A research about the Schilke trombones (ST20, ST21, ST30, ST31)

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I've done some research about the Schilke trombones so decided to put it here. This first post is about the large bore Schilke models. Feel free to add info or experience you've got from any of those Schilke models.

The most interesting resource I've found so far comes from a text I found that explains all options. I think this text is from the origin poster near the start and it is probably written by Schilke. I remember this was what I read when I bought my ST20.
I also found a couple of pictures, one is of the poster from 2007 with the axial-valve and also another that could be later, as it promotes the Hagmann valve. It presents the Hagmann valve as the option for the ST20.

The ST20 came with the stainless axial valve as first choice but was obviously modular. It had different option for tuningslides as well as different bells with mixed alloys of laquer and also it could have different slide-options. The trombone could also be converted to a straight trombone

The production of the ST20 started in 2007 and very early they introduced the Hagmann as an option. I believe it was the axial valve that gave them an headache. The horn played flat and there was problems with the sound. Besides this they also had problems in the beginning with the slide, it was too tight, making it drag. The slide was fixed but other than that Schilke never admitted specific problems with the overall design, just that the trombone had some flaws in the beginning that were fixed.
I believe it was the axial valve that was the problem because the early axial valves were leaky. I believe the Hagmann valve option gave a bettet horn. When I search I find very few ST20 with an axial valve and no professional who plays a Schilke ST20 with an axial. The few professionals who play a ST20 have the Hagmann option. (If you find a professional who plays a ST20 with an axial put the name in the thread) Schike apparantly continued to market ST20 with both options until they changed the model number to ST21. The major difference then between a yellow brass ST20 with Hagmann and a ST21-Y2 is the ST21-Y2 isn't modular.

The ST21 wasn't modular but still I have found two types of non modular setups for the ST21. It is the model ST21-Y2 and ST21-G2 which have Hagmanns and looks exactly like my ST20 with Hagmann and then there is the model ST21-Y3 and the ST21-G3 with the Schilke own design rotary-valve. The ST21 production started in february 2014. Apparently the ST21-Y3 and ST21-G3 were their final versions. Schilke stopped production of the ST21 in 2016 when they acquired the Grenhoe trombones after have made trombones for about 10 years.

This is the text from one of their posters.

"ST20 Large Bore Symphonic Tenor Trombone

Valves
Axial Flow The Schilke Axial Flow Valve with its stainless steel rotor permits an even feel and response throughout all registers, producing an instrument that closely mimics the feel of a straight tenor trombone. Unlike some other designs, the Schilke Axial Flow Valve is incredibly maintenance-free, requiring a service schedule on par with that of a standard rotor.

Hagmann Valve The Rene Hagmann Free Flow Valve offers a well-balanced flow in all registers as well as a homogenous feel and a great ease of playing the musician can immediately appreciate. With its open sound and short throw, the Hagmann valve is a great alternative to the player looking for a balance between the warm expansiveness of the Axial Flow and the tighter brilliance of the standard rotor.

Additionally, all Schilke valves come standard with a custom adjustable wood-grain thumb rest.

Bells
Schilke trombone bells are 8 " hand-hammered bells available in Yellow or Rose Brass. Generally, a Yellow Brass bell will provide a strong fundamental sound with clarity and consistent overtone structure throughout all dynamic levels. With its higher copper content, a Rose Brass bell will provide a warm, rich sound with a great freedom to color the sound.

Handslides
Schilke ST20 hand slides are .547" large bore slides with chrome-plated inner tubes, yellow brass outer tubes, and nickel over sleeves. Our hand slides are available with a choice of two different end bow alloys (yellow brass or nickel) and bore sizes (tenor or bass crook). The yellow brass end bows offer a warm, centered sound, while the nickel end bows present a more brilliant and articulate sound. The tenor crook lends itself to a more focused sound, whereas the bass crook will offer a heavier, larger feel and sound. Three interchangeable brass leadpipes are also included:

1 Most compact sound, very clear articulation, most resistance

2 Standard leadpipe, more open sound than #1, more clear articulation than #3

3 Most open sound, somewhat more covered articulation, least resistance

Tuning Slides
There are four main tuning slide options available on Schilke trombones: Yellow Round, Rose Round, Yellow Square, and Rose Square. Square-shaped tuning slides will tend to play more compact and focused, while round tuning slides will play more freely and yield a somewhat wider sound. The choice of Yellow or Rose material will affect playing characteristics as well.

While the above information is a guideline, only you can determine which ST20 will suit your individual needs. Visit your nearest Schilke Authorized Dealer, contact us for availability, or make an appointment to visit the Schilke factory and test an ST20"

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The first poster from 2007

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Introducing the Hagmann as an option

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A research for the ST21-Y2/ST21-G2 and ST21-Y-3/ST21-G3

"The Schilke ST21 is a .547” tenor trombone that offers a fixed bell configuration with a Schilke designed and built rotary valve. Each component of the ST21 has been specifically selected to afford the performer the most efficient playing horn, while attaining the most vibrant sound, color and flexibility. Both models are available with either a hand-hammered lightweight gold brass or yellow brass bell. A narrow crook hand slide can be ordered as an optional choice. The ST21 is also offered with a Hagmann valve configuration. Optional Hagmann Valve – The “Rene Hagmann – Free Flow Valve” offers a well-balanced flow in all registers as well as a homogenous feel and a great ease of playing the musician can immediately appreciate. With its open sound and short throw, the Hagmann valve is a great alternative to the player looking for a balance between the warm expansiveness of the Axial Flow and the tighter brilliance of the standard rotor.Leadpipes:#1 – Standard leadpipe.#2 – More open sound, somewhat more covered articulation, least resistance. ST21-Y3 – Yellow Brass Bell / Schilke Valve ST21-G3 – Gold Brass Bell / Schilke Valve ST21-Y2 – Yellow Brass Bell / Hagmann Valve ST21-G2 – Gold Brass Bell / Hagmann ValveOPTION: Narrow Crook HandslideTrombone-CaseThe Schilke ST21 comes with a lightweight, hard shell, fiberglass case"

A search for the ST21-Y2

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A search for the ST21-Y3

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If I find the name of the one who promoted the ST20 I will put it here

I found this Schilke-artist, Daniel Cloutier, who plays a ST20 with Hagmann-valves. He is also a composer- He could be the one who did a video and promoted the ST20 back when I bought it. Anyway he has a pretty decent CV.
https://www.schilkemusic.com/artists/fe ... -cloutier/

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A Schilke artist who promoted the ST21-G3 was principal trombone Eric Crees at the Royal Opera House-Covent Garden

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Lemar-guillary, another Schilke artist was the one who promoted the ST30 at the time and his video was partly what made me interested in the ST30. I've got an ST30 as well. His video isn't around anymore but he is. He
also has a good CV.
https://www.schilkemusic.com/artists/fe ... -guillary/

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From the annoncement of the ST21-Y3 and ST21-G3 in February 2014