TromboneChat

Hi all,

Dose anyone have any experience with O’Malley Trombone Bells?
I am very interested in a 42 style bell they make.
https://www.omalleyhorns.com/products/trombone-bells

Thank you.

Benn Hansson has one in 9 inches, he loves it. I'm thinking about one as well.

Keep in mind what makes a Bach bell sound like a Bach is the heat treatment- even with Miles spinning them very well, they are still not exactly like a Bach would be in the end. That said... they are still awesome.

Thank you Aidan.

I was just looking at the updated BrassArk website and found a cool tenor trombone made by O'Malley Brass.

https://brassark.com/maker_horns/orches ... y-pricing/

I'm getting more and more interested in what they make!

What is up with the finish on those bells? They all have hand print shaped tarnish on them, even in the website photos.

I snagged an O'Malley sterling flare recently (viewtopic.php?p=241119). I really like it.

I understand the O'Malley referenced above is the fabricator's actual name, but it's still an unfortunate situation, where O'Malley is also one of those cheap Chinese stencil brands. I take it these brands are not connected in any way other than this coincidence?

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:19 am I understand the O'Malley referenced above is the fabricator's actual name, but it's still an unfortunate situation, where O'Malley is also one of those cheap Chinese stencil brands. I take it these brands are not connected in any way other than this coincidence?

No, not connected.

As far as I've read, O'Malley Musical Instruments (the stencil brand) is one of the better places to get a Chinese horn. Not as well known as Wessex or Mack Brass, but they do some degree of QC on their horns. Still, based on their pricing the only thing that I would choose them over the others for is the cimbasso. Wessex prices theirs outrageously now, like a lot of their other stock.

Meanwhile, O'Malley Brass Instruments (the custom shop) is a 4-person team out of Chicago led by Miles O'Malley that makes some really cool custom stuff. They have a bunch of original mandrels and can make any new one you might want, and then spin a bell on it. I can't think of another North American company that offers that.

Miles makes great bells.

I've ordered two flares from him spun up to 7.8 inches on his Bach mandrels - one was a very thin one piece bell with a brass wire which I ended up selling, and the other is a steel wired, slightly thicker one piece, which works better for me.

Try it before you buy it, because it won't neccessarily be like a traditional "Bach" bell, but Miles does very good work.

muschem wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:00 am I snagged an O'Malley sterling flare recently (viewtopic.php?p=241119). I really like it.

Wow that looks great!

ngrinder wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:38 pm Miles makes great bells.

I've ordered two flares from him spun up to 7.8 inches on his Bach mandrels - one was a very thin one piece bell with a brass wire which I ended up selling, and the other is a steel wired, slightly thicker one piece, which works better for me.

Try it before you buy it, because it won't neccessarily be like a traditional "Bach" bell, but Miles does very good work.

Thank you!
Everyone's feedback on the O'Malley Brass seems very positive
I'm going to have a CAIDEX valve section and a Meinschmidt valve section built. And I'm looking for bells to pair with them.

I've reached out about the pricing for developing a mandrel, but I'd be really curious what their Bach bells would be like with some sort of heat treatment

Hard to find much info online about the bells. What mandrels are being used, exactly?

bassbone1993 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:01 pm I've reached out about the pricing for developing a mandrel, but I'd be really curious what their Bach bells would be like with some sort of heat treatment

They are heat treated, just not the same as Bach does.

Miles does great work, I just ordered 3 bells for customers, and a cool variant of a 45 bell for myself (medium weight, gold stem, yellow flare at 8.5").

After making some sales in the collection, I've actually been planning to get one of their 42 bells myself.

bassbone1993 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:01 pm I've reached out about the pricing for developing a mandrel, but I'd be really curious what their Bach bells would be like with some sort of heat treatment

I am also curious about the cost of a custom mandrel..I have a 1920 Conn with a huge bell throat which i would like to copy to use on my «frankentenor».. please let us know What You find out!

Tbarh wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:08 am

bassbone1993 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:01 pm I've reached out about the pricing for developing a mandrel, but I'd be really curious what their Bach bells would be like with some sort of heat treatment

I am also curious about the cost of a custom mandrel..I have a 1920 Conn with a huge bell throat which i would like to copy to use on my «frankentenor».. please let us know What You find out!

I'll post what I find out here. I threw out the idea of developing a Duo Gravis mandrel to them.

muschem wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:00 am I snagged an O'Malley sterling flare recently (viewtopic.php?p=241119). I really like it.

I have an Edwards sterling silver bell. Good to see another American maker doing SS.

I love the sound of my SS bell. Rich with lows and highs. The only thing that is a little short for SS is does not light up brighter with loud playing. Seems most conductors and Directors hear a more solid hit on notes on the brass bell.

When playing in symphony with pieces that are generally softer and do not have any pyro volumes, I use the sterling bell and they really like the sound.

I practice with SS bell the most. Seem it teaches me to have a better sound on all horns.

What do you find on your SS bell?

whitbey wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 9:43 am

muschem wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:00 am I snagged an O'Malley sterling flare recently (viewtopic.php?p=241119). I really like it.

I have an Edwards sterling silver bell. Good to see another American maker doing SS.

