TromboneChat

For Christmas, my family got me a nice used Bach 42B. I was pretty excited so i put my mouthpiece (12C) in to try it out. when i did, i fond that it uses large shanks instead of my small shank mouthpiece. I want to get a new mouthpiece not just so it would fit in my new bone, but also because my 12C feels a little too small for my face. i don't know much about this stuff since i'm barely on my third year of playing, but i have heard that finding that perfect mouthpiece is pretty hard. Any recommendations?

Best choice is a 6½AL or Schilke 50. This is a good first mouthpiece. If you find it isn't perfect for you you can try something a little bigger (5G) or smaller (Yamaha 47).

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2024 1:51 pm Best choice is a 6½AL or Schilke 50. This is a good first mouthpiece. If you find it isn't perfect for you you can try something a little bigger (5G) or smaller (Yamaha 47).

Yeah, I second that.

They used to come with a Bach 6 and 1/2AL,or at least they did when I got one in 1978. In later years they came with a 5G I think.

Faxx makes a copy of both. Should cost less than $50. Either would be a good choice.

6.5AL, 5GS, or 5G are great places begin. I have a like new Faxx 6.5AL that I'm not using if you're interested.

All of the above suggestions are good starting points, it depends on your embouchure type

but why the 42b ? They are a good solid pro horn along with the 88h, What musical ensembles are you currently playing in ? What are your musical aims?

Did you talk with your teacher about it?

If you don’t have a trombone teacher, get one , and worth having a lesson with a good pro teacher asking his/her advice

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 6:57 am All of the above suggestions are good starting points, it depends on your embouchure type

but why the 42b ? They are a good solid pro horn along with the 88h, What musical ensembles are you currently playing in ? What are your musical aims?

Did you talk with your teacher about it?

If you don’t have a trombone teacher, get one , and worth having a lesson with a good pro teacher asking his/her advice

Well, I got the 42b specifically because I found it at a good price (at least from what i've seen). It was 1800 dollars for one lightly used with no dents. I also did some pretty shallow research on good ones to buy and it was between a 36b and 42b. I found the 42b cheaper online so I bought it. I also did tell my directors about it right before buying, and from what I understood they said it was a pretty good deal and a pretty good horn. That's pretty much it

Right now i'm in 8th grade, and neither of my directors play mainly brass, one is a sax player and the other is a clarinet player. The high school I'm planning to go to next has a director that loves trombones from what I've heard, so I'm pretty sure he'll teach me a lot about things like this.
What I want to do with the trombone is to mostly play in jazz groups, and I really like solos too so that kinda fits in with that. I haven't thought about what I'll do with the music knowledge after high school but since you said it's a pretty good horn for professionals i might put it to use. Hope this answers your questions, 'cause I have no idea what I'm doing

whal3f4ll wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2024 11:22 am For Christmas, my family got me a nice used Bach 42B. I was pretty excited so i put my mouthpiece (12C) in to try it out. when i did, i fond that it uses large shanks instead of my small shank mouthpiece. I want to get a new mouthpiece not just so it would fit in my new bone, but also because my 12C feels a little too small for my face. i don't know much about this stuff since i'm barely on my third year of playing, but i have heard that finding that perfect mouthpiece is pretty hard. Any recommendations?

First, congrats on getting such an awesome Christmas present! I love me some 42B. Those are wonderful, professional quality horns, and if it's decent it should be all the horn you will ever need. But yeah, ya gotta ditch the idea of playing a 12C.

Aside from needing a mouthpiece that fits your face, you need one that fits the horn you're playing and the demands of the music you're playing. A 12C is really too small for any but the tiny peashooter horns out there. And, personally, I might choose a different mouthpiece for a marching band than I would a symphony orchestra, as the musical needs and sound quality required is different for each.

That 6 1/2AL or Schilke 50 that folks recommend are good default, general pieces to start with, as they are versatile enough that they can get by for any number of uses. Great to start with, and to move off of only if you find you have a particular musical need that the mouthpiece isn't meeting.

