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Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:33 am
by MTbassbone
I am curious about the Emotiva TA-1 integrated amplifier that has a low pass filter a 90 hz. I take this to mean all frequencies below 90 hz get sent to the subwoofer. However my sub has a low pass filter too. I have it set for 60 hz. Does this mean my subwoofer won't play frequencies between 61 hz and 90 hz?
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:38 am
by baileyman
Presumably the filters are switched?
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:40 am
by MTbassbone
baileyman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:38 am
Presumably the filters are switched?
Sorry I don't know what that means. When it comes to the details on hifi equipment I am a newbie. I know what I like and don't like sound wise. Unfortunately I don't have one to audition right now.
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:53 am
by baileyman
My own receivers, preamps may have filters available, but only by switching on, else they're off. If these guys have switches you should be able to control the filtering.
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:59 am
by MTbassbone
baileyman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:53 am
My own receivers, preamps may have filters available, but only by switching on, else they're off. If these guys have switches you should be able to control the filtering.
Not sure. Here is a link to a pic of the back panel:
https://darko.audio/2022/01/got-a-subwo ... id=1&pid=1
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:42 pm
by Jimkinkella
According to the manual: your receiver sub output is fixed as a 90hz low pass.
That means that everything (theoretically) below 90hz is always sent out that rca, the frequency is not adjustable, the filter cannot be changed or turned off.
The crossover high pass rcas have a fixed high pass filter at 90hz allowing everything above 90hz through.
The main out rcas and speaker level outputs have a switch that can allow those outputs to be either full range, or high passes at 90hz.
Page 26 Of the manual
If your subwoofer has a fixed (always on) filter at 60hz, then your subwoofer will never reproduce anything above 60 hz.
If you want your system to reproduce frequencies between 90hz and 60hz to need to use the loudspeaker l level outputs or main outs, and switch the receiver’s filter off for those outputs.
The limiting factor for what will then come out of system is the lf response of your primary loudspeakers.
They may or may not go low enough to meet your subwoofer at 60hz, or they may go below that 60hz crossover on your sun, the actual frequency response of your system gets a little unpredictable once you start mixing different types of systems together
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:06 pm
by MTbassbone
Jimkinkella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:42 pm
According to the manual: your receiver sub output is fixed as a 90hz low pass.
That means that everything (theoretically) below 90hz is always sent out that rca, the frequency is not adjustable, the filter cannot be changed or turned off.
The crossover high pass rcas have a fixed high pass filter at 90hz allowing everything above 90hz through.
The main out rcas and speaker level outputs have a switch that can allow those outputs to be either full range, or high passes at 90hz.
Page 26 Of the manual
If your subwoofer has a fixed (always on) filter at 60hz, then your subwoofer will never reproduce anything above 60 hz.
If you want your system to reproduce frequencies between 90hz and 60hz to need to use the loudspeaker l level outputs or main outs, and switch the receiver’s filter off for those outputs.
The limiting factor for what will then come out of system is the lf response of your primary loudspeakers.
They may or may not go low enough to meet your subwoofer at 60hz, or they may go below that 60hz crossover on your sun, the actual frequency response of your system gets a little unpredictable once you start mixing different types of systems together
Thanks Jim, I have a SVS SB-1000 Pro sub and it has an app where I can adjust the low pass filter (and a lot of other settings). I have it set to engage at 60 hz as I figured I didn't want anything higher coming out the sub. Maybe I should try it higher to see if I like it. Otherwise pass on this amp altogether. I have been considering getting the SVS Soundbase since it has quite a bit of power, a DAC, a sub out, and a streamer built in.
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:53 pm
by Jimkinkella
After a quick look at the sub specs, I see no problem at all running the sub up well over 100hz.
Spec sheets tend to ‘elaborate’ the truth a bit, but they’re showing a frequency response fairly flat over 200hz.
I’d suggest listening to the sub all by itself with a full range input signal, and use the app to run the crossover up and down, I’m guessing that there’s going to be an upper limit where the sun simply doesn’t sound that good, but it’s a fairly light fiber cone and should be able to move fairly quickly.
Since the amp / driver / and internal dsp were all designed to go together I wouldn’t be too worried about blowing anything up (within reason!)
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:16 pm
by 2bobone
Use the most critically elaborate component in your audio system --- your ears ---- and if it doesn't sound right, adjust it ! It is as personal as your perception of the sound of a trombone/leadpipe/acoustics/mouthpiece/brand/ combination. Trust. Your. Ears. Manufacturer's recommendations are exactly that --- recommendations.
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:30 am
by boneagain
Good notes all around! I especially agree with Bob's advice!
Is the reason you don't want to cross your woofer at a high frequency to avoid directionality (i.e. suddenly getting a lot of stuff apparently coming from that one location)?
I suspect the reason for the amp crossover frequency is that MOST small "main" speakers sound pretty crappy below about 90 Hz.
That 60 Hz to 90Hz range should be REALLY easy for your ears to pick out. Bass trombone C two lines below the staff is at the bottom of that range. If you tune your woofer crossover too low you WILL hear a "hole" in the speaker response. I suspect that hole will be more bothersome than any directionality.
Lots of technical analysis you COULD do. And Bob is more aware than most of ALL of that (lots of time in the recording engineer's "booth." Which brings us back to trying different settings and simply using your ears.
If it sounds good to you, it is good.
Re: Hifi Bass Management
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:30 am
by MTbassbone
Thanks everyone for all of the advice. I am going to keep auditioning amps while increasing the low pass filter setting to 90Hz to see if that helps. My short list is the SVS Soundbase Pro, Emotive TA1, and the Marantz PM7000N. I have a Cambridge Audio Topaz SR10, but it is really bright.