TromboneChat

This is a huge longshot but...

I'm looking to buy Olds Opera 023 slide parts or the slide itself. My slide has been damaged and it will not last forever. Just putting this out there to see if anyone has any access to parts.

I'm not sure if the Opera O15 or O25 slide parts are the same, but if they are I would be interested in the slide as well.

Please contact if you have any slide or parts, or if you know of someone that does.

EDIT: If no Opera parts are available, I've been told that a Bach 42 or Bach 50 slide will fit. If anyone has a spare one PM me.

Hi. Your query reminds me of a conversation I recently had with the Slide Doctor, Ray Splawn. I've held off on buying an Opera due to the replacement parts dilemma. I've been researching this quandary myself. I will share information and links when I get home and have access to my computer. I'll PM you soon. Or alternatively, send me an email via the address in my profile and I'll reply.

Larry

What all parts do you need? Inners? Outers? End crook?

From the table below (taken from a previous Trombone Forum posting):

Opera series  (Professional instruments)
                               Bore I.D.   Bell Diam      Description
Opera O15                 0.547"        8.5"            Symphonic bore; Nickel-silver thin-gauge bell.
Opera Fanfare O115   0.547"        8.5"            Symphonic bore; Yellow brass bell.
Opera O23                 0.547"        8.5"            Symphonic bore w F attach; Nickel-silver thin-gauge bell.
Symphony O25           0.554"        8.5"            Large bore w F attach; Red brass bell.

I would guess that an O-15 slide would be a replacement for the O-23 slide.  The O-25 is quite different, not to mention a larger bore! 

JohnL or John Noxon would probably have more information. 

Quote from: JohnL on Jun 21, 2017, 11:05PMWhat all parts do you need? Inners? Outers? End crook?

Inner and outer slides. But inner is much more important. Ray miraculously fixed my slide (I don't know how it's done!) but it's very delicate now. Inners were pretty much glued together. Here's some pics from it before:

Quote from: Posaunus on Jun 21, 2017, 11:08PMFrom the table below (taken from a previous Trombone Forum posting):

Opera series  (Professional instruments)
                               Bore I.D.   Bell Diam      Description
Opera O15                 0.547"        8.5"            Symphonic bore; Nickel-silver thin-gauge bell.
Opera Fanfare O115   0.547"        8.5"            Symphonic bore; Yellow brass bell.
Opera O23                 0.547"        8.5"            Symphonic bore w F attach; Nickel-silver thin-gauge bell.
Symphony O25           0.554"        8.5"            Large bore w F attach; Red brass bell.

I would guess that an O-15 slide would be a replacement for the O-23 slide.  The O-25 is quite different, not to mention a larger bore!That information is not correct, or is at least incomplete.

I'll quote myself from an earlier thread, if no one minds. Quote from: JohnL on Sep 15, 2016, 08:36AMA couple years back, I came into possession of a batch of Olds catalogs from the 1960's and 1970's that shed some light on the whole question of the bore on the Opera series.

Catalogs from the early 1960's (circa 1961-1962) give the bore as .547". The 1966 and later catalogs give the bore as .554". Coincidentally, the Opera Fanfare Model (O-115) seems to have been dropped from the lineup sometime between the c.1962 catalogs and the 1966 catalog.
These catalogs are all on my site, if anyone wishes to verify...

But the bore of the inner slide being .554" or .547" isn't what Farore needs to be concerned with. If she wants to replace the inners and keep the original outers, the important dimension is the OD of the stockings. This is where it gets messy. John Sandhagen just put a new set of inners on my O-25; they're Bach 50 tubes (.562" bore). Apparently, there are no readily-available .547" tubes that fit. Of course, if you want that bass slide/tenor bell sort of thing, it's not a problem.

Of course, a full inner/outer retube is an option, but that runs into money - and the tech still has to fit the outers to the end crook and the inners to the cork barrels.

Farore, if there is one tube that is in considerably worse shape than the other, John Sandhagen might be able to help you. When he retubed my O-25, one of the tubes actually wasn't too bad; afaik, it's still in his parts collection.

It's definitely the upper inner tube (the lead pipe section). The outer tube is indeed very weak, but the inner was to the point of possibly unrepairable. SlideDr ran into the same problem trying to find a part that fit. The slide could be rebuilt, but the issue is that I really want a slide that matches the same tone and being lightweight, and few slides are made of all nickel silver. The closest I found to that criteria would be a yamaha slide, but I don't think that slide would fit.

It was mentioned that if the leadpipe breaks in removing it, I could go for removable leadpipe, though I'd rather not.

Just an observation… My Opera slide receiver matches up to a Bach 42B slide.
If you have a friend that has a Bach 42B, try it on your Opera.
You could find a used 42B nickel slide, and probably be just fine.

If I remember right, Leo (or someone) had a parts Opera for sale once.
Might be a long shot.... but remember someone having a parts Opera for sale. (I think).

