TromboneChat

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:42 am**

What do you do with a bad horn?

I'm not talking about a horn that just doesn't suit you. No, I'm talking about a horn that's just BAD, and not economically fixable.

So now what do you do?

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:49 am**

Wrap stuff around the bell and mess with weight / counter weight to see if it can be improved. Not so much to salvage using the horn, but just to see what that does to how it plays.

It's also a good way to try mouthpieces that don't suit you. All of a sudden that mouthpiece you never use seems to work great on the horn you don't like.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:54 am**

Send it to the guy who wants DIY repair videos, as practice fodder.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 11:32 am**

Lamp. Seuss-a-phone. Spare parts. Decoration.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 11:54 am**

If it SHOULD be a good horn but just isn't, I would make careful measurements throughout and try to figure out why it's bad.
I did that with 2 horns - replaced the gooseneck & small tuning slide on one (success!), and the other is waiting for the same. One had a gooseneck that was much too big and the other much too small.
Could have been assembled with wrong parts, or just bad designs.

Or use it for parts. Like Texas-Horn-Trader on eBay.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 2:57 pm**

I gave a ‘52 SS 2B away when it turned out that an old undisclosed “restoration” effed up nearly every aspect of the horn.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:14 pm**

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2025 11:54 am If it SHOULD be a good horn but just isn't, I would make careful measurements throughout and try to figure out why it's bad.

Another way to do some of that is swap out parts with a good example of the same model to try to isolate the problem. I found the problem with a vintage Bach bass trombone that way. It was the leadpipe. Got that fixed and now it's a very good instrument.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:19 pm**

List it on eBay with full disclosure of what's wrong with it, and let someone else buy it. Then it's their problem.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:25 am**

Engrave "B A C" on the bell, then sell it for a ridiculously inflated price?

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:37 am**

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:54 am Send it to the guy who wants DIY repair videos, as practice fodder.

I actually did give a couple horns to an aspiring tech to practice on. There was also a Grand Rapids York that I turned over to John Sandhagen to part out.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:46 am**

I often wonder that when seeing horns advertised, or at flea markets - old, smelly, dented, not a known brand. Or, older Bundy or Blessings that don't look too bad, but the seller wants too much $.
Do they end up at the curb? Admittingly, I would have a hard time with that. Every old horn has a story to tell...
On the other hand, there are probably old Bach Strads and other sought-after horns that were tossed in the dumpster after the owner passed away.

I have had several given to me over the years, and have spent (arguably, too much) time cleaning and sprucing them up just to give away or donate. Some went to local high-schoolers who played multiple instruments, and wanted to add trombone. One was donated to a family who was collecting instruments to send to Africa.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:43 am**

My Olds Ambassador ended up in Cuba.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 11:10 am**

I hung my trashed 3b on the wall outside. It is art now.

It reminds me to treat things better.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 11:21 am**

Bach5G wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:43 am My Olds Ambassador ended up in Cuba.

Hmmm. Most Olds Ambassadors are not "terrible."

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:24 pm**

Just consider it to be... an ambassador...

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:00 pm**

I've seen a large number of student horns with significant dents in the handslide crook. Are horns like this worth fixing? I'm not very knowledgable about repair but this seems like the most difficult part of a standard trombone to fix. My local tech doesn't seem to like to work on handslide crooks.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:27 pm**

dbwhitaker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:00 pm I've seen a large number of student horns with significant dents in the handslide crook. Are horns like this worth fixing? I'm not very knowledgable about repair but this seems like the most difficult part of a standard trombone to fix. My local tech doesn't seem to like to work on handslide crooks.

If it's just minor dents, you might be able to run dent balls into the crook and tap out the dents, but it's tough because a dent ball the size of the crook won't make it past the ferrules, which are always constricted from the soldering. But it can still be done with a slightly smaller dent ball.