I related to your "too small for my face" comment. On my small bore tenor I play an 11C; on my large bore I play a 4G and 5G; and on bass I play a 1G for symphonic and a 2G for big band work. Those are huge changes in rim and cup sizes. And when I switch back to my small bore horn after playing large bore or bass, that 11C feels really tiny. But each one fits the horn it's inserted in. I always make sure to choose a mouthpiece that fits the horn before I consider the comfort of what I'm used to. A 12C, even if you could find a large shank one, absolutely fails to fit your new 42B.

My perspective is controversial around here and is not shared by everyone. I believe that everything important about my playing happens before the mouthpiece, anyway, so I prioritize matching the mouthpiece to the horn, and only then do I think about a rim that is most comfortable to play on.

whal3f4ll wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 9:57 am ...

What I want to do with the trombone is to mostly play in jazz groups, and I really like solos too so that kinda fits in with that. I haven't thought about what I'll do with the music knowledge after high school but since you said it's a pretty good horn for professionals i might put it to use. Hope this answers your questions, 'cause I have no idea what I'm doing

A Bach 42B is great for concert band and orchestra. I'd avoid marching with one for mostly ergonomic reasons, especially if you have to perform choreography. Marching band is pretty perilous to the health of your trombone.

For jazz band you can reliably play the 3rd part; and the 4th part for simpler tunes (other times you will need a double trigger bass). For 1st or 2nd you probably should be playing a small bore, so I'd recommend you keep your old horn for these applications, especially if it's a Yamaha 354 or AD-200.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 3:19 pm
For jazz band you can reliably play the 3rd part; and the 4th part for simpler tunes (other times you will need a double trigger bass). For 1st or 2nd you probably should be playing a small bore, so I'd recommend you keep your old horn for these applications, especially if it's a Yamaha 354 or AD-200.

I use a single trigger bass in a big band. Tho sometimes a double would make things easier, there is nothing I have not managed to play on the single.

There is a trend among amateur players to try to use large bore tenors with triggers in jazz bands. I don't know why. IMHO this is a terrible trend. A large bore makes it harder to play in jazz bands. You have less facility generally, and you usually don't get the core and sizzle needed for jazz bands.

But whatever. I'm a dinosaur. I'll be extinct soon enough and people can try to play jazz on sewer pipes.

tbdana wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 5:15 pm There is a trend among amateur players to try to use large bore tenors with triggers in jazz bands. I don't know why. IMHO this is a terrible trend. A large bore makes it harder to play in jazz bands. You have less facility generally, and you usually don't get the core and sizzle needed for jazz bands.

But whatever. I'm a dinosaur. I'll be extinct soon enough and people can try to play jazz on sewer pipes.

I agree. Stick with small bore (up to 0.508") for jazz & big band TB 1-3. Sounds better, blends better.

tbdana wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 5:15 pm There is a trend among amateur players to try to use large bore tenors with triggers in jazz bands. I don't know why. IMHO this is a terrible trend. A large bore makes it harder to play in jazz bands. You have less facility generally, and you usually don't get the core and sizzle needed for jazz bands.

But whatever. I'm a dinosaur. I'll be extinct soon enough and people can try to play jazz on sewer pipes.

Totally agree.

The worst thing is when high school or college band directors just don't even know the difference. They have no business calling themselves Jazz Ensemble Directors if they can't recognize that the music requires a different sound. Large bore trombones don't do service to the music at all.

Cmillar wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2024 7:01 am The worst thing is when high school or college band directors just don't even know the difference. They have no business calling themselves Jazz Ensemble Directors if they can't recognize that the music requires a different sound. Large bore trombones don't do service to the music at all.

That may be true about the music, but I doubt it's true about the band directors. Band class is school. It's about music education, much more so than getting the right sound. A lot of learning can happen even if you have the wrong horn.

I remember my father turning white when he found out the cost of an 88H. Is it really necessary to ask him to turn white again for a small bore?

I remember the pain of trying to march with my old horn (and 12c) with chops adapted for the Remington mouthpiece. Isn't high school a bit young to go on a compatible-mouthpiece safari?

