TromboneChat

I have S.E. Shires bell. ( 2ylwfa6 ) bell ) Obviously, is it a 2 piece bell, light weight, with un-solded bead. Does the F mean, f- attachment? A means annealed? Then, what does the 6 mean. What would be the approximate build time frame? It plays very nice. The complete horn, is similar to the Alessi model, except this horn is all yellow brass, with Rotax valve.

Just curious.

The terms have gotten intense. I have a 2Y and 2RVE.

2 = Two piece, standard construction
Y = Yellow brass
LW = Lightweight (lighter than "M" and regular, of course)

I don't know what F, or A6 means. I thought it might be treatment, but those are indicated by a "T" (e.g. 2YLWT8. Maybe F = french bead?

I think FA stands for "freaking awesome" or "funk adjusted"

Matt K wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:00 am 2 = Two piece, standard construction
Y = Yellow brass
LW = Lightweight (lighter than "M" and regular, of course)

I don't know what F, or A6 means. I thought it might be treatment, but those are indicated by a "T" (e.g. 2YLWT8. Maybe F = french bead?

1st 3, are obvious, and on the Shires website. F could mean French, but bead looks like, a normal bead. A could mean annealed, which is a heat treatment (I prefer, the term, heat conditioning).

The 6 is a mystery. According to Shire's website, even numbers are unsoldered beads. However, they don't list 6, in their bell construction list.

Guess I need to email Shires, and wait for a response. Thx

Can probably call Shires and ask. They will love to talk to customers about their horns.

Type 3, 4, and 6 bells actually do exist but they don’t make them; they were never mass produced as far as I know. 6 is an unsoldered, one piece bell (kind of like some Yamaha bells). 3,4 are a special type of construction… I want to say maybe even a three piece bell, but I can’t remember.

I would bet A6 is some kind of annealing treatment, but that’s speculation.

etbone wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:24 pm
The 6 is a mystery. According to Shire's website, even numbers are unsoldered beads. However, they don't list 6, in their bell construction list.

Guess I need to email Shires, and wait for a response. Thx

6 would be a one-piece bell with unsoldered bead.

Shires uses a positional description, which is fine, except that some values are implicit.

The first letter designates instrument (S)mall tenor, (T)enor, or (B)ass. "T" may be implicit.

Next comes a Roman number (I, II) describing the bell mandrel. The I mandrel is Conn-ish, and the II mandrel is Bach-ish. "I" may be implicit, particularly when "T" is implicit. I'm not sure if I/II mandrels exist for S bells.

Next comes the bell construction, a number from 1- 8. Odd numbers have soldered beads, even numbers have unsoldered beads. 5 is a one-piece, soldered bell. I don't know if any 6 bells exist.

Next comes the bell material: [G]old, [R]ed, or [Y]ellow brass. Shires makes silver bells, but I don't know how they are designated. Two piece bells (1, 2, 7, 8--3 and 4 are discontinued) may have different metals used for the tail and the flare.

The bell weight is next: XLW, LW, M, H. There may be an implicit standard weight between M and H.

Finally there are the extra secret-sauce treatments. Tx seem to be bell flare treatments, and Ax seem to be annealing treatments.

Matt K wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 3:54 pm Type 3, 4, and 6 bells actually do exist but they don’t make them; they were never mass produced as far as I know. 6 is an unsoldered, one piece bell (kind of like some Yamaha bells). 3,4 are a special type of construction… I want to say maybe even a three piece bell, but I can’t remember.

I would bet A6 is some kind of annealing treatment, but that’s speculation.

There are a few TI-5 bells out of captivity: I own one of them, a TI-5GLW.

I played a BII3Y back in the day.

Once played a 3GM TB. 2 piece? Something else? Gold brass, medium. Rim wire was bronze instead of steel? Best Shires bell I’ve played so far.

Ah, I knew I looked this up, this is what I found last year from what Ben Griffin reported:

viewtopic.php?p=12941&hilit=Type+3#p12941

ben_griffin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:17 am Type 3 bells were a step along the path to the type 7 bells (that are now our most popular). The type 3 is a two piece bell (stem and flare) with a seamed flare. This allowed us to distribute the thickness of metal a particular way and was a common thing in brass manufacture until about the last 80/90 or so years. Your is of this construction, with a soldered beadwire in standard weight red brass.

From SE Shires..... mystery solved.

SE Shires Info

From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]

Wed, Jul 3 at 8:13 AM

Hi Randall,
Thanks so much for reaching out! It looks like your bell is a traditional two-piece yellow lightweight bell with a French beadwire and special annealing treatment. If you’re looking for the year of production, we’d just need the serial number of your horn which could be found on the slide receiver of your horn.
All the best,

Aha called it!

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:14 amAha called it!

Well, you did miss, the bell type. It is a two piece bell. (It's ok, others missed it, also.)

Yeah, Matt, what do you know??? Booooooo

(I hope the irony and sarcasm is apparent here, lol! I feel like Matt basically nailed it)

It's round and has bark. It must be a tree.
It feels like a moving rope. It's a snake.
It's flat and rough and broad. I tell you it's a wall.

Three blind men describing an elephant, until it *trumpets*.

tee hee