If it's one of those cases where they smashed in the bumper knob, the guard, and the crook, you would have to remove the crook from the slide, then remove the guard from the crook (and hope the waterkey doesn't fall off when you heat the guard), then repair the guard, then take the dent out of the crook, then re-attach the guard to the crook (which probably won't fit correctly anymore after being distorted), then re-install the crook, and likely have to do a slide alignment, since the crook was probably bent to a larger radius. And if the horn was trashed that badly, I'd give it a 90% chance that the slide action was already terrible, so probably add an entire slide overhaul to the list.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:39 pm**

Add the possibility of red rot to that.

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2025 3:19 pm**

First clean the horn then if it is still a bad horn then check the leadpipe.

I had a terrible New York Bach 6 model VII I bought from a shop here 10 years ago. I payed $400. Didn't know why the response was so bad because it shouldn't be. When I cleaned it I found the leadpipe had cracks in it. Fixed it. I got a new leadpipe installed and the horn become a great horn. Most horns I've bought of Ebay became good horns after I cleaned them. It's been the most common and easy fix.

/Tom

Posted: **Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:09 am**

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:27 pm
dbwhitaker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:00 pm I've seen a large number of student horns with significant dents in the handslide crook. Are horns like this worth fixing? I'm not very knowledgable about repair but this seems like the most difficult part of a standard trombone to fix. My local tech doesn't seem to like to work on handslide crooks.
If it's just minor dents, you might be able to run dent balls into the crook and tap out the dents, but it's tough because a dent ball the size of the crook won't make it past the ferrules, which are always constricted from the soldering. But it can still be done with a slightly smaller dent ball.

If it's one of those cases where they smashed in the bumper knob, the guard, and the crook, you would have to remove the crook from the slide, then remove the guard from the crook (and hope the waterkey doesn't fall off when you heat the guard), then repair the guard, then take the dent out of the crook, then re-attach the guard to the crook (which probably won't fit correctly anymore after being distorted), then re-install the crook, and likely have to do a slide alignment, since the crook was probably bent to a larger radius. And if the horn was trashed that badly, I'd give it a 90% chance that the slide action was already terrible, so probably add an entire slide overhaul to the list.

It seems that a severely smashed crook on a student horn means the slide is "totalled". I'd expect the cost of an entire slide overhaul to exceed the value of the horn.

Posted: **Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:31 pm**

dbwhitaker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:09 am
brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:27 pm
If it's just minor dents, you might be able to run dent balls into the crook and tap out the dents, but it's tough because a dent ball the size of the crook won't make it past the ferrules, which are always constricted from the soldering. But it can still be done with a slightly smaller dent ball.

If it's one of those cases where they smashed in the bumper knob, the guard, and the crook, you would have to remove the crook from the slide, then remove the guard from the crook (and hope the waterkey doesn't fall off when you heat the guard), then repair the guard, then take the dent out of the crook, then re-attach the guard to the crook (which probably won't fit correctly anymore after being distorted), then re-install the crook, and likely have to do a slide alignment, since the crook was probably bent to a larger radius. And if the horn was trashed that badly, I'd give it a 90% chance that the slide action was already terrible, so probably add an entire slide overhaul to the list.
It seems that a severely smashed crook on a student horn means the slide is "totalled". I'd expect the cost of an entire slide overhaul to exceed the value of the horn.

I didn't mention that sometimes you can just replace the whole crook assembly, so that could be cost effective in certain situations. And some shops might have the parts lying around if they get a high volume of student horns in.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:19 am**

In the small town I grew up in, the junior high band director told parents to never throw away a bad or damaged horn. Put it down in the driveway and drive over it instead. Several times.

Because, if it went to the dump, someone would rescue it, and it would show up in his band with some poor student struggling with it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:49 am**

timothy42b wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:19 am In the small town I grew up in, the junior high band director told parents to never throw away a bad or damaged horn. Put it down in the driveway and drive over it instead. Several times.

Because, if it went to the dump, someone would rescue it, and it would show up in his band with some poor student struggling with it.

Today they show up on eBay or Craigslist.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:18 pm**

I feel like I horn that you still regularly play is most always fixable by a tech. I like to maintain my things. I supposed if I didn't feel that way, I'd donate it!

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