I finally got the opportunity to play in a jazz band in 12th grade. Would a smallbore have made much of a difference in Easy Jazz Pak #12?

"I remember my father turning white when he found out the cost of an 88H. Is it really necessary to ask him to turn white again for a small bore?" (AtomicClock)

This was my experience in school also. I played in wind ensemble, brass quintet, field shows, parades, pep bands, and lead in the school jazz bands- all on my Olds 023 Opera. It was the only horn I had. Money was pretty tight in our family at the time, and getting the used Opera was a big deal for me.

Sure, a small bore would've sounded better for lead in the jazz bands, but the jazz bands were a small part of my playing. I could only have one horn, and the bigger horn fit in the majority of my situations.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:38 am ...
I remember my father turning white when he found out the cost of an 88H. Is it really necessary to ask him to turn white again for a small bore?...

This is part of the problem. Pushing kids into large bore doesn't help anyone. Too often large bore has been characterized as a grownup instrument and small bore is for children.

tbdana wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 5:15 pm There is a trend among amateur players to try to use large bore tenors with triggers in jazz bands. I don't know why. IMHO this is a terrible trend. A large bore makes it harder to play in jazz bands. You have less facility generally, and you usually don't get the core and sizzle needed for jazz bands.

But whatever. I'm a dinosaur. I'll be extinct soon enough and people can try to play jazz on sewer pipes.

I've noticed that some band directors seem to think that large bore = good horn (professional), while small bore = bad horn (student). Or some even think that you have to have a trigger to have a good horn.

JeffBone44 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2024 2:47 pm I've noticed that some band directors seem to think that large bore = good horn (professional), while small bore = bad horn (student). Or some even think that you have to have a trigger to have a good horn.

I think there's a general trend toward large bore trigger horns. I don't know why, or when it started, just that 30 years ago when I quit playing that wasn't happening. And sometime between then and when I started playing a year ago, it became a thing. In schools. In community groups. In jazz bands.

And large bore has gotten larger (kind of). There was a time when a .525 horn like the Bach 36 was considered a large bore symphony horn.

I think it parallels the increase in the size of pickup trucks.

Ahh, don’t ya just love those over done, under performing parking lot rumblers?

tbdana wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:45 pm I think there's a general trend toward large bore trigger horns. I don't know why, or when it started, just that 30 years ago when I quit playing that wasn't happening. And sometime between then and when I started playing a year ago, it became a thing. In schools. In community groups. In jazz bands.

And large bore has gotten larger (kind of). There was a time when a .525 horn like the Bach 36 was considered a large bore symphony horn.

I think it parallels the increase in the size of pickup trucks.

Having done my share of masterclasses, some adjudicating, working with high school/college jazz bands over the years, I've definitely heard and witnessed many trombone students going through the 'bro-speak' alluding to 'bigger is better' many times.

But, that trend has gotten worse over the last 20-30 years for sure. An unfortunate sign of the times.

Outside the LMS yesterday (where I checked out trombones). Speaks for itself.

tbdana wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:45 pm I think there's a general trend toward large bore trigger horns. I don't know why, or when it started, just that 30 years ago when I quit playing that wasn't happening. And sometime between then and when I started playing a year ago, it became a thing. In schools. In community groups. In jazz bands.

And large bore has gotten larger (kind of). There was a time when a .525 horn like the Bach 36 was considered a large bore symphony horn.

I believe that it wasn't until the late 1960s / early 1970s that 0.547" bore trombones (often with F-attachment) became de rigeur in most symphony orchestras (not just the "majors"). I was definitely part of that trend. But that wasn't then universal clear down to the high school level. What has happened since has been the dramatic growth of larger and heavier bass trombones - with two valves (which barely existed ~50 years ago).

Automobile engines, on the other hand, have shrunk radically. (Anyone remember the Olds 4-4-2 "muscle car" with a 6.5 liter V-8?)

“Automobile engines, on the other hand, have shrunk radically. (Anyone remember the Olds 4-4-2 "muscle car" with a 6.5 liter V-8?)”

10 miles per $.50 gallon. 2 doors.