishing may wear silver off quicker. From the smell of some of the trumpets in the section behind me, they have not a bath in decades. And that IS offensive.

I do agree on the lines of form, fit, or function…and I always preferred a good brush shine as I see it as more visibly appealing, which again is a matter of personal preference. In my profession, it was done to have as professional appearance as possible in an academy setting. Indoctrination to a certain degree I suppose. The practice faded in field use, especially in a desert environment, but the boots were always clean at the start of the day.

For me it will come down to the way I keep my equipment, and clean and well serviced equipment will always function better. Hygiene seems to be a large part of this equation as well.