BTW - how the heck did that happen??!!?? 

Quote from: tsmart on Jun 22, 2017, 10:09AMIf I remember right, Leo (or someone) had a parts Opera for sale once.
Might be a long shot.... but remember someone having a parts Opera for sale. (I think).

BTW - how the heck did that happen??!!?? 

I took my trombone (in the case) out of my car (a tall SUV) to practice but completely forgot to bring it in the house. (it was in the trunk and I was taking in groceries too). Next day in the early morning I start to back out and CRUNCH. I moved forward and the case protected every part of the horn except that portion of the slide. I think it's because I kept a bottle of slide-o-mix in the outside compartment.

So if you're thinking of a case, get a Pro Pac contoured trombone case. Protected my entire horn from the crush (minus my fault for the bottle). The case is still fine too, except for the tire marks.

ouch

Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 08:49AMIt's definitely the upper inner tube (the lead pipe section). The outer tube is indeed very weak, but the inner was to the point of possibly unrepairable. SlideDr ran into the same problem trying to find a part that fit. The slide could be rebuilt, but the issue is that I really want a slide that matches the same tone and being lightweight, and few slides are made of all nickel silver. The closest I found to that criteria would be a yamaha slide, but I don't think that slide would fit.Tenons can be changed...

Quote from: tsmart on Jun 22, 2017, 10:55AMouch

I went through the 7 stages of grief when it happened.

If anyone has the parts or means to replace them I'm still interested

Quote from: tsmart on Jun 22, 2017, 10:09AMIf I remember right, Leo (or someone) had a parts Opera for sale once.
Might be a long shot.... but remember someone having a parts Opera for sale. (I think).

BTW - how the heck did that happen??!!?? 
Yes, I still have the '59 O-15 Opera parts slide. The slide is complete minus one inner slide tube and the bore is 0.554". From JohnL's info it should be a 0.547 but I've measured it several times and even tried my Getzen 0.547 outer slide on it with no avail because the Olds inner was just too big.

It's available if you want to make an offer.

Thanks,
Leo

I should mention that the slide I have is the .547 not the .553 or .554, so I could use a different slide, but I'd rather not.

Quote from: LeoInFL on Jun 22, 2017, 01:10PMThe slide is complete minus one inner slide tube and the bore is 0.554".Leo, do you have the leadpipe? If so, your parts plus the one inner that John Sandhagen has would make a complete slide.

Quote from: JohnL on Jun 22, 2017, 01:52PMLeo, do you have the leadpipe? If so, your parts plus the one inner that John Sandhagen has would make a complete slide.
Yes, it's the lower inner slide tube that broke off. Looking down the upper inner tube I can see the edge of the leadpipe (it's fixed, not removable).

I don't know if it helps any, but I still have what remains of the lower inner slide tube.

Quote from: LeoInFL on Jun 22, 2017, 04:03PMYes, it's the lower inner slide tube that broke off. Looking down the upper inner tube I can see the edge of the leadpipe (it's fixed, not removable).

I don't know if it helps any, but I still have what remains of the lower inner slide tube.I'm pretty sure the tube John Sandhagen has is the lower, so that would make a complete slide if Farore wished to go that direction.

Quote from: JohnL on Jun 22, 2017, 04:06PMI'm pretty sure the tube John Sandhagen has is the lower, so that would make a complete slide if Farore wished to go that direction.
But isn't yours from an 0-25? Farore's is a .547, and I thought the 0-25 was a larger bore than that.

Quote from: Euphanasia on Jun 22, 2017, 05:38PMBut isn't yours from an 0-25? Farore's is a .547, and I thought the 0-25 was a larger bore than that.
Would the connector fit if it's a full slide?

Quote from: Euphanasia on Jun 22, 2017, 05:38PMBut isn't yours from an 0-25? Farore's is a .547, and I thought the 0-25 was a larger bore than that.But Leo's partial slide is .554", so those parts should all fit.

The stocking on my old tube measures .595"; if Leo wouldn't mind verifying that his is the same?

I have an O-23 (s/n 405xxx) and an O-25 (s/n 943xxx); the tenons match up fine.

I think Ray said mine was .591 but I might be wrong

I've seen several Operas in great
condition very reasonably priced.
If you like the instrument enough
you should buy a backup to either
play or use for parts.
Jim Bermann

Yes, mine measures 0.595"

Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 06:44PMWould the connector fit if it's a full slide?
From what I gathered (switching slides around a while back), an 0-23 & 0-25 slide WILL interchange.
Also, a Olds P-22 bass trombone slide will interchange.
Also, a Bach 42B slide will interchange (and 42B & 50B slides are suppose to interchange, so in theory a Bach 50 slide should fit too).

So you have several options (in my mind), of finding a slide that the tenon/connectors - do interchange with Olds.