I love the sound of my SS bell. Rich with lows and highs. The only thing that is a little short for SS is does not light up brighter with loud playing. Seems most conductors and Directors hear a more solid hit on notes on the brass bell.

When playing in symphony with pieces that are generally softer and do not have any pyro volumes, I use the sterling bell and they really like the sound.

I practice with SS bell the most. Seem it teaches me to have a better sound on all horns.

What do you find on your SS bell?

I'm using the O'Malley sterling flare (to clarify - this is a detachable flare, not a complete bell) in a bit of a franken-bone setup at the moment, so it is perhaps not easy to draw general conclusions about sterling as a material based on my experience with it. I currently have it paired with the red brass bell stem from my Sauer model Shires, as the original flare from that bell met with an untimely end, courtesy of a falling ladder. I no longer have the slide that my Sauer model came with, so I've been using it with one of my carbon Butler slides. And, the original valve section, which was a Shires dual bore valve, was replaced with an Olsen axial valve setup. Sort of an odd mix of materials and components from which to extrapolate any meaningful trend. That said, I do find the combination interesting. If I swap flares between an 8.5" carbon flare and the 8" sterling O'Malley, the sterling flare makes it easier to project more sound, and maybe reduces the breadth of sound or complexity of the overtones vs. a full red brass setup somewhat, emphasizing the fundamental tone more. In any case, I like it.

I do have a couple other full sterling bells to compare with, though. I had previously been under the impression that sterling was really difficult to push past redline. My Shires BII sterling bass defies that notion... it lights up very easily when pushed. With a single bore .562 slide it leans pretty heavily toward what I'd call a commercial sound, actually. Changing to a dual bore slide and a different material for the mouthpiece and/or leadpipe tames some of that edge, and (for me) makes it a good general orchestral setup. I only recently received my T1 sterling bell tenor setup, but I can say that it is also nice and edgy when I want it to be, with a focused, clear tone at softer dynamics. I really enjoy it so far. I believe my sterling alto bell should be shipping soon, so that will be interesting to compare.

Sterling in general is an interesting beast. Closer to the face (as in leadpipe), I perceive the impact as a darker sound and more covered/rounder articulations with less feedback... not necessarily "dead", but perhaps some reduction in the higher overtones in favor of the fundamental. Moving out to the bell, I'm sure those same tendencies exist, but the effect is somewhat reduced (at least to my ear) - and I think this is generally true for most material changes... closer to the face = higher impact. Pairing a sterling bell with a different material (I like nickel) in the leadpipe, slide outers, crooks, etc. adds some of those missing overtones back in for me. With that combination, I feel like I retain much of the punch that sterling packs, but in a more balanced overall feel and sound. I have played sterling setups that I did not like. Some can feel way too heavy/muddy. I don't get that with the O'Malley flare nor with my Shires bells.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:32 pm

bassbone1993 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:01 pm I've reached out about the pricing for developing a mandrel, but I'd be really curious what their Bach bells would be like with some sort of heat treatment

They are heat treated, just not the same as Bach does.

What’s the difference between their heat treatment process? Thinking about preordering their NY50 bell.

felixbone wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 6:05 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:32 pm

They are heat treated, just not the same as Bach does.

What’s the difference between their heat treatment process? Thinking about preordering their NY50 bell.

Being that Bach will not disclose publicly the details of their heat treat process…. That is not likely something that will be able to be defined and well verified.

Cheers,
Andy

First I have heard of heat treatment for a bell. What would this accomplish? Seems like it would be an annealing process that would soften the bell. Would this smooth out the tone and make it less harsh?

"Heat treating" is a regular part of working with brass. You simply cannot make sheet/tube brass into the shapes it needs to be to make an instrument without heat treatment/annealing. Some parts may only require application of heat once in their formation. (valve knuckles for example) Others, like bells, require several heat treats at various times during the process. It isn't just a "once and done" type of thing. That is part of the skill of the instrument maker. Knowing when and how much heat to apply for the part being made.

There have certainly been cases of the terms "heat treated" and "annealed" being used as marketing pitch. Benge for example sold their bells as being "annealed". EVERY bell made is annealed at some point of the process, regardless of who makes it.

There are some makers who "normalize" parts before final assembly as well, which is a low temperature oven cycle that does not anneal the part but can impact the grain structure of the metal and relieve some of the stresses in very work-hardened parts.

I have heard folks that used to work at Shires claim, for example, that baking inner slide tubes in a kiln can harden them. I believe that is a misunderstanding of the process and that the intent was to "normalize" the tube, as inner slide tubes are typically drawn down significantly from their raw tube blank. As a result, the tube off of the draw bench is extremely hard and has lots of internal stress in the grain structure.

This can be done on bells, as well. On an unsoldered bead, the bell can be normalized or fully annealed (or whatever heat treat mojo might happen) after beading. On a soldered bead, the bell must be heat treated before the bead is rolled and soldered. Baking a soldered bead at normalizing temperature will melt the solder out of the bead. Baking the bell after the bead is rolled, but before soldering, will cause an oxide layer to form in the closed bead and will make soldering it near impossible.

Thanks guys.