TromboneChat

Is there any mnemonics for the ledger lines and spaces above and below the bass clef staff like "Good Boys Do Fine Always" & "All Cows Eat Grass"? Thanks in advance.

The first ledger line is C. Second and up are the treble clef (Every Good Boy Does Find). Note above 1st ledger line is D. Then we're into treble clef (FACE).

Hope this helps.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:00 am The first ledger line is C. Second and up are the treble clef (Every Good Boy Does Find). Note above 1st ledger line is D. Then we're into treble clef (FACE).

Hope this helps.

I know the names intellectually but I need to use mnemonics to help me "feel" them instead of having that momentary pause thinking of them.

I think that momentary pause is when learning happens. Mnemonics prevent true learning, in my experience.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:23 am Mnemonics prevent true learning, in my experience.

Mnemonics are a stepping stone to true learning.


IMO

Philonius wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:53 am

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:23 am Mnemonics prevent true learning, in my experience.

Mnemonics are a stepping stone to true learning.


IMO

According to a wealth of educational research in all subject, mnemonics are in fact a stepping stone to true learning. Probably one of the least debatable things in educational and cognitive science.

Once I start to rely on a mnemonic device, I find it hard to automatically have the information, without consulting the device each time. I wonder if the educational research draws that distinction. With something like sight reading, that difference is enormous. But in something like safely executing a procedure in a factory, not so much.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:30 pm Once I start to rely on a mnemonic device, I find it hard to automatically have the information, without consulting the device each time. I wonder if the educational research draws that distinction. With something like sight reading, that difference is enormous. But in something like safely executing a procedure in a factory, not so much.

It's one of those things where having a mnemonic device almost guarantees that you'll achieve proficiency, but you need additional motivation to reach mastery. That's why I agreed that it is a "stepping stone" to true learning, but it is not the true learning itself.

So you are correct that having a mnemonic device is not going to be helpful in sightreading, but sighreading is itself what we call a "mastery skill." Mastery skills require mastery over another skill before they can be developed. What that mnemonic device will do is help Thom or another student get through a rehearsal, work up an etude, and practice their scales. If they do those things intentionally and repeatedly, then they will get to the point where the mnemonic is no longer needed.

In a word, mnemonic devices get you off the ground floor a lot faster, which should give you the energy to climb the rest of the way yourself. At least that's the best way I can describe without pulling out my old textbooks.

All that said, research is always done in aggregate and isn't guaranteed to be accurate for every single person. You might be the 1/10 dentists that don't recommend this type of toothpaste.

Thom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:12 am I know the names intellectually ...

I think Bruce is just saying that you already have most of the mnemonic. Just add one word. Maybe: "Clearly, Every Good Boy Does Fine"

cmccain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 6:04 pmYou might be the 1/10 dentists that don't recommend this type of toothpaste.

It may also be that as a child, I didn't use mnemonics. And as an adult, I'm stuck with a fully developed brain that just doesn't want to learn things. So I can't move past the mnemonics when I try.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 6:23 pm

Thom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:12 am I know the names intellectually ...

I think Bruce is just saying that you already have most of the mnemonic. Just add one word. Maybe: "Clearly, Every Good Boy Does Fine"

That helps, thanks.

We could even go further:

Clearly Every Good Boy Does Fine And Can Even Gain

And if you can hit all of those notes you are a better man than I.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:41 pm We could even go further:

Clearly Every Good Boy Does Fine And Can Even Gain

And if you can hit all of those notes you are a better man than I.

I don't think that I'll ever Gain!

Since I have a straight tenor I cannot play the C (Clearly), but I can play the G (Gain)

Good enough for most people: Cats Eat Gross Boogers

Thom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:59 pm Since I have a straight tenor I cannot play the C (Clearly), but I can play the G (Gain)

I think you missed the fact that I was describing upper ledger lines...

starting on

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:39 pm

Thom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:59 pm Since I have a straight tenor I cannot play the C (Clearly), but I can play the G (Gain)

I think you missed the fact that I was describing upper ledger lines...

starting on

Ledger lines above the bass clef staff:
Clearly Every Good Boy Does Fine And Can Even Gain

So "Clearly" = middle C (1st ledger line above the bass clef staff)
"Can" = two octaves above middle C
"Even" = 2 steps higher than "Can"
"Gain" = 2 steps higher than "Even"

My upper range (on a good day, back when) was "Fine." Not so secure any more.

I'd like to hear Thom play his "Gain"

Thom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:07 am ...below the bass clef staff

For below, since you have just a straight tenor, I'd suggest "Easy".

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:55 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:39 pm

I think you missed the fact that I was describing upper ledger lines...

starting on

Ledger lines above the bass clef staff:
Clearly Every Good Boy Does Fine And Can Even Gain

So "Clearly" = middle C (1st ledger line above the bass clef staff)
"Can" = two octaves above middle C
"Even" = 2 steps higher than "Can"
"Gain" = 2 steps higher than "Even"

My upper range (on a good day, back when) was "Fine." Not so secure any more.

I'd like to hear Thom play his "Gain"

I was talking from 2 below the BC to 3 above the BC, my mistake. I assumed bguttman was referring to a bass bone range. I mistook the mnemonics. Lol

I just stated again after a year layoff. My usable range at this time is E below the bass clef to G above the bass clef. I limit myself to this range while I am getting my chops back into shape. That is also the range of the Arbans exercises my instructor is having me practice. I apologize for my misunderstanding of the mnemonics mentioned above. Though "Clearly" the aforementioned mnemonics could be used for the range I just mentioned (C2 - G4?)

Thom wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 5:02 am I just stated again after a year layoff. My usable range at this time is E below the bass clef to G above the bass clef. I limit myself to this range while I am getting my chops back into shape. That is also the range of the Arbans exercises my instructor is having me practice. I apologize for my misunderstanding of the mnemonics mentioned above. Though "Clearly" the aforementioned mnemonics could be used for the range I just mentioned (C2 - G4?)

Thom,

I think you're "Good" to go.