I guess I'll have to put up that I'm looking for a Bach 42/50 nickel silver slide or an O-25 slide. If anyone has it used

I've been watching this thread develop over the last few days. In fact, I was the first person to reply. I've just been to busy to follow up. We could almost spin it off into another thread. Coincidentally, I think I was aware of this situation about a few weeks ago before you posted. I was actually talking to Slide Doctor (Ray) about another thread concerning replacement tubes for older Conn 8H/88H. He lives about an hour away from me, so I bug him semi-regularly. Anyway, he said it is getting harder to find replacement parts for the vintage horn, especially those that are no longer in production or where the specs have changed. He mentioned an Olds Opera, which I assume was yours, that was in dire shape. So, I was actually already scouring the net in an attempt to help and then I saw your thread.

Quote from: Jim Bermann on Jun 22, 2017, 08:06PMI've seen several Operas in great
condition very reasonably priced...
you should buy a backup...
We probably encountered the same ones Jim, for under a grand. Brass exchange had one for several weeks. But yeah, I was thinking the same thing: backup/parts.

Quote from: JohnL on Jun 22, 2017, 08:09AMThat information is not correct, or is at least incomplete.

I'll quote myself from an earlier thread, if no one minds.
These catalogs are all on my site, if anyone wishes to verify...

But the bore of the inner slide being .554" or .547" isn't what Farore needs to be concerned with. If she wants to replace the inners and keep the original outers, the important dimension is the OD of the stockings.
I for one, am glad you checked in John. I love your site, catalogs and all! I just wonder how accurate Olds was in the catalogs. There seems to be more than a few discrepancies with the stated specs for various years, at least that I've heard about. Maybe we should start another thread or database elsewhere (the "other site"?) and just start gathering specs from owners/players and compare to the catalogs. Anyway, Ray confirmed what you're saying about the stockings being the decisive consideration.

Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 01:22PMI should mention that the slide I have is the .547 not the .553 or .554
Slide Doctor said it was weird. Tenor tubes with bass stockings.

Quote from: LeoInFL on Jun 22, 2017, 01:10PMYes, I still have the '59 O-15 Opera parts slide. The slide is complete minus one inner slide tube...
Quote from: JohnL on Jun 22, 2017, 04:06PMI'm pretty sure the tube John Sandhagen has is the lower, so that would make a complete slide if Farore wished to go that direction.
So, waiting for John Sandhagen to chime in or someone to contact him.

Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 08:49AMIt was mentioned that if the leadpipe breaks in removing it, I could go for removable leadpipe, though I'd rather not.
Quote from: LeoInFL on Jun 22, 2017, 04:03PMYes, it's the lower inner slide tube that broke off. Looking down the upper inner tube I can see the edge of the leadpipe (it's fixed, not removable).

Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 01:03PMIf anyone has the parts or means to replace them I'm still interested
Quote from: LeoInFL on Jun 22, 2017, 01:10PMIt's available if you want to make an offer.

Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 08:49AMbut the issue is that I really want a slide that matches the same tone
Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 01:22PMso I could use a different slide, but I'd rather not.
Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 08:49AMif the leadpipe breaks in removing it, I could go for removable leadpipe, though I'd rather not.
Quote from: Farore on Jun 22, 2017, 01:03PMI went through the 7 stages of grief when it happened.

If you'll pardon me saying, I think you are still going through grief. I had some work done on my Bach 36 slide with a different tech. I wanted so badly to have it immediately remedied; I made compromises that I now regret and paid too much for. The tech did a good job, but I should have let Ray or another tech who respects vintage trombones, do it the right way. Another way to put it: you could probably find a Ford engine to fit inside a Corvette. But, would it really still be a Corvette?

It looks like you have several forum members that are trying to help be happy and preserve your Olds Opera. My recommendation would be to restore it and not create a Frankenbone you might regret. It seems like you can play the Opera. So, do so while the other slide is built. Then maybe play the new one. I'll continue with the car analogy. I usually keep the best one of the worn tires when I get a new set. It becomes my spare instead of the undersized donut tire. Then at least I have a tire that's the same size, even it's worn. But, this is just my opinion. For all who say I'm being nosy, I say:

Quote from: dj kennedy on Nov 30, 2009, 06:52PMthe fellowship  of  the slide

p.s. Here are a couple of links to companies I found while researching. I'm sure there are others. M/K drawing might have something. Slide Doctor may already have found and discussed with you, but I'll send Ray the links and maybe to this thread too. Good luck!
 
http://www.votawtool.com/inside-slide-tube-bach-strad-50-50b-olds-o-25.html

http://www.jlsmithco.com/tubing-and-pipes/trombone-inside-slide-tube-fits-bach50-50b-and-olds


(mods this isn't meant to be an advert.)
 

 

Yeah and everyone is really helpful. Ray came in contact with someone that does have two operas.

Main reason is, is that I normally live in a very isolated area (nearest anything is 3 hours away) but right now I'm close by a lot of places, so if I can pick up something from a shop, it would probably be here.