TromboneChat

I was always warned off refurbished/relaquered trombones as it can alter the tonal characteristics of the instrument. Has this process improved in recent years.

I’m currently looking at a couple of 2Bs on eBay which state they’ve been totally relaquered/silvered and refurbished. They’re vintage instruments and I don’t have chance to try before I buy.

Any ideas or advice from experience with refurbished instruments?

Thanks

The issue is mainly that you have to buff the instrument quite a lot to get it ready for refinishing, which removes a bit of material. And redoing a finish is a more intensive process that can really hurt how the horn plays if done incorrectly. If it's done well, the instrument will play a little differently, but still be great, and the people that can do that kind of top notch work aren't too common. If the horns you're looking at have been done by someone who knows what they're doing, then it's fine, but if it's just some guy who thought they could grab a spray can and go at it, avoid it.

They are refurbished by The H N White Company of Cleveland Ohio.
(Not sure if I’m allowed to say that?

That company does good looking finishes on the silver instruments, and normal brass lacquer instruments. They look like museum pieces. The crazy colored ones though ...

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:22 pm They are refurbished by The H N White Company of Cleveland Ohio.
(Not sure if I’m allowed to say that?

I bought a beautiful King Master cornet from them for quite a healthy price tag, some years ago. It’s a good playing horn, but the shiny silver finish started coming off with the first polish.

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:22 pm They are refurbished by The H N White Company of Cleveland Ohio.
(Not sure if I’m allowed to say that?

Same HN White Co.?

I usually prefer old ugly horns for this reason. But I have a refinished 32h that plays well. It has been heavily buffed and the slide has been widened. I don't have any info on the source of the refinish. It's still a great playing horn. Refinishing and mods do change instruments, but it might be unfair to just say off hand that they automatically become worse. It's a nice player.

If you're addicted to pretty finishes, you wind up taking risks on refinishing and mods. If you don't mind a little ugly, it's easier to find a better player.

Reedman1 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 11:19 am

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:22 pm They are refurbished by The H N White Company of Cleveland Ohio.
(Not sure if I’m allowed to say that?

I bought a beautiful King Master cornet from them for quite a healthy price tag, some years ago. It’s a good playing horn, but the shiny silver finish started coming off with the first polish.

What do you mean? Do you mean the silver plating flaked off when you polished it the first time? If that's the case, then they obviously didn't prep it correctly or had a very serious problem with the plating process. I hope you returned it for a refund.

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:57 am I was always warned off refurbished/relaquered trombones as it can alter the tonal characteristics of the instrument. Has this process improved in recent years.

I’m currently looking at a couple of 2Bs on eBay which state they’ve been totally relaquered/silvered and refurbished. They’re vintage instruments and I don’t have chance to try before I buy.

Any ideas or advice from experience with refurbished instruments?

Thanks

It's still the same process. They haven't improved on the buffing wheel. There's nothing to improve because it works very well. I have seen a couple horns that were so thin they didn't play well (they were early Bachs), but normally who's to say it won't play even better after buffing? Some people think that buffing a bell will ruin it 100% of the time, and I totally disagree. Especially vintage King bells which are pretty thick to start out with. But I haven't seen any of these HN White restorations in person, so I can't speak specifically to that.

Note that H.N. White Company is not King Musical Instruments. H.N. White is a group of White's descendants who maintain a Web site with King history and have a museum of restored instruments.

I have no idea how good the restorations are, but they are certainly asking top dollar for them.

Welcome, and Hello from us to Norway !
Given your location, I guess you want to get this right the first time.
There are no guarantees when you buy on ebay.
Ya puts in yer nickel and ya takes yer chances.

Below is a link the H.N. White Company Store:
They have 2B's for sale.
https://www.hnwhite.com/store
Note their customer approval trial policy on horns sold by them.
That shows their dedication to selling a good product.

Another option.....( I see that you're new here.)
This site has an extensive "Classifieds" section where there are some 2B's listed.
Unlike with ebay, you get to talk with the seller, who is usually a trombonist.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 2:19 pm It's still the same process. They haven't improved on the buffing wheel. There's nothing to improve because it works very well. I have seen a couple horns that were so thin they didn't play well (they were early Bachs), but normally who's to say it won't play even better after buffing? Some people think that buffing a bell will ruin it 100% of the time, and I totally disagree. Especially vintage King bells which are pretty thick to start out with. But I haven't seen any of these HN White restorations in person, so I can't speak specifically to that.

To this point , I recently got my vintage 3BF Silversonic back from Scott Sweeney. I sent it out to get the slide inners replaced and the King lacquer removed. Came back looking completely overhauled, with a nice brushed satin finish on the bell. He even saved the original leadpipe (which was one piece) and made it press fit.

The work was easily the best thing that could have been done for that horn -- the bell feels alive now and the response is better than before. It was already a great horn but yeah, buffing the entire bell section and slide outers really made the horn sing. Gave an old horn a new lease on life.

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:57 am I was always warned off refurbished/relaquered trombones as it can alter the tonal characteristics of the instrument. Has this process improved in recent years.

I wouldn't put much stock in that opinion, to be honest (unless it was a really bad job, or it was run over by a tractor). There might be perceptible differences to you as the player in sound or response or how you feel playing it, but rest assured, out front I'd wager you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference from behind a screen.

jonathanharker wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:48 pm

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:57 am I was always warned off refurbished/relaquered trombones as it can alter the tonal characteristics of the instrument. Has this process improved in recent years.

I wouldn't put much stock in that opinion, to be honest (unless it was a really bad job, or it was run over by a tractor). There might be perceptible differences to you as the player in sound or response or how you feel playing it, but rest assured, out front I'd wager you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference from behind a screen.

TOTALLY agree!!

Unless you played the horns extensively BEFORE the restoration, you have no way to know how it actually played/sounded!!

Sometimes a careful rebuild WILL help a horn play better, built up stress & tension are definitely sound/response killers!!!

I would be hard pressed to buy a horn without the chance to play it first! Even several horns of the same model will play slightly differently.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 2:09 pm

Reedman1 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 11:19 am

I bought a beautiful King Master cornet from them for quite a healthy price tag, some years ago. It’s a good playing horn, but the shiny silver finish started coming off with the first polish.

What do you mean? Do you mean the silver plating flaked off when you polished it the first time? If that's the case, then they obviously didn't prep it correctly or had a very serious problem with the plating process. I hope you returned it for a refund.

Yes, the silver plating wiped off with the first polish. I really should have returned the horn, but they weren’t particularly easy to deal with, so I punted. The horn still plays great, so not a total loss; but for what I wound up getting, I should have paid much less.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 12:50 pm

BBB wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:22 pm They are refurbished by The H N White Company of Cleveland Ohio.
(Not sure if I’m allowed to say that?

Same HN White Co.?

No, I don't think it is despite what you might read on the website. If I'm not mistaken, I believe those are done, and then sold, by a shop called Beeman Brass Works. They are known for outstanding restoration work and people send their horns (mostly tubas, it seems) from all over the country for them to work their magic.

Reedman1 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 11:16 am

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 2:09 pm

What do you mean? Do you mean the silver plating flaked off when you polished it the first time? If that's the case, then they obviously didn't prep it correctly or had a very serious problem with the plating process. I hope you returned it for a refund.

Yes, the silver plating wiped off with the first polish. I really should have returned the horn, but they weren’t particularly easy to deal with, so I punted. The horn still plays great, so not a total loss; but for what I wound up getting, I should have paid much less.

I have heard similar stories about a well-known Music Store/Custom Shop back in the 1970s. They are out of business now, so I will keep the store name anonymous. The silver plating was so thin that it wiped off after a couple of wipe-downs with a polishing cloth. It happens…….especially if the shop folks are not well versed in silver plating preparation and application.

Reedman1 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 11:16 am

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 2:09 pm

What do you mean? Do you mean the silver plating flaked off when you polished it the first time? If that's the case, then they obviously didn't prep it correctly or had a very serious problem with the plating process. I hope you returned it for a refund.

Yes, the silver plating wiped off with the first polish. I really should have returned the horn, but they weren’t particularly easy to deal with, so I punted. The horn still plays great, so not a total loss; but for what I wound up getting, I should have paid much less.

What did you polish it with?

brassmedic wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 8:15 pm

Reedman1 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 11:16 am

Yes, the silver plating wiped off with the first polish. I really should have returned the horn, but they weren’t particularly easy to deal with, so I punted. The horn still plays great, so not a total loss; but for what I wound up getting, I should have paid much less.

What did you polish it with?

A polishing clog for silver-plated brass instruments. Don’t remember what brand, but I got it from my repairman, who was highly ethical and very careful with